"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Attention gamer dudes –
http://www.3dgamingsummit.com/

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Best I’ve seen on the topic yet. It confirms what Jeff said earlier about ‘several masters’ and what I indicated before, that even though the project started at New Line, WB took control of the BD production after the reorganization.

From the article that you linked, I do find one technical omission or at least vagueness in their discussion of the so-called “new” HD masters to be potentially very relevant given the polarized opinions on the internet concerning the picture quality. That being, I would hope that the final archival master used for FOTR was sourced from a modern day scanner with modern day software (color corrector)….rather than all the recent work which is being talked about had actually been done starting from an original outdated master tape and is essentially a *video re-mastering* of that by WB’s Motion Picture Imaging, akin to doing something like this…http://digitalcontentproducer.com/mi...ray/index.html...in order to make the so-called "new" master for FOTR.

If you’re not following me, then think of it this way. When The Fifth Element was ‘redone’ (given its importance as a cult classic to videophiles, so to speak), which pales in cinematic importance compared to LOTR, instead of starting with the old HD master [which came from a outdated transfer device (namely a flying spot telecine) and old color corrector tools] and making a NEW HD master from that old HD archival master tape, SPHE commissioned an entirely new true scan of the best available color timed print to be used as the source for the NEW master for the NEW Blu-ray of TFE because a true scan contains a lot more information than a telecine and the onboard color corrector tools likewise are more technologically advanced.

If the studio producing the Blu-ray for the Trilogy didn’t do a new modern day true scan (with modern color corrector tools) of the best available color timed film element, then me thinks the screenshot police will scream *Poor effort, those cheap b*st*rds* on the part of WB. On the other hand, if in fact, WB did indeed start from a new datacine (scan) with the latest and greatest HD mastering software onboard, then me thinks the screenshot police will scream *WB compressionists still like to needlessly turn up the DNR knob on their encoding machine*… just look at these mpeg-2 HDTV screenshots as *evidence*!

So, given the above, when you think about it, the screenshot police have WB pretty much between a rock and a hard place in regards to the work done on FOTR for the Blu-ray edition. I don’t much care either way because as far as I’m concerned, they pretty much dug their own grave by asking Blu-ray.com to remove the screenshots from Ken Brown’s review so they’re not getting any LOTR sympathy from me and they can lie in the overly hyped internet screenshot perception bed that the *screenshot scientists* on other forums have made for them.

Thanks for the lesson . There are so many issues to consider that I doubt that anyone without first hand knowledge of the entire process could tell for certain how much better the PQ could have been. There are usually means to improve the PQ presentation of a particular release. Usually, it becomes an accounting issue: how much return for the investment? In the case of Close Encounters of the Third Kind Sony went all out and delivered a magnificent release of one of the all time best sci fi movies...just a perfect PQ & AQ. If you have any tidbits to share on that particular release I would appreciate it.

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Attention Bobby H. –
http://www.petapixel.com/2010/04/09/...on-5d-mark-ii/

I saw the news regarding the House season finalé a couple days ago (DP Review and some other sites were buzzing about it). It will be interesting to see how the show looks. The camera crew used the range of Canon's prime lenses as well as the f/2.8L 24-70mm and 70-200mm zooms.

I'd love to see some behind the scenes stuff on the episode, mainly to see what kinds of video-oriented accessories were attached to the cameras as well as how the footage was treated in post-production. You really have to be careful with shots featuring deep depth of field due to threat of aliasing. OTOH, one of the big attractions with the 5D Mark II is the artsy looking very shallow depth of field it can achieve when used in conjunction with large aperture lenses. Not many video cameras can be fitted with lens packs that achieve the same thing.

Originally Posted by Blu-Titan

There are so many issues to consider that I doubt that anyone without first hand knowledge of the entire process could tell for certain how much better the PQ could have been. There are usually means to improve the PQ presentation of a particular release. Usually, it becomes an accounting issue: how much return for the investment?

When the studio is dealing with a high profile title, such as the LOTR Trilogy, the usual "how much return are we getting for the investment" shareholder's interest crap has to be put on hold. Whether anyone likes the LOTR Trilogy or not it still was, by far, one of the most important movie releases of the last decade. Warner Bros. should be treating that saga as well as it can possibly manage. A crappy effort encoded to Blu-ray and sold to the public puts a stain on WB's legacy, not to mention does a considerable degree of damage to the studio's reputation. Enough of that nonsense will end up hurting disc sales. I've already had it with WMV's "rental" specific Blu-ray discs. I refuse to rent any of them after a couple of anger inspiring experiences. Since I have HBO, I'll just wait for any WHV movie release to appear there.

In my work, I could "phone it in" so to speak. Just do what's quick, convenient and "good enough." Who cares if it's good as long as the customer buys it, right? Well, any creative worker who cops that attitude has no right whatsoever to call himself an artist or even a professional at his craft. He might as well quit, go be a banker or something and make his living counting money and shuffling paper instead. I certainly don't want to slack off on my job because some of the stuff I design is signs and "store front personality" for businesses. If I sluff off with that type of project I'll be reminded of the poor effort every time I drive past that business. A crappy brochure is tossed in the garbage and quickly forgotten. A badly designed sign can visually assault the landscape for decades!

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Attention gamer dudes –
http://www.3dgamingsummit.com/

If Event Horizon was made in 3D, I'd have some serious nightmares of Sam Neill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK1debnXYlA

"Eyes? We don't need eyes where we're going."

Though he might say "3D? We don't need 3D where we're going."

[sharkshark]

Page 666 of 666

Devilish! Penton's thread has just officially become a) evil, b) really big, or c) all of the above

[Bobby Henderson]

I actually have the numbers 666 in a row in my social security number. One of my best friends has 666 in part of his mobile phone number. I guess that means we'll be lurking around in the study when Rosemary's Baby is rolled out for all the guests to see!

[MetalMike666]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I actually have the numbers 666 in a row in my social security number. One of my best friends has 666 in part of his mobile phone number. I guess that means we'll be lurking around in the study when Rosemary's Baby is rolled out for all the guests to see!

Well I guess my username requires me to make a post on this page.

[aygie]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Attention gamer dudes –
http://www.3dgamingsummit.com/

Penton I remember when you dropped the bomb on the PS3 DTSHD MA update, any chance you'd do the same with the 3D update

[Anthony P]

I know this is not your area, but do you know if Sony is working on a 3D projector for home use?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

Thanks for the lesson . There are so many issues to consider that I doubt that anyone without first hand knowledge of the entire process could tell for certain how much better the PQ could have been. There are usually means to improve the PQ presentation of a particular release. Usually, it becomes an accounting issue: how much return for the investment? In the case of Close Encounters of the Third Kind Sony went all out and delivered a magnificent release of one of the all time best sci fi movies...just a perfect PQ & AQ. If you have any tidbits to share on that particular release I would appreciate it.

Well, here’s the review from back in the day (which includes screenshots, as a gross illustrative aid to the reviewer)…
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Close...d-Blu-ray/529/

Real-time viewing of the picture quality via your Blu-ray player of choice, pretty much speaks for itself.

All, I’ll add is that, for a compressionist, it was not too difficult to capture as much appreciated detail as possible if you don’t have an aversion to grain, either aesthetically or due to its inherent increased data load which could place a burden on some predetermined bitrate budget established by the marketing folks to begin with … and SPHE had neither in regards to this particular title (nor does it have for any title really – we simply limit the added value or place it on another disc, if need be).

And, if you’re using a software encoder which has a scaling list that determines how the system’s H.264/AVC encoder treats fine detail in the frame. And if the operator sets it to the ‘grain preservation mode’, like…
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f..._params_22.jpg

so that the system will maintain film grain in the image which would otherwise be somewhat ignored during the encoding process in order to maximize the codec’s efficiency…well, when all of the above is done, I think you see for yourself that the results can be quite pleasing. The real difficult aspect of the authoring project for CEotTK was all the seamless branching which takes much time, skill and effort to do well.

The audio effort for the Blu-ray production of CEotTK is seldom mentioned nor appreciated, so I think that deserves a bit more recognition. In that regard, the audio restoration folks went back to the original 35mm 6-track magnetic soundtracks which were digitized at 96kHZ and 24 bits, the digital transfer then run thru the Clarity process…
http://www.triggertone.com/term/Clar...gent_Processes

which didn’t ‘add’ any information to the recording but, just unveiled, so to speak, the maximum potential of the original recording by removing mechanical instabilities such as wow and flutter, etc. during this digital restorative process. One reason why, as Ben so aptly puts it in his review “bass reproduction is nothing short of phenomenal with an abundance of LFE effects” was because of this Clarity tool and the skills of the audio re-mastering folks involved in the project…and of course the commitment to the project by the studio, in the first place.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by aygie

Penton I remember when you dropped the bomb on the PS3 DTSHD MA update, any chance you'd do the same with the 3D update

Perhaps…perhaps not, because as JamesN indicates…
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post3122755

There would appear to be quite a bit of teenage angst on this forum in regards to 3D and even proclamations from older, more mature audio/video savvy members claiming that the industry “is forcing 3D down our throats”.

So, I must say, at first glance, I am somewhat resistant to providing any insider information on this matter, as far be it from me to add to this alleged ‘industry 3D coercion’ by revealing specifics which have yet been officially announced. If I notice that the overall negative mood of the forum regarding 3D has changed, then my reticence may be adjusted accordingly.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I saw the news regarding the House season finalé a couple days ago (DP Review and some other sites were buzzing about it). It will be interesting to see how the show looks. The camera crew used the range of Canon's prime lenses as well as the f/2.8L 24-70mm and 70-200mm zooms.

I'd love to see some behind the scenes stuff on the episode, mainly to see what kinds of video-oriented accessories were attached to the cameras as well as how the footage was treated in post-production. You really have to be careful with shots featuring deep depth of field due to threat of aliasing. OTOH, one of the big attractions with the 5D Mark II is the artsy looking very shallow depth of field it can achieve when used in conjunction with large aperture lenses. Not many video cameras can be fitted with lens packs that achieve the same thing.

I recently bought myself a new digital camera. Why do these manufacturers continue to offer new and innovative products like a camera (best known and admired for its outstanding still photography ) that can also be used to shoot the final episode of one of the most popular shows on TV?

I feel the industry is forcing me to buy this product!
I will not!

I’m currently suffering from Digital SLR upgraditis fatigue and I will not allow Canon to shove this camera down my throat!...even with their pretty advertising –
http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/control...articleID=2326

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I know this is not your area, but do you know if Sony is working on a 3D projector for home use?

The goal is to have 3D encompass all lines from consumer friendly 3D cameras to Vaio laptops with 3D capability to all sorts of consumer home theater display devices of different *sizes* and shapes.

[Jeff Kleist]

I'm actually working on a proposal for a 3D project that will use locked down Canon (FD-5? The one that will shoot 1080p/24) I don't think that I'd use them for any actual moviemaking, but if you can slap it on a tripod and let it run, you can definately do far worse

[aygie]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Perhaps…perhaps not, because as JamesN indicates…
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post3122755

There would appear to be quite a bit of teenage angst on this forum in regards to 3D and even proclamations from older, more mature audio/video savvy members claiming that the industry “is forcing 3D down our throats”.

So, I must say, at first glance, I am somewhat resistant to providing any insider information on this matter, as far be it from me to add to this alleged ‘industry 3D coercion’ by revealing specifics which have yet been officially announced. If I notice that the overall negative mood of the forum regarding 3D has changed, then my reticence may be adjusted accordingly.

Thanks Penton, totally understandable but for the record I'm hell keen for 3D

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I recently bought myself a new digital camera. Why do these manufacturers continue to offer new and innovative products like a camera (best known and admired for its outstanding still photography ) that can also be used to shoot the final episode of one of the most popular shows on TV?

It's the same idiotic CE companies that make us upgrade our TVs just so we can watch Meatballs fall from the skies in 3D.


Meanwhile:

DSLR Cinema Lens Porn

MMmmmmmmm.....

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by aygie

Thanks Penton, totally understandable but for the record I'm hell keen for 3D

I know and I’ll add that the 3D haters are too busy hating anything *new* that they’re clueless to the fact that the R&D going into 3D development will (and already has) indirectly led to improvements in viewing 2D content with some upcoming 3D consumer displays, which otherwise might never have happened without the 3D technological initiative.

It’s a little like when the space program for going to the moon was in its infancy. You had some naysayers commenting that ‘what the hell do I care if we put a man on the moon… waste of money’. Of course, time later proved that some scientific advances reaped from the space programs directly led to improvements in technology, medicine, etc. for people on earth.

[sharkshark]

...or, you know, the trickle down arguments regarding nuclear weaponry (computation, energy), slavery (better/faster ships, logistics), the holocaust (excellent soap products)....

Slipery slope there, my friend.

3D Televisions are, of course, the future for our forthcoming sets. And I ain't no hater, amused that many will finally do it "right", either with very sophisticated sets, high frequency shutter glasses, changing luminosity to account for the shading due to to the lenses, etc.

However, the hyperbole right now is a bit stupid, I hope you'd admit. It's certainly easier to see this whole thing be a botched mess - hell, you still can't get consistent 1080p/24 with with many manufacturers (all except the high end Sonys, for example, have dropped the high frequency, frame repeat options for 24p playback, as previous iterations at 48hz were unsatisfactory), let alone 1080 lines of resolution with motion video.

So, the Vizio 3D set with 720i running to each eye (with in-motion resolution below that of most DVD) will, alas, rule the day I fear.

But, you know, I'm occasionally pessimistic.

[fitprod]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I know and I’ll add that the 3D haters are too busy hating anything *new* that they’re clueless to the fact that the R&D going into 3D development...

I don't think the hate for 3D comes from hating anything *new*, it's more trepidation about the general future of 3D. It's been a fad twice before, the '50's and '80's, and died fairly quickly.

We've started to see some half-assed theatrical conversions which are going to hinder the 3-D cause. Knowing how the studio system works, there will be more and more attempts to cash in on 3-D using these poor conversions, eventually leading to the failure of the format, once again.

As for the home market, I personally believe there will not be much content to use on these 3D home theater set-ups. Sure you'll have ESPN 3D, and a Discovery Channel, but with all due respect, launching a new format with the World Cup is a waste. (And then there's the debate of how well the new 3D equipment will be adopted in other countries where Soccer matters.)

Then we have the ultimate issue that is going to be the biggest stumbling block. Most everyone that upgraded to HD did so in the past three years, and then there's the more limited niche of us who bought new Blu-ray players and receivers. - Basically, if we want 3D, everything we own is completely obsoleted. For me, this is very annoying since I just updated my receiver a little more than a year ago, and basically had to buy a new TV in September since my LED DLP from Samsung shot itself in the head and died.

The hate is not coming the general hate of anything "new" it is the general problem of having to upgrade, again.

I'm fully aware of the amount of R&D being put into 3-D by the CE manufacturers and CEA houses, but I just wonder if it's a ton of money being wasted, for a limited amount of assets and consumers that can actually use it.

fitprod

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

...or, you know, the trickle down arguments regarding nuclear weaponry (computation, energy), slavery (better/faster ships, logistics), the holocaust (excellent soap products)....

Slipery slope there, my friend.

3D Televisions are, of course, the future for our forthcoming sets. And I ain't no hater, amused that many will finally do it "right", either with very sophisticated sets, high frequency shutter glasses, changing luminosity to account for the shading due to to the lenses, etc.

However, the hyperbole right now is a bit stupid, I hope you'd admit.

Well, I admit that things like this are visual “hyperbole” and could harm potential buyers by needlessly inflating their expectations…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B38PVNV4Gk

But, there is no denying the fact that the 3D tech which has “trickled down” to 2D is significantly reducing the colored ‘trailing’ while viewing 2D content with the new 3D Panasonic models. Plus, I think that in general, the industry 3D ‘hyperbole’ pales in comparison to a lot of audio video internet chatter in terms of how ‘good’ or ‘bad’ something is, which some members post day in and day out during their ‘debates’. So, don’t talk to me about hyperbole.

Do you think that I am sounding a little *hyperbolic* if I say that this unassuming little black box will be a game changer for live action sports?…
http://www.sony.com.au/pressrelease/...nmediareleases

I don’t and neither do broadcasters in-the-know like HBS…
http://www.hbs.tv/2010fifaworldcup/60