"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[4K2K]

But shouldn't it be a requirement that any up-converted Blu-ray should say clearly on the cover and in the product description on sites that it is up-converted? Whether it's been up-converted from 480i/576i/720p.

Isn't it against the trade descriptions act to say something is full high definition, 1080p, when it's really been up-converted from something lower and they aren't saying it has been on the product description/case?

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

German sneak attack while we sleep? Ruh roh...

Well, now that I said it our chances would be diminished - unless of course I bring along an appropriate Fraulein

Originally Posted by sharkshark

The sad part of all this is that I've never even SEEN M. Like a couple other classics (Cold Hand, for example), I have a feeling I'll be extremely pleased that I've waited until the, er, "beyond high definition" version.

Welcome to the club - I noticed recently that my knowledge of silent classics is rather rudimentary so I got me 4 Strohheim movies for starters as I always was fascinated by the man and I also got Sunrise. I will also buy M in the near future, but I have watched it quite often already so I will reserve it for a Fritz Lang mini retrospective. I think you should like M and imo it has stood the test of time much better than Metropolis which seems rather weird today.
And of course it will be nice to see some work by a resident insider on Blu-Ray!

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I missed the game itself.
I just saw the post game highlights and the way they portrayed it was that Inter closed down Messi and in so doing, shut down Barca. The result was actually quite surprising to me.

I’m beginning to think that the first 20min. of the Arsenal-Barca match was the greatest exhibition of domineering offensive prowess and ball control that I will ever see, or at least for a long, long time. In hindsight, I wish I had kept it on my DVR.

It was certainly interesting to see Inter dominate Barca but they have possibly the best coach/team manager in the world on their side and that definitely accounts for something - Messi never scored when playing against one of Mourinho's teams.

And I agree - the Barca-Arsenal game should be put on Blu-Ray sometime as it was almost magic to see Barca and Messi at their peak.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Planet Earth is all over the place with multiple kinds of cameras. It's not the same thing that we're talking about where a 480p master is processed straight up instead of doing a real HD master

Thank you, Jeff. I was about to get aggravated.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

But shouldn't it be a requirement that any up-converted Blu-ray should say clearly on the cover and in the product description on sites that it is up-converted? Whether it's been up-converted from 480i/576i/720p.

No, it shouldn't, particularly for a nature documentary shot over 6 years, clearly using a number of cameras in incredibly difficult shooting locations. You're getting an HD disc which does not mean that the content itself was shot on HD (720, 1080 or otherwise)

If you are so worried about a shot or two being upconverted, then surely you'd be savvy enough about the vagaries of documentary production to assume that the lipstick cam shoved into some 100ft pile of poop, shot in 2002, just might have compromised from a 1080p/24, full frame sensor shoot.

It'd be like going to JFK and complaining about all that crappy, grainy stuff at the beginning replicating the Zapruder stock.

Very, very different than taking an SD/480 master (which itself might be derived from a shoot involving a combination of a number of stocks/video sources) and running it through an After Effects "Video/Resize" pass.

Actually, this leads me to a whole 'nother topic that's always annoyed me - there are a few sites that do it (Beaver, IIRC), but most screenshot threads always show the DVD stuff blown up via image editing software. When you're discussing hardware-vs-software issues with decoding, you're now comparing source BD (hypothetically) to modified DVD. It just seems... silly.

[Jeff Kleist]

Isn't it against the trade descriptions act to say something is full high definition, 1080p, when it's really been up-converted from something lower and they aren't saying it has been on the product description/case?

UK laws do not apply to those outside of the UK

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

If you are so worried about a shot or two being upconverted

https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post1321335

this is the same camera that captured the vast majority of the footage for the Blu-ray (s) Planet Earth series.

The reason why it is usually chosen by lensers is that it has variable frame rate capture in single frame increments from 4 or 5 on up to 60p. Regardless of how you set the camera, the bottom line is that the recording format is DVCPRO HD (720/60P)....

You can then take that material and finish it in 720/60p using a standard linear tape based post production chain like was done with Facing the Giants, or the material can be converted to HD 1080p 24-fps, or 25 as the BBC did with Planet Earth.

Bottom line is that the material started life at 720/60P……no matter what anyone decides to do with it later by uprezzing and frame rate converting it, either at the VTR stage or further down the post production pipeline.

I'm not talking about a couple of shots. And like I said, I'm not just talking about Planet Earth (eg. other BBC made releases were shot using these cameras, that claim "full 1080p HD resolution" multiple times in the description). I'm talking about if all or the vast majority of any Blu-ray title is an up-convert then it should be said so on the product description, the case and other places and it should not be claimed to be "full 1080p resolution". They should say exactly what it was up-converted from. Otherwise it's just like writing "full 1080p resolution" on a standard definition DVD because they could say "your TV/player will upconvert it to 1080p". Obviously 1080p is not the true resolution of a BD if it's been upconverted, just like an upconverted DVD wouldn't be true 1080p.

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

UK laws do not apply to those outside of the UK

So if what they are doing is against the law (or potentially) in the UK why don't they do something about it - since they're selling them in the UK. Don't other countries have laws against false/misleading product descriptions (eg. calling something full 1080p resolution when it's upscaled SD or upscaled 720p but not saying that it's all/nearly all upscaled)?

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

So if what they are doing is against the law (or potentially) in the UK why don't they do something about it - since they're selling them in the UK. Don't other countries have laws against false/misleading product descriptions (eg. calling something full 1080p resolution when it's upscaled SD or upscaled 720p but not saying that it's all/nearly all upscaled)?

Is it really against the law, though? There are numerous examples of DVDs/Blu-rays that don't list the correct aspect ratio, or something. Is that misleading as well, or could that be put under 'typos'?

[Jeff Kleist]

Yes, but typically someone must file a complaint first. So if it really matters that much to you, call the ministry of trade it whoever handles it and file one

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Yes, but typically someone must file a complaint first. So if it really matters that much to you, call the ministry of trade it whoever handles it and file one

If that stops studios releasing 1080i transfers as 1080p (which happens here a little too often, especially on lower budget distributors) then it's definitely a thing worth looking into.

On a similar note, Dutch FilmWorks has introduced Blu-ray Long Play, which means that SD content (mostly miniseries and long documentaries) are upscaled and put on Blu-ray. So you technically have fewer discs (one release has 2 BDs, both of which have about 400 minutes of content), but this definitely seems like cheating the consumers to me. I'd also thought that this would never happen, but I guess I'm wrong.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by aygie

Thanks Penton, totally understandable but for the record I'm hell keen for 3D

Dem Brits get all the good stuff…
http://www.tvbeurope.com/main-conten...F22538DC16ECCA

For all those business majors out there reading...expect advertisers to pay a premium for the commercial slots during this summer’s World Cup.

[Mr. Cinema]

I ordered Traffic and Spartacus using Amazon's $5 off deal. I'm glad to hear the reports that Traffic is improved over the HD DVD. I know we're still a month away, but does anyone know if Universal used another master for Spartacus? I thought the HD DVD had gotten terrible video scores. Since this is the 50th Anniversary and the BD has extras on it, I'm hoping they didn't half-ass this one.

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Attention Bobby H. –
http://www.petapixel.com/2010/04/09/...on-5d-mark-ii/

I thought this was cooler (linked from above, if you missed it):
The Last Three Minutes

[Bobby Henderson]

It's an interesting video, but I think the House season finalé is still a bigger deal for the Canon EOS 5D Mark II considering the show is airing on a major broadcast network (FOX) and will be seen by tens of millions of viewers.

[wallendo]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post1321335


I'm not talking about a couple of shots. And like I said, I'm not just talking about Planet Earth (eg. other BBC made releases were shot using these cameras, that claim "full 1080p HD resolution" multiple times in the description). I'm talking about if all or the vast majority of any Blu-ray title is an up-convert then it should be said so on the product description, the case and other places and it should not be claimed to be "full 1080p resolution". They should say exactly what it was up-converted from. Otherwise it's just like writing "full 1080p resolution" on a standard definition DVD because they could say "your TV/player will upconvert it to 1080p". Obviously 1080p is not the true resolution of a BD if it's been upconverted, just like an upconverted DVD wouldn't be true 1080p.

The true resolution of a 1080p BD is 1080p. The effective resolution may be lower, but the BD is still outputting a 1920x1080 image, so it technically is 1080p. Another problem is that, except for a few digitally recorded TV titles, very few BD's contain video which started out as 1080p. The vast majority of current content originated on film, which does not have a fixed resolution. When film is scanned, it is generally not scanned at 1080p, and has to be rescaled at some point in the processing. Even digitally recorded movie are generally filmed at 2k, which must be either rescaled or cropped to 1080p - it is not a true 1080p source.

I would hate for BD cases to be covered with multiple paragraphs of legalese describing how the image ended up at 1080p.

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

... It's the same thing when Sony released Passage to India. Nobody wanted that title. We did, and still, very much want Lawrence of Arabia and River Kwai.

I did watch Passage to India last weekend.

1. I thought it was gorgeous.
2. The extras really made it for me - the views on David Lean's approach, style, attention to details I would miss, as well as retrospectives were great.
3. I was far more appreciative of the story than when I saw it in the theatre 25 years ago.

Cheers!

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

I know we're still a month away, but does anyone know if Universal used another master for Spartacus? I thought the HD DVD had gotten terrible video scores. Since this is the 50th Anniversary and the BD has extras on it, I'm hoping they didn't half-ass this one.

Hearing and reading about what they did to Out of Africa I am preparing for the worst - I am honestly considering not to buy any more Universal Blu-Rays before they show some respect for their catalog titles because I expect a studio to also make some kind of effort in that area.

Would you believe that Universal so far has released exactly zero movies to Blu-Ray that have been made before 1980? Even Paramount is getting better now so it is time for Universal to get with the program and step up their game as imo among the majors they are at the bottom of the barrel with regard to both quality and quantity of catalog releases.

So while I am still keeping my fingers crossed that Spartacus will mark a turning point in their classic/catalog release policy but I am not optimistic that this will be the case.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

I did watch Passage to India last weekend.

1. I thought it was gorgeous.
2. The extras really made it for me - the views on David Lean's approach, style, attention to details I would miss, as well as retrospectives were great.
3. I was far more appreciative of the story than when I saw it in the theatre 25 years ago.

Cheers!

Passage to India is an outstanding Blu-Ray, Sony did everything right with that one and I am looking forward to the next Lean movie that will soon be released by Sony as I know that will be another fantastic Blu-Ray!

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

....LoA is longer and more complicated (than Bridge which is by no means a technical walk-in-the-park project) and we are not rushing through it.There is already preliminary work that has been completed, but many months of work still lie ahead for LoA.

Was LOA filmed in three-strip technicolor?

I was impressed by the tools demonstrated in The African Queen extras. In particular, while I knew of the need for tools to align the three negative layers in 2D, I had not anticipated the need to warp these layers in 3D at times.

For whomever was involved, you have my kudos for both noticing that need, writing the tools, and taking the time to use them.