First Blood / Rambo: First Blood Part II / Rambo III 4K UHDs (1982-1988)

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by Markgway

bludarkknight got banned?

What for?

I'll miss the kitty pics.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Markgway

bludarkknight got banned?

What for?

I'll miss the kitty pics.

Surprised he lasted that long. What for? Almost the literal definition of shitposting. Well, kittylitterposting to be exact.

[Nlandeh]

Looks like someone need to get a new pair of socks.

After reading here i got the nordic release of the first three. Sometimes they look great, but they are inconcistent, for example the second one still have milky grey black levels in the first camp scenes.

[Noremac Mij]

If anyone needs new socks it’s Geoff. Those two come from the same neighborhood. I’m an American.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

Projected 35mm print has a max visible 600 lines of horizontal resolution.

[geomon]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

I’m an American.

It shows.

[Noremac Mij]

Originally Posted by geomon

It shows.

Super! I hope so.

[Geoff D]

First Blood (1982) 4K HDR10 review, UK StudioCanal UHD disc. HDR metadata: Mastering display colour primaries: P3-D65. Mastering display luminance levels: 1000/0.0001 max/min nits. Maximum Content Light Level: 479 nits. Maximum Frame Average Light Level: 433 nits. Disc type: UHD66.

Having initially reviewed the US Lionsgate UHD versions of the Rambo 4K remasters I assumed that the Euro video encodes by StudioCanal would be identical, or near as dammit, seeing as the US discs were also authored by StudioCanal. And even if they were different would it matter, because SC's authoring house is sponsored by Stevie Wonder and they have a unique talent for turning out shit. As it turns out I was very wrong to assume they were the same, as mr capsaholic revealed that the first two movies on UK UHD do indeed have very different encodes (third is apparently identical, though I think the UK one is still cut for horse falls) and just from looking at the caps they're nothing like the rubbish offered up by the US discs.

So emboldened, I decided to get the UK discs of FB and FBptII and boy am I glad I did. My US review of First Blood is here https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...3#post15761893 and everything said about the actual restoration itself in visual terms holds true because they're using the same 4K master which was done by Eclair in France. The compression is the big difference, not that I tore the US UHD a new one in that regard but it really is poor in spots, especially in brighter areas of the frame and it doesn't seem to be able to handle quick cuts, what I mean is that when the movie switches to another shot it takes the encoder a few frames to latch on rather than anticipating what's coming (and is the cornerstone of good compression, doing the proper pre-analysis of the content to allocate the bits to the right places rather than just throwing bitrate bitrate bitrate at it).

The UK disc (which is also that released in France and Germany, you pick which from a screen at startup) is however a massive improvement. Gone are the terminally blocky skies, gone is the digital diarrhoea whenever it cuts, it's just so much more consistent. And it didn't have the flickering black bars as seen on the US disc either. I wouldn't say that this is perfick because it's not as there's still a bit of fragility here and there e.g. the skin tones look a bit blotchy in the interiors when the cops take Rambo downstairs to book him, but the UK UHD is mostly verr competent and that's all I EVER aks for.

People blather on about "the perfect being the enemy of the good", well, if you gave me the choice of having 1 "perfect" encode for every 10 utterly crap ones or 10 encodes at 90% goodness I'd take the latter every time. Just give me a feeling of competence, that someone somewhere actually knows what they're doing, and I'm good with that. If people can't see this stuff anyway then that's fine, compression blindness is a very real issue along with sharpening blindness, DNR blindness etc (also known as Great Owl Syndrome), but if you're in any way discerning about this stuff then the UK disc is the one to have. I've also got the Eagle UHD from Italy which is another different encode and is also good, but as the packed in Blu-ray doesn't have the extensive extras of the UK/US Blus then I'd rather keep one package on my shelf and so the UK UHD wins. Spoiler alert for Rambo II: oh my ****ing god the UK UHD massacres the US one.

[Sky_Captain]

also known as Great Owl Syndrome

lmfao

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

If anyone needs new socks it’s Geoff. Those two come from the same neighborhood. I’m an American.

Who will occasionally use British slang/euphemisms and add u to words like a Brit.

What are slang and euphemisms aren't good enough for you?

[VirtuaBranson]

Great. So there’s like 3 UK discs I need to import according to Geoff. Fifth Element, and Rambo 1-2?

[Fendergopher]

Geoff, have you tried switching color space on any of the Rambos to DCI? Last time I spun First Blood I tried switching between the Auto and DCI setting and it made the green tint less pronounced overall.

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

First Blood (1982) 4K HDR10 review, UK StudioCanal UHD disc.

[Show spoiler] HDR metadata: Mastering display colour primaries: DCI-P3. Mastering display luminance levels: 1000/0.0001 max/min nits. Maximum Content Light Level: 479 nits. Maximum Frame Average Light Level: 433 nits. Disc type: UHD66.

Having initially reviewed the US Lionsgate UHD versions of the Rambo 4K remasters I assumed that the Euro video encodes by StudioCanal would be identical, or near as dammit, seeing as the US discs were also authored by StudioCanal. And even if they were different would it matter, because SC's authoring house is sponsored by Stevie Wonder and they have a unique talent for turning out shit. As it turns out I was very wrong to assume they were the same, as mr capsaholic revealed that the first two movies on UK UHD do indeed have very different encodes (third is apparently identical, though I think the UK one is still cut for horse falls) and just from looking at the caps they're nothing like the rubbish offered up by the US discs.

So emboldened, I decided to get the UK discs of FB and FBptII and boy am I glad I did. My US review of First Blood is here https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...3#post15761893 and everything said about the actual restoration itself in visual terms holds true because they're using the same 4K master which was done by Eclair in France. The compression is the big difference, not that I tore the US UHD a new one in that regard but it really is poor in spots, especially in brighter areas of the frame and it doesn't seem to be able to handle quick cuts, what I mean is that when the movie switches to another shot it takes the encoder a few frames to latch on rather than anticipating what's coming (and is the cornerstone of good compression, doing the proper pre-analysis of the content to allocate the bits to the right places rather than just throwing bitrate bitrate bitrate at it).

The UK disc (which is also that released in France and Germany, you pick which from a screen at startup) is however a massive improvement. Gone are the terminally blocky skies, gone is the digital diarrhoea whenever it cuts, it's just so much more consistent. And it didn't have the flickering black bars as seen on the US disc either. I wouldn't say that this is perfick because it's not as there's still a bit of fragility here and there e.g. the skin tones look a bit blotchy in the interiors when the cops take Rambo downstairs to book him, but the UK UHD is mostly verr competent and that's all I EVER aks for.

People blather on about "the perfect being the enemy of the good", well, if you gave me the choice of having 1 "perfect" encode for every 10 utterly crap ones or 10 encodes at 90% goodness I'd take the latter every time. Just give me a feeling of competence, that someone somewhere actually knows what they're doing, and I'm good with that. If people can't see this stuff anyway then that's fine, compression blindness is a very real issue along with sharpening blindness, DNR blindness etc (also known as Great Owl Syndrome), but if you're in any way discerning about this stuff then the UK disc is the one to have. I've also got the Eagle UHD from Italy which is another different encode and is also good, but as the packed in Blu-ray doesn't have the extensive extras of the UK/US Blus then I'd rather keep one package on my shelf and so the UK UHD wins. Spoiler alert for Rambo II: oh my ****ing god the UK UHD massacres the US one.

Sold.

[Noremac Mij]

The entire movie looks nothing like what it should look like, but hey, the encode on that other disc is Gucci.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Fendergopher

Geoff, have you tried switching color space on any of the Rambos to DCI? Last time I spun First Blood I tried switching between the Auto and DCI setting and it made the green tint less pronounced overall.

No, because it doesn't bother me, it's not an incorrectly-applied colour space so there's no reason to change it.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

First Blood (1982) 4K HDR10 review, UK StudioCanal UHD disc. HDR metadata: Mastering display colour primaries: DCI-P3. Mastering display luminance levels: 1000/0.0001 max/min nits. Maximum Content Light Level: 479 nits. Maximum Frame Average Light Level: 433 nits. Disc type: UHD66.

Thanks for the review kitty kat.

Given the better encode, is grain more visible or at least less chunky and looks more like actual grain and not compression artifacts?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by singhcr

Thanks for the review kitty kat.

Given the better encode, is grain more visible or at least less chunky and looks more like actual grain and not compression artifacts?

Yes, that's the whole point of me saying that the compression is much betterer.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yes, that's the whole point of me saying that the compression is much betterer.

[Markgway]

Not sure it matters how good the compression is if the master is borked.

It's a bit like arguing over which shit cake has the best icing?

[Geoff D]

Rambo: First Blood Part II (1985) 4K HDR10 review, UK StudioCanal UHD disc. HDR metadata: Mastering display colour primaries: P3-D65. Mastering display luminance levels: 1000/0.0001 max/min nits. Maximum Content Light Level: 479 nits. Maximum Frame Average Light Level: 464 nits. Disc type: UHD66.

Okay, so, like with First Blood, here's my review of the US Lionsgate UHD of Part II for orientation: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...1#post15766961. Unlike the first film I was much more scathing regarding the compression because it really is dire on the US edition of Part II. A few frames look fine, the next few frames look like shit, a few frames look fine, the next few frames look like shit. Good lawd it's terrible. It may not look ultra ultra blocky in motion unless you're really seeking it out but what it does do is leech out the temporal (motion) detail, it's crazy how much sharper the UK UHD appears to be in comparison because the encoding isn't constantly sharting out these garbage frames, it means there's more detail from frame to frame and it all adds up. In several scenes the US UHD seems noticeably softer.

This means far less blocking silliness on the UK edition and (in case it needs spelling out) grain that's resolved 10 times betterer than it is on the US disc, which also adds to that perception of enhanced sharpness. Again, this UK disc not perfection by any means as it's got a bit of its own mild macroblocking in certain places - it really doesn't like the bit with Rambo in the smoke at the end - but it's not the outrageous digital filth that the US disc is smothered in. Right at the end with Rambo and Trautman walking past the burning chopper, in the far background there're some overhead cables, electrical or whatever. They're supposed to be soft and out of focus as they're so far away but on the US UHD the compression of that background is so bad that the cables just disappear, gone in a haze of digital mush, whereas on the UK UHD those cables are still visible. People might say "so what? Why are you looking at the background rather than the people?" and I'd reply "because this is what the compression is doing to the image throughout the whole goddamn movie", it's sucking these details out of it.

Ironically enough the vastly improved compression makes some parts of the restoration stand out more though, the grain can look a wee bit smeary and "managed" and there are a few brief shots that have a hail of white flecks and scratches (this is damage on the negative itself) that weren't painted out.

Still looks really good overall, the black level won't be to everyone's taste but as mentioned before there is still more density here during the darker scenes than in the 4K of the first film. And I can't get over how sharp this looks, it's funny how modern filmmakers defer to anamorphic as being a way of softening an image by using old glass, or they like getting lots of lens flares in there just because, but Part II is 37 frickin' years old yet it's as sharp as a tack (aside from the classical in-camera filtration) with no lens flares to be found despite being shot anamorphic. But when you have the legendary Jack Cardiff as your DP then he knows his shit. From The Red Shoes to Rambo, what a guy.

I took some photos before to illustrate just how shoddy the US one was, I didn't do them all again for UK vs US but I thought I'd go back to the river boat explosion and pick out one of the worst frames; the whole sequence is terribad on the US, but this frame was as good (bad?) as any other. Imagine my surprise when the frame I'd picked this time is the exact one I'd done a close-up of in my previous review

Remember, these photos aren't to show colour or range or whatever (though even the capsaholic converted caps would seem to suggest there are slight differences in the grading between the two), just embiggen them a little and marvel at how shockingly poor the compression is on the US UHD, especially on the tips of the flames and look at how the grain in the sky is just gone. And if anything it actually looks worse in reality than it does in the photo.

US Lionsgate UHD




UK StudioCanal UHD