"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

BEHOLD! Here I am, a shark chumming the waters with food for thought!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post18433689

And I quote:



Feed on the chum, my pretties.... FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!

Is that really you? Imo you picked about the worst thread for this as Saving Private Ryan was indeed intentionally shot to look the way it does, grain an all.

With the tools available to filmmakers today modern films would have more visible grain only if this was intended or an accepted tradeoff as there is always the option to shoot digitally in order to have no grain at all or to use low grain film stock that is also available today or to reduce grain when going from film to DI.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Paperwork comes with the screeners

Good to know, so the paperwork came with the LOTR trilogy but not with the other two?

[Jeff Kleist]

No, paperwork comes with all screeners. Perhaps if certain individuals hadn't found it necessary to start shitfits then they could have continued to escape notice. You only have to apply those kinds of clauses when you actually know it's going on you see. And of course, had WB actually supplied the copies used by certain websites or people like Xylon, then they would have been bound by those agreements as well.

With the tools available to filmmakers today modern films would have more visible grain only if this was intended or an accepted tradeoff as there is always the option to shoot digitally in order to have no grain at all or to use low grain film stock that is also available today or to reduce grain when going from film to DI.

With video you get CCD noise. There is no way to acquire images without some kind of noise. Steps can be taken to minimize it, but there's no way to just pop a noise free image

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

Is that really you?

No, it's not my post... I'm not the chum (or chummy, it seems), I'm the one feeding you guys so that you start a feeding frenzy!

Jeez, you should watch Discovery Chanel more...

Clearly two early on a Monday to get y'all riled up. Alas...

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

If anyone bothered to read a Warner press release on its Blu-ray titles, it clearly states "no screen captures," so they are just enforcing a written policy that they have. They aren't singling out these titles.

It seems as if they are though. Two releases out of hundreds seems odd to me.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

It seems as if they are though. Two releases out of hundreds seems odd to me.

Hmm, is that perhaps a new policy? I wouldn't be surprised if they are irritated by cherry picked screen grabs used to to encourage people to boycott products at certain forums.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

It seems as if they are though. Two releases out of hundreds seems odd to me.

It is funny that they're choosing to enforce it on these titles specifically. But I think most will find they look pretty good and the boy is crying wolf again.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

...Penton, just for historical sake (and cuz I think it gives you even more credence at times like this, towelboy job aside), what were your public reactions to the original Fifth Element release?

My only “public reaction” was to essentially confirm in a mainstream (non-Insider) thread the rumor (first reported in Sound and Vision magazine) that indeed there was the intention by SPHE to re-release a new Blu-ray version of The Fifth Element having superior PQ to the original release. I also mentioned (in my own whimsical way) that SPHE was listening to consumers and now trying harder. I remember the posting quite well, as I made it from my home at the end of July ’06 just as my wife and I were getting ready to leave for the airport on vacation. A new master was completed later around Dec. of that year, under the supervision of someone from paidgeek’s team.

I never really posted anything about the picture quality of the original Blu-ray release prior to that confirmation. I was simply a spectator listening as to whether there was some validity to the online complaints. But, that dog don’t hunt anymore, as these days, it seems just about some ‘online expert with an opinion’ finds something wrong with just about every Blu-ray title which comes down the pike. Be it grain, contrast, color, edition/cut, packaging, whatever.

Not to sound like I am making excuses for the mastering supervisor but, just to set the record straight. You guys had us at a disadvantage with that title (TFE). You see, the master used for the original Blu-ray release was QC’ed with a small CRT display, which was considered thee Gold Standard back then……not just for colors but for everything.

Whereas, consumer displays tended to emphasize a different set of characteristics than displays and set-ups used in professional mastering of motion pictures or high definition video releases. Add to that fact, the consumer displays in many peoples’ homes were usually operated far out of professional specifications, with the high brightness, high contrast, and high frequency response of consumer digital displays at the time the original Blu-ray release of TFE streeted revealing image qualities in the source signal which were not visible on the industry standard professional CRT based displays.

Simply put, a lot of you consumer folk had more revealing displays which indirectly provided a more critical view of HD sources than what was in popular use in the post facility that mastered The Fifth Element.

So, the little known back story about The Fifth Element re-release was that it was a primary causative factor which first prompted the investigation into using larger flat panels (LCD and/or plasmas) in the HD mastering for Blu-rays.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

...Are there other Sony titles that, while maybe not at the level of needing recall/replacement like 5thE, are nonetheless Sony titles that you think could/should have been done better, and would like to see, in an ideal way, revisited in the future?

There were a couple of Blu-rays distributed by SPHE which were handicapped by the HD masters sent over from the content providers (foreign). There is not much you can do when you are limited by what you are forced to work with, esp. when you don’t have a filmmaker of the stature of someone like Marty Scorsese, Ridley Scott, etc. to step in as an advocate for a new transfer to be done.

You make do with what you’ve got. It was either that, or folks would probably never see those couple titles make it onto Blu-ray.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

BEHOLD! Here I am, a shark chumming the waters with food for thought!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post18433689

I don’t agree with him that more modern films have more grain. If you read or pull just about every Kodak H-1 publication over the course of years, they will brag about the newest film stock having “fine grain” or to use the more technically accurate terminology “low measured granularity”……..and they are implying with comparison to previously offered Kodak stocks.

A couple examples, so you catch my drift……….
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/kolouch/pellicules/5279.pdf
http://www.filmcamerakit.com/pdf/5217.pdf

There certainly has not been a trend over the years by Kodak or Fuji to market *bigger the better grain*, *big honking grain*, *humming bird sized grain*. Nor has there been a trend by filmmakers to use older, grainer stocks. Quite the contrary….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-te...tml#post901604

So, I don’t understand what the guy is really talking about. Additionally, cameras’ dynamic range has certainly not been decreasing over the years. I think he is just missing the point or context of the discussion, that being that folks just want their Blu-rays to be accurate reproductions of the release prints which they saw in their local movie theaters…..or what they think they remember they saw.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

It is funny that they're choosing to enforce it on these titles specifically....

lol, yeah funny like a monkey and a football, like I noted on the last page.

Guess I won't be getting an invite to some Christmas parties over in Burbank.

[Penton-Man]

Some say, rumor has it that the major studios are in talks with the underworld people to make 3D already obsolete…………..

4D in California, Baby!
http://www.thewrap.com/article/earth...t-titans-15938

Don't believe the rumors.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

There were a couple of Blu-rays distributed by SPHE which were handicapped by the HD masters sent over from the content providers (foreign).

I'm guessing House of Flying Daggers has to be one of these titles.

[i JACK o]

Hey penton do you believe that the future has a place for 3d technology in american households or is this just a silly fad?

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

No, paperwork comes with all screeners. Perhaps if certain individuals hadn't found it necessary to start shitfits then they could have continued to escape notice. You only have to apply those kinds of clauses when you actually know it's going on you see. And of course, had WB actually supplied the copies used by certain websites or people like Xylon, then they would have been bound by those agreements as well.

The review on this forum does not seem to qualify as a shitfit to me and to me it looks like Warner is just insecure about the quality of their product - other studios do not feel the need for it so why does Warner?

BTW: The review here reminds me of the HD broadcast editions of the three movies in so far as the first movie looked considerably worse than the second and third one when broadcast in HD.

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

With video you get CCD noise. There is no way to acquire images without some kind of noise. Steps can be taken to minimize it, but there's no way to just pop a noise free image

You are correct, CCD noise is also an issue, but I was talking specifically about grain as this is what was deemed undesirable in the quoted post.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

No, it's not my post... I'm not the chum (or chummy, it seems), I'm the one feeding you guys so that you start a feeding frenzy!

Jeez, you should watch Discovery Chanel more...

Clearly two early on a Monday to get y'all riled up. Alas...

Ahh - now I see No feeding frenzy for me as I am still stuffed after three days of big and tasty meals over the holidays

And how did you know I don't watch TV ?

[Jeff Kleist]

The review on this forum does not seem to qualify as a shitfit to me and to me it looks like Warner is just insecure about the quality of their product - other studios do not feel the need for it so why does Warner?

The review here did not cause problems. The usual suspects did, and the angry mob they generated reached the attention of higher ups who then laid the smack

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by i JACK o

Hey penton do you believe that the future has a place for 3d technology in american households or is this just a silly fad?

Well, I wouldn’t term it a silly fad as this isn’t the same thing as your pappy’s or grandpappy’s idea of 3D at the local movie theater. There are some brilliant minds working on R&D as well as its implementation.

As far as it being the next BIG thing, I don’t know……..nobody knows for sure.
But, you would be a fool (I’m talking camera manufactures, post production facilities, content providers, consumer electronics companies, etc.) not to get ahead of the curve on this, if only purely from a business standpoint because it appears to have substantial potential….. if it is done well. According to one recent survey, 50% of consumers want 3D in the home and are willing to fork out the cash for glasses.

And, I can tell you for a fact, that filmmakers are overwhelmingly interested in it as a new artistic tool because numerous requests from around the world have been coming in to attend the 3D cinematography workshops at Sony Pictures Studios’ newly opened 3D Technology Center. Not to mention, directors, game developers, live event crews and others who are directly involved in producing 3D content. There really aren’t enough instructors to accommodate all the requests as quickly as people interested in doing 3D would like.

So, there is already a lot of grassroots interest and investment at many different types of professional disciplines.

I “believe” broadcasters(and game platforms) will drive the new dimension forward with 3D packaged media being a strong supplement.

And if you want to tip your toe into consumer level 3D filmmaking, here you go, as CP-20’s have been shipping out for awhile………http://www.3d-one.com/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

The review here did not cause problems. The usual suspects did, and the angry mob they generated reached the attention of higher ups who then laid the smack

Then I suggest they tend to the root cause (Quality Assurance 101)……and those forums/websites which blatantly sponsor the usual suspects' threads and don’t take it out on Blu-ray.com. There are many ways to do that, if they are so inclined.

Problem is though, you guys here have hit the BIG time, with all other forums/boards essentially considered dead zones or low readership venues.

[Jeff Kleist]

Then I suggest they tend to the root cause……and those forums/websites which blatantly sponsor the usual suspects' threads and don’t take it out on Blu-ray.com. There are many ways to do that, if they are so inclined.

Check your PMs later tonight