"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Give me the added resolution ANY day.

I don’t know how many minutes of IMAX capture will be in the final cut of Michael B.’s Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen but, I can tell you that he and Steven S. were watching a cut of this upcoming movie in a theater (non-IMAX) on the Sony lot about 2 weeks ago.

A theater which is pirate-proof.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Grubert

"What's a millimeter?"

Not nearly enough.

[SquidPuppet]

Rossi is on pole.

Pray for dry.

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Large format doesn't have a lot of traction any more, as evidenced by its on-life-support condition in production (admittedly looking healthier in the last couple of years than the previous 10). If you consider the youth-oriented target market for much of Hollywood's output, there's probably a pretty damn small number of "viable" potential audience members who've ever even seen real 70mm projection.

I don't agree.

The truth is the general public by and large hasn't been offered a legitimate choice about large format versus 35mm or digital. On top of that, a great deal of the general public has never even experienced film done right in a movie theater setting.

For the past nearly 40 years most 70mm use has consisted of the mere blow-up variety -not true 65mm/70mm generated imagery.

IMAX "DMR" conversions of Hollywood movies are merely blow-ups, not real 70mm or IMAX. The DMR converted feature still has the same level of detail one would see in a 35mm or 2K digital presentation -the image is just blown up much bigger. The Dark Knight is the only feature among those blow-ups to have some of its principal photography filmed in large format.

The same problem was present in all those 35mm to 70mm blow-ups made from the 1960s to 1990s. Most of the blow-ups were merely created to offer the 6 track magnetic sound. Visually, the differences between 35mm and 70mm blow up prints were marginal. The 70mm dupes were printed in real time instead of high speed and had some noticeable improvement in color.

A true 65mm/70mm feature like Lawrence of Arabia or Baraka boasts a lot more image detail. I consider the difference between 35mm and 70mm to be similar to the jump between SD NSTC television and 1080p HDTV. The difference is tremendous. The sad thing is the general public has been offered very few good quality movies to see in that format.

Far and Away was arguably pretty silly, and not the best example of 70mm film use. Tron had limited viewer appeal; it was way over the heads of most people back in 1982. 70mm all but died by the end of the 1960s because it only seemed to be used on bible epics and musicals. It wasn't used on mainstream action movies and stuff like that.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

No, it was a truly informative, gentlemanly and knowledgeable post.
Is that a picture of you?

Yeah, although it's a couple years old. I need to have Brad Miller (the F-T administrator) update it with a more current picture -like what I have on my Facebook page. I'm considering buying a new D-SLR body (the Canon EOS 5D Mark II) and the razor sharp 135mm L-series lens. That combo will be great for some portrait work.

[Jeff Kleist]

The IMAX version, even the blowups do well for a long long time. If it's something like 3D or Dark Knight, it's HUGE. They still have sellouts on occasion in week 4. Least round here

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

A theater which is pirate-proof.

Like Alcatraz was "escape-proof"?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I don't agree.

The truth is the general public by and large hasn't been offered a legitimate choice about large format versus 35mm or digital. On top of that, a great deal of the general public has never even experienced film done right in a movie theater setting.

For the past nearly 40 years most 70mm use has consisted of the mere blow-up variety -not true 65mm/70mm generated imagery.

IMAX "DMR" conversions of Hollywood movies are merely blow-ups, not real 70mm or IMAX. The DMR converted feature still has the same level of detail one would see in a 35mm or 2K digital presentation -the image is just blown up much bigger. The Dark Knight is the only feature among those blow-ups to have some of its principal photography filmed in large format.

The same problem was present in all those 35mm to 70mm blow-ups made from the 1960s to 1990s. Most of the blow-ups were merely created to offer the 6 track magnetic sound. Visually, the differences between 35mm and 70mm blow up prints were marginal. The 70mm dupes were printed in real time instead of high speed and had some noticeable improvement in color.

A true 65mm/70mm feature like Lawrence of Arabia or Baraka boasts a lot more image detail. I consider the difference between 35mm and 70mm to be similar to the jump between SD NSTC television and 1080p HDTV. The difference is tremendous. The sad thing is the general public has been offered very few good quality movies to see in that format.

Far and Away was arguably pretty silly, and not the best example of 70mm film use. Tron had limited viewer appeal; it was way over the heads of most people back in 1982. 70mm all but died by the end of the 1960s because it only seemed to be used on bible epics and musicals. It wasn't used on mainstream action movies and stuff like that.

This is an odd post, Bobby. You quote me and say you disagree with me and then proceed to completely re-iterate and reinforce my comment.

I guess you disagree with me so much, you round the horn and come back around to total agreement.

[Doctorossi]

Hey, Penton and Squid (and, of course, anyone else who wants to chime in), do you have a quick opinion on Moto2?

Personally, as much as the Aprilia 250s make my heart sing, I think something four-stroke 600ish is beyond inevitable and I'm pretty well down with it. However, I absolutely detest the spec engine idea, so I don't know where that leaves me as far as interest.

I'm very curious about your takes.

[Bobby Henderson]

I'm not reinforcing your argument at all. Your point sounds like people in the general movie-going public are specifically choosing digital 3D over large format/70mm. You said large format doesn't have any "traction" anymore and basically placed the blame for this at the feet of the younger theater audience members.

My point is the public is not being given a legitimate choice at all regardless of their age. Additionally, the public doesn't know much of anything at all about this technology to make any sort of informed choice about 3D versus 70mm. Worse still, much of the public has never seen great film presentation quality.

The only people making any sort of choice at all in this are the movie distributors. They're the ones deciding whether a movie will be filmed on 35mm or shot electronically with HDTV cameras. They could revive 65mm/70mm production if they wanted to do so. It wouldn't be difficult at all to put 5-perf 70mm capability into the booths of at least a few dozen significant movie theaters. The cost wouldn't be anywhere near as high as the price for installing 2K digital projection or even RealD or Dolby 3D. But the distributors don't feel like doing that.

Movie distributors can't even take advantage of breakthroughs in surround sound technology. DTS' last film sound processor, the XD-10, has seen its top end capabilities go largely unused. The unit comes stock with 8 channel capability and supports up to 24/96 uncompressed 8 channel audio. No theatrical DTS releases have utilized that, not even output from Universal Studios. It's all still lossy 5.1 audio. The DTS XD-10 can even be expanded to support 10.2 channel audio and can top out at 24 channel operation for special venue purposes. Again, all that capability has gone unused. No one even tried to use it.

And that sort of ethic is why 70mm is where it is. The general public has no say in the matter.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I'm not reinforcing your argument at all.

Okay, then what's really going on is probably that you are just making my point much more clearly than I did. What you've said is an elaboration of what I was trying to say.

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Your point sounds like people in the general movie-going public are specifically choosing digital 3D over large format/70mm.

Yes, and I think this is true. And I think it's because they really don't know what they're missing since you can hardly find a 70mm-capable house anymore, let alone a 65mm-originated movie to play in it.

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

You said large format doesn't have any "traction" anymore and basically placed the blame for this at the feet of the younger theater audience members.

You misunderstand me. I place no blame at the feet of the the younger audience members- they are the victims.

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

My point is the public is not being given a legitimate choice at all regardless of their age.

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

The only people making any sort of choice at all in this are the movie distributors.

This is precisely what I'm trying to say (but may be not doing a very good job of). The reason I brought up the young audience is because they're both the prime target of advertising for premium presentation and the people least likely to have had much exposure to the benefits and value of 70mm. I have little doubt that they would value the experience and appreciate the difference, but until they've been exposed to it, I also have little doubt that telling them "It's in 70mm!" won't mean much to them. They lack the education to know what 70mm is and why they might want it. Meanwhile, 3D, as an abstract concept, is popularly familiar and quite simple to grasp- it explains itself to the uninformed. They may not have seen modern, digital 3D yet, or know specifically the technology being offered when told "It's in 3D!", but they can grok the gist of the concept without needing to know about film formats their daddy used to watch.

[Bobby Henderson]

Nevertheless, 70mm is a technology that works and works very well. It may not have the glamor of that bullshit meaningless "digital" buzzword I'm so tired of hearing anymore. However, 70mm can be used on a much wider variety of movie genres than 3D.

I don't see 3D working on a Merchant-Ivory style English period piece costume drama geared for earning lots of Oscar nominations. So far the 3D thing has been geared to CGI animated movies, a couple of live action movies for kids and "dying teenager movie" slasher films for adults. 70mm can be used on serious dramas and historical epics or crowd pleasing action films and science fiction movies.

70mm is also not prone to various technical problems that plaque the current digital 3D systems.

70mm can be used on giant sized screens. RealD and Dolby 3D cannot. The digital 3D systems are limited to modest screen sizes and auditoriums with more modest seat counts. Even in modest sized auditoriums the brightness levels with digital 3D are not nearly as good as they should be. Good 35mm film projection should have 16 foot lamberts of brightness at the center and no less than 12 foot lamberts at the corners. The digital 3D systems can't get above 10 fl at the center.

Proper screen brightness hasn't been important to movie theaters in quite some time. Just look at all the giant-sized screens that went up in the heyday of the stadium seated theater building craze that took place in the mid 1990s. None of those houses had 70mm capability. The 35mm projection on screens as big as 70' across was a laughable joke. Just plain dim and blurry image quality. Yuck. It takes a 70mm projector to properly illuminate a giant sized screen. Certain digital projectors can properly light up a huge screen -but the trouble is you can see that pixel grid pretty easily too.

Viewers cannot sit close to the screen at a digital 3D movie without all sorts of convergence problems happening. Take the knitting needle sight gag in Coraline. It looks great if you sitting in the middle rows of the auditorium and farther back (and up) toward the projector port. If you're sitting in the first few rows that knitting needle splits in two as it comes forward through that fabric (and you get a bit of eye strain as an added bonus).

I think digital 3D is pretty cool overall. I loved U23D. However, I think 70mm production would provide more lasting benefits. Not only does it make the theatrical experience better, it makes movies on Blu-ray look better (sharper imagery, richer color) and the movie studio has a far more future proof original negative than something shot on 35mm or worse yet, current HDTV quality "digital."

[Doctorossi]

That's all well and good, Bobby, but I'm not arguing the relative merits of 70mm and 3D as production/presentation technologies; I'm talking about their viability/value as marketable "value-added" theatrical premiums. I think the self-explanatory nature of 3D is a huge trump card, along the lines of "color" or "sound", in these stakes.

And, on a side note, I disagree with you about 3D's theoretical genre limitations. There will be Merchant/Ivory-style productions shot in 3D. It'll take a while, but 3D will beat the "gimmick" perception barrier. It's already started.

[Stacey Spears]

b.t.w. – where is Spears?

It's been a long week and I did not even attend NAB.

Who did the authoring on your calibration disc?....I’m referring to the individual, not the company.

Jay Chumley did the authoring with Scenarist 5.0.

The navigation was my doing. I wanted to use the disc without repositioning my hand on the remote. Left and right arrows will move between patterns in a section. Up and down will display or dismiss help. Because we this, we were not able to use the pop-up and chapter buttons. I wanted both enabled. We should be able to offer both next time around.

There were a lot of things I wanted to do, but it seems BD-J is required to do them. For example, I wanted to use the four color buttons.

I wanted to gray out patterns, like the SD patterns, when HD was selected. This was even more graphic work, which we did not have time for. The OPPO was suppose to ship in November, so we had a short runway on authoring. That and CSI was a higher priority.

A problem with Scenarist is that it can't take a single frame video and set a timer on it. You have to encode static images as running video. This can be done in Blu-print, but Giant does not own Blu-print. When I spoke with Sonic, they wanted me to use their still frame tool, which basically takes a single frame and encodes into MPEG-2 as running video.

Any issues?

[Knight-Errant]

Thanks for making the disc. I used it on two TVs and they look better than ever. I'm a happy customer.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Hey, Penton and Squid (and, of course, anyone else who wants to chime in), do you have a quick opinion on Moto2?

Personally, as much as the Aprilia 250s make my heart sing, I think something four-stroke 600ish is beyond inevitable and I'm pretty well down with it. However, I absolutely detest the spec engine idea, so I don't know where that leaves me as far as interest.

I'm very curious about your takes.

Over all I dont like Moto 2. But hey, I was heartbroken when the 500s were banned. Moto 2 should differ from MotoGP more. It should also differ more from Supersport and available street bikes. Moto 2 should be 500cc NOT 600cc. The engines should be limited to 2 cylinders, any configuration accepted. I dont like the spec engine in THIS series. In some other junior series, fine, not at the pinnacle of World Championships. It should remain a prototype class where manufacturers still compete IMO. Sadly, we will see the 125s become 350(?) four-strokes in the future.

44 years ago I carefully poured my first few ounces of oil into a five gallon can of gas. With the help of my dad I shook that can and poured some into a tiny beat up second hand Yamaha. Moments later, for the first time in my life, after instruction form my Dad and Uncle, I released the clutch and saw God. The memories of those SMELLS and SOUNDS are still sacred to me.

I still ride Japanese bikes (R1) way too fast , but only becaue there is no superior (two-stroke ) alternative available.

So yeah, valves and camshafts have NO place in motorcycle racing in my admittedly stuborn head. I still follow racing because of its heart, the competetive spirit to beat the other guy, but it aint the same. Its been tamed too far. Rossi et al would agree.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

Hey Penton!

Somewhat out of the blue, but I met a friend out on my travels who wants to get into directing/producing, she's already done a few ameteur documentaries which were well received in the UK (PM me if you want to know which ones). She doesn't want any helping hands from me, but I don't think she would be averse to advice from a grand master like yourself...

You do know that my wife occasionally reads this thread.
( I did get great husband points though for my spiel on Siena and the YouTube Lady in Red post )

Where would you say your friend is located on the learning curve?
In other words, would this info be useful, or considered old hat for her…….
http://www.moviemaker.com/producing/...king_20090415/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

44 years ago I carefully poured my first few ounces of oil into a five gallon can of gas. With the help of my dad I shook that can and poured some into a tiny beat up second hand Yamaha. Moments later, for the first time in my life, after instruction form my Dad and Uncle, I released the clutch and saw God. The memories of those SMELLS and SOUNDS are still sacred to me....

Castrol bean oil………zee best motorcycle smell.
“The smell of victory!”.

Zee best sound?
“Ring-ding-ding-ding”.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

This can be done in Blu-print, but Giant does not own Blu-print......

I thought Jay was at ‘1K’?
I would imagine that he never reads some of the ‘dnr’ forums, just to keep his sanity intact.

I haven’t had the opportunity to use your disc yet and just saw a snippet of it as a colleague was playing with it. Seems like all your customers are happy though.

P.S.
Regarding CSI……did you mean as a fan of the show, or did you do something professionally with The Post Group, or some aspect of the TV production?

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Castrol bean oil………zee best motorcycle smell.
“The smell of victory!”.

Zee best sound?
“Ring-ding-ding-ding”.

If we have to explain, they wont understand.

Edit: Moto GP, top three riders separated by only 3 points. Jerez in 7 days.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

If we have to explain, they wont understand.

Then watch and listen …………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmXWA5NOlfg