"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira

Well, you can compare the first release of THE FIFTH ELEMENT with the remastered re-release.
Vincent

Hi Vincent.
That is true and in addition, the first Blu-ray version of The Fifth Element had its HD master made from a flying spot telecine using a CRT display as the monitor…….and later Q/C’ed with a CRT display.
The re-issued Blu-ray version had its HD master sourced from a state-of-the-art datacine using an LCD as the mastering monitor………and subsequently Q/C’ed with an LCD as well as a plasma.

Only zee best for you guys.

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by wallendo

Anything worth doing is worth doing right (my two cents).

There is no good reason not to do a new scan, despite the cost, since a new scan not only provides a better blu-ray image, but also serves as a high resolution digital archive of the film.
...
On the other hand, if I was a studio executive, I probably wouldn't authorize a new scan of "Ernest Goes To Camp"

Well, yes it comes to dollars and cents. Probably there is no choice other than using the existing scan unless a good case can be built on strategic reasons to ensure blu-ray quality and reputation.

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

So, put another way, a 1080 scan from today is so much better than a 1080 scan from the late 1990s that blu-ray afficianods would complain? Wow.

Using the term "scan" for the old techniques versus the new is sort of missing the point. A lot of the old HD masters were not derived from film scans. Rather, they were created using a system not far removed from pointing a film projector at a video camera.

When I think of telecine, I think of equipment I saw at Far East Network in Iwakuni, Japan back in the late 1970s. My father, a retired Marine (not "former Marine"), did radio and TV work at the Marine Corps base there when I was just a little kid. Some of the news footage was shot on film. Some of the movies shown on the AFRTS (Armed Forces Radio and Television Service) TV station where projected via film and converted on the fly into video for broadcast. At the time I thought that stuff was very cool. Today it is just plain crude, museum piece gear compared to the modern technology of today.

The concept of carefully doing a digital scan of an entire motion picture is a relatively new concept. In the early 1990s such techniques were used only for CGI effects shots. Everything else was done "old school." The use of digital intermediate (scanning an entire movie and then processing its "color timing" in the digital realm) arrived in the beginning of this decade.

Movies half a century old or even older can be processed using modern digital intermediate. Results can be impressive. I think running the film elements slowly through a film scanner is more kind to fragile film elements than attempting to play the film through an older system set up for the film to be run in real time. Just another reason why most any movie released on Blu-ray should be sourced from a datacine and DI derived master.

[Penton-Man]

Attention “STARSCREAM”
I “unofficially” posted this P.S., yesterday afternoon……….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...rt#post2306622

This morning I awake, and I see it is finally "official"…………
https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3398

What can I say? Ah, it’s like a gift.
It’s like I can’t control it.

For a little background on Ron and Lou, esp. colorist Lou Levinson, whom many in the community consider to be one of the godfathers of digital colorists, read this….
http://www.studiodaily.com/blog/?p=736

Something that I think the above article doesn’t mention is that Lou has digitally mastered countless feature films, among some of the most notable being…..

Apocalypse Now
E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
Forrest Gump
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade,
Jurassic Park
Saving Private Ryan
Schindler's List

You guys could not have a more qualified team on this project.

[aramis109]

Pretty exciting news both for blu-ray and movie lovers in general methinks. The archival capabilities are intriguing to say the least. I'd love to see that whole list come to blu-ray!

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Something that I think the above article doesn’t mention is that Lou has digitally mastered countless feature films, among some of the most notable being…..

Apocalypse Now
E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
Forrest Gump
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade,
Jurassic Park
Saving Private Ryan
Schindler's List

You guys could not have a more qualified team on this project.

Does this mean what I think it means? All of those Spielberg films plus Apocalypse Now & Gump are going through the same process as reported for Minority Report?

My expectations of those future Blus just went way up...

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Attention “STARSCREAM”
I “unofficially” posted this P.S., yesterday afternoon……….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...rt#post2306622

This morning I awake, and I see it is finally "official"…………
https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3398

What can I say? Ah, it’s like a gift.
It’s like I can’t control it.

For a little background on Ron and Lou, esp. colorist Lou Levinson, whom many in the community consider to be one of the godfathers of digital colorists, read this….
http://www.studiodaily.com/blog/?p=736

Something that I think the above article doesn’t mention is that Lou has digitally mastered countless feature films, among some of the most notable being…..

Apocalypse Now
E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
Forrest Gump
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade,
Jurassic Park
Saving Private Ryan
Schindler's List

You guys could not have a more qualified team on this project.

Are these guys better than Lowry Digital? Or do they do different things?

[Jeff Kleist]

Think of Lowry more like ILM, they pioneered a lot of this stuff, but it doesn't mean that others can't do similar things

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Esox50

Does this mean what I think it means? All of those Spielberg films plus Apocalypse Now & Gump are going through the same process as reported for Minority Report?

My expectations of those future Blus just went way up...

No, those are just some of the films colorist Levinson has worked on in all formats, including LD and DVD.

He also did the THX CAV LaserDiscs of the Star Wars Trilogy.

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

No, those are just some of the films colorist Levinson has worked on in all formats, including LD and DVD.

He also did the THX CAV LaserDiscs of the Star Wars Trilogy.

Way to kill my little party, pal.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Esox50

Way to kill my little party, pal.

Cue the "Wah whaaaaarrrhg" sound effect....

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Pretty exciting news both for blu-ray and movie lovers in general methinks.

I have guarded optimism as to how Minority Report will be received by some in the Blu-ray community, despite the world class mastering personnel involved in the project.

You see........some Blu-ray watchers are sharpness freaks.
You’ve heard the rhetoric before, i.e. -
“There’s not much detail and it doesn’t look sharp” with the invariable conclusion that the Blu-ray or the HD master is old or “crap” or whatever.

Well informed movie watchers should realize from the get-go that a lot of Minority Report is diffused (mostly with black net) so it won’t be super-sharp and in fact, there will be halation with the bright imagery. Unless this post provides a heads-up to some, I wouldn’t be surprised if some folks misinterpret the halation for edge enhancement, esp. when it occurs around actors’ heads in one scene I’m familiar with.

[abintra]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I have guarded optimism as to how Minority Report will be received by some in the Blu-ray community, despite the world class mastering personnel involved in the project.

You see........some Blu-ray watchers are sharpness freaks.
You’ve heard the rhetoric before, i.e. -
“There’s not much detail and it doesn’t look sharp” with the invariable conclusion that the Blu-ray or the HD master is old or “crap” or whatever.

Well informed movie watchers should realize from the get-go that a lot of Minority Report is diffused (mostly with black net) so it won’t be super-sharp and in fact, there will be halation with the bright imagery. Unless this post provides a heads-up to some, I wouldn’t be surprised if some folks misinterpret the halation for edge enhancement, esp. when it occurs around actors’ heads in one scene I’m familiar with.

The more qualified and knowledgeable people that are involved with things such as making the releases as authentic to the source as possible and providing reviews and transfer information via various outlets, the better the industry and consumers of its products will be.

As with most things, a shift towards more qualified voices disseminating information on what makes a quality transfer, versus a manipulated one in order to appeal to a specific demographic or taste, would be most welcome. I'd imagine it might even be welcome by those that currently judge a transfer by some other criteria.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well informed movie watchers should realize from the get-go that a lot of Minority Report is diffused (mostly with black net) so it won’t be super-sharp and in fact, there will be halation with the bright imagery. Unless this post provides a heads-up to some, I wouldn’t be surprised if some folks misinterpret the halation for edge enhancement, esp. when it occurs around actors’ heads in one scene I’m familiar with.

It was also shot Super35 and the whole film was "bleached" to give it that cold, gritty look favored by Mr. Kaminski.

[Jeff Kleist]

Speaking of film people, I wanted to highlight something I ran across the other day

A local guy does an internet show called "The Angry Video Game Nerd", but he has a side thing in horror and film in general, and his put up this ode to his 16mm collection

http://www.cinemassacre.com/new/?p=2688

Even tho they're not handling them right, the love of the experience of film, warts and all is really great. A bunch of my friends got piles of cartoons and other shows that the local stations dumped their 16mm prints of when they went over to 1-inch. They've got better prints than a lot of the DVDs were made out of of stuff like Astro Boy or Star Blazers.

[Constitution 101]

Originally Posted by abintra

The more qualified and knowledgeable people that are involved with things such as making the releases as authentic to the source as possible and providing reviews and transfer information via various outlets, the better the industry and consumers of its products will be.

As with most things, a shift towards more qualified voices disseminating information on what makes a quality transfer, versus a manipulated one in order to appeal to a specific demographic or taste, would be most welcome. I'd imagine it might even be welcome by those that currently judge a transfer by some other criteria.

I'd be curious 'bout all your guys opinion on something. If you look at the "average" review of Gladiator or Patton, they're given RAVE reviews as far as picture quality. Yet those tend to be the ones most cinefiles deride due DNR, EE, etc. Why would the industry stop doing something that the large majority of consumers THINK is a big improvement on the product, whether it's true or not? Perception is reality sometimes in consumer electronics(if I can hang my tv on the wall it must be advanced, right?).

[Deciazulado]

DNR: Blasphemy!
Grain: Dirt!
Flat: Soft and blurry!
Sharpened: Evil EE!

[Vincent Pereira]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...

Something that I think the above article doesn’t mention is that Lou has digitally mastered countless feature films, among some of the most notable being…..

Apocalypse Now
E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
Forrest Gump
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade,
Jurassic Park
Saving Private Ryan
Schindler's List

You guys could not have a more qualified team on this project.

Lou Levinson also did the film-to-tape transfer for the classic Criterion LaserDisc of BLADE RUNNER, which was a stunningly beautiful release in its day. I seem to recall that Paul Thomas Anderson insisted on working with him for several of his film-to-tape transfers, as well.

Vincent

[Vincent Pereira]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

It was also shot Super35 and the whole film was "bleached" to give it that cold, gritty look favored by Mr. Kaminski.

Not only bleached, but filmed using Kodak's grainy, now-discontinued fast 800ASA filmstock*, which was then pushed in the processing. The result is all that beautiful grain in the final (very underrated IMO) film.

Vincent

* Which was also used to shoot DONNIE DARKO.

[abintra]

Originally Posted by Constitution 101

If you look at the "average" review of Gladiator or Patton, they're given RAVE reviews as far as picture quality. Yet those tend to be the ones most cinefiles deride due DNR, EE, etc. Why would the industry stop doing something that the large majority of consumers THINK is a big improvement on the product, whether it's true or not?

Do people think those post processing techniques are an improvement or are they just content with the end result without realizing what something might look without them (or from a higher quality master)? Haven't looked all the reviews up but seems even the ones that were positive still thought the extended scenes looked better than the rest.

Especially for high profile titles, studios are going to eventually create quality masters for them (never understood why they saved the masters that contained all the post processing rather than before those were added since it just means more cost and effort in the long run.. might as well do something right the first time) so hopefully the people responsible will eventually listen to the people they hire that know how to best handle them.