HDR Discussion Thread

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Unfortunately that's a video made by well-known internet troll and all-round idiot, Quantum TV. Relying on him undermines your point, rather than strengthening it, sadly.

I don't know the guy, I'm zero familiar with him.

Anyway from several other sources that Samsung HDR model TV seems to have high peak brightness (nits)*

If you know other guys who know best please be my guest, I'm here to learn more from you.

* I've checked a bunch of them.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

He's greatly oversimplifying things but the main USP for Dolby Vision in the home is indeed making HDR 'fit' better on displays that aren't up to that task. The actual grading tools at source are no more or less advanced than what the same colourist in the same suite could use for HDR10, it's all the downconversion stuff where the major differences are - but if someone has a display that's nearer to what the content can do than not then DV's downconversion gets progressively dialled back. That still leaves us with 12-bit playback, albeit on the discs that are encoded with FEL and not MEL, but that's so not going to be the amazing difference maker that some people think it is...should we ever actually get affordable 12-bit consumer displays.

Dynamic metadata fits as a feature seperate from HDR10 that a colorist has the option to tweak after automatic generation. As dynamic metadata operates independently from DV tone mapping.

I think DV ability to properly tone map content is more inherently related to the 12 bit 10K peak nits and creation of the Dolby Pulsar. Even then, its my understanding that no tone mapping is only when the target display is 1:1 spec wise with the mastering monitor.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

I don't know the guy, I'm zero familiar with him.

Anyway from several other sources that Samsung HDR model TV seems to have high peak brightness (nits)*

If you know other guys who know best please be my guest, I'm here to learn more from you.

* I've checked a bunch of them.

He claims to calibrate with a meter and software but refuses to post pics or video of his meter and software. Also, no mention of whether or not he calibrates to the D65 white point.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

He claims to calibrate with a meter and software but refuses to post pics or video of his meter and software. Also, no mention of whether or not he calibrates to the D65 white point.

He does in the video posted he has one of those X-Rite gizmos and CalMan Enthusiast software, but apart from that I've got no idea of his process compared to trusted sources.

At least his replies to the comments are amusing (he basically says Samsung wouldn't go out of their way to say a TV hits almost 2,000 nits, that's not how they roll), though it's interesting to see people flock to him like acolytes, when he says sites like Rtings and HDTVTest aren't telling the truth.

YouTube gonna YouTube.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.o...ide/index.html
and in there ^ (mentioned in the article), not only Atmos but a shout out regarding Dolby Vision IQ
P.S.
development thanks to Robin – https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-atkins-8445197a/
and team

And testimonials begin to roll in, for example….
“What was it shot on? The Dolby Vision Stream looked amazing”

Eric Fletcher SOC (http://soc.org/about/)
Steadicam/Camera Operator
Technical Chairperson SOC
b.t.w., for those unaware, SOC has its own magazine with articles like this - http://soc.org/project/only-the-brave/

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by chip75

He does in the video posted he has one of those X-Rite gizmos and CalMan Enthusiast software, but apart from that I've got no idea of his process compared to trusted sources.

At least his replies to the comments are amusing (he basically says Samsung wouldn't go out of their way to say a TV hits almost 2,000 nits, that's not how they roll), though it's interesting to see people flock to him like acolytes, when he says sites like Rtings and HDTVTest aren't telling the truth.

YouTube gonna YouTube.

I asked him a year ago to post pics and he never would, I guess he finally put his money where his mouth is. He probably doesn't think white point matters, if it hits 2000 in vivid mode.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

Dynamic metadata fits as a feature seperate from HDR10 that a colorist has the option to tweak after automatic generation. As dynamic metadata operates independently from DV tone mapping.

I think DV ability to properly tone map content is more inherently related to the 12 bit 10K peak nits and creation of the Dolby Pulsar. Even then, its my understanding that no tone mapping is only when the target display is 1:1 spec wise with the mastering monitor.

But the point of all this, as we've discussed before, is not to redo the source HDR grade using the DV downconversion tools. The grade is done before the Dolby analysis pass. All those myriad tweaks you're obsessed with are for creating the most effective downconversion, to preserve as much of the already-decided intent as possible within the constraints of the targeted modes e.g. 100 nits, 600 nits, 1000 nits etc, stored as metadata which then informs the dynamic DV tone mapping on the target display.

[Blue Tint]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yes, the brighter one would make the poor contrast look perceptually worse (which is what I mean about matey there greatly oversimplifying things, HDR is not just about nits) especially if it was an LCD as the maxed out backlight would be polluting the blacks. If you have great contrast and blacks then that's half the battle with HDR and is why OLEDs are a great choice. But if you can ally good-to-great contrast and deep blacks with sustainably high peak brightness then you've got a best of all worlds combination and is where HDR display tech should be aiming, not just this constant recycling of OLED and a race to the bottom with LCD.

In my defence the member asking the question seemed to be confused and not informed about Dolby Vision in any manner and so my reply was to give him a basic idea for him to follow up on.

It seemed obvious to me that in relation to emphasizing peak brightness that any TV that can perform this to a high standard will also be able to perform all other tasks just as proficiently.

I personally am not aware of any TV made nowadays that scores highly in peak brightness and severly underperforms in any other area but please enlighten me if I am mistaken.

I also recommended him to check online reviews on any TV where he can see for himself the results of the performance of any particular TV he may be interested in.

This is why I did not elaborate any further.

Why should I when there are professionals who do the job for a living aimed at consumers like him?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Blue Tint

In my defence the member asking the question seemed to be confused and not informed about Dolby Vision in any manner and so my reply was to give him a basic idea for him to follow up on.

It seemed obvious to me that in relation to emphasizing peak brightness that any TV that can perform this to a high standard will also be able to perform all other tasks just as proficiently.

I personally am not aware of any TV made nowadays that scores highly in peak brightness and severly underperforms in any other area but please enlighten me if I am mistaken.

I also recommended him to check online reviews on any TV where he can see for himself the results of the performance of any particular TV he may be interested in.

This is why I did not elaborate any further.

Why should I when there are professionals who do the job for a living aimed at consumers like him?

Nits nits nits are no guarantee of anything (apart from nits), it's extraordinarily simplistic to equate it like that. Some Threestar TVs pump out thousands of nits but I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

He claims to calibrate with a meter and software but refuses to post pics or video of his meter and software. Also, no mention of whether or not he calibrates to the D65 white point.

Ok

I've also checked other sources like I said, and that HDR TV model has all the nits required for people who want lots of nits. It has more than 700 ...
Nits are nits are nits for who want nits are nits ...

Me I like motion blur-free, and darker rooms, and wide viewing angles. ...Nits too, enough to be satisfied nits wise.

[Blue Tint]

Originally Posted by chip75

Quick question ... If you take two displays with a relatively poor contrast ratio and give one display an extra thousand nits of peak brightness (say from 300 to 1,300 nits), how would that affect dark room viewing? would that make the poor black levels look even more grey?

I'd love an OLED, but I don't think it's going to work in the day and due to other requirements I'm limited to my options.

You need to ask yourself a question.

Do you want to watch films on a TV that closely replicates the creative content of the movie as much as possible or do you want a bright TV that is more vibrant during daylight viewing?

Once you start watching films on a TV that accurately reproduces images as the creators intended you will find it unbearable going back to a very bright display that is further away from reproducing that creative content.

Also, OLED TVs have picture presets for daytime viewing both for normal TV watching and also phyical media too should you find more accurate low light setting not to your preference but I would personally discourage you to do that except for watching TV generally.

[Blue Tint]

Originally Posted by chip75

Thanks Geoff D.

All I need is a TV that has an LCD layer for daytime viewing and an OLED layer to watch on my lonesome.

Tempted with an OLED, but I'd have to max the brightness during the day and that's not going to be great for the panel.

OLED panels have daytime settings that are still only calibrated at 60% maximum brightness of the displays capabilities or slightly more so you will be fine.

It is highly unlikely you will need to set the brightness to 100%.

If you did that and kept it at 100% brightness for all viewing then you will obviously reduce the lifespan of the panel.

Don't forget most decent OLED manufacturers come with 6 year guarantee.

[Blue Tint]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDKi...ature=youtu.be

■□ HDR TV https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...hat-is-hdr-tv/

By the way, the Q8FN has about 40 dimming zones. ...That's not a lot, so it is something to consider.

* I'm from Canada too. The HDR/DV/HLG LG C8 OLED 4K UHD TV (65" Class) I saw was $1,800 Cdn with extended five years warranty, floor model with less than 200 hours, and burn-in is covered in the warranty (for five years) or full money back...Best Buy Canada.
But it is over your $1,000 budget.

You can't beat that, and with that type of warranty, price, and extended burn-in covering (5 years).
That's $1,800 plus tax...roughly $2,000 total...Canadian loonies.
Even from the US.

Those C8s are good TVs.

[Blue Tint]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

I don't know the guy, I'm zero familiar with him.

Anyway from several other sources that Samsung HDR model TV seems to have high peak brightness (nits)*

If you know other guys who know best please be my guest, I'm here to learn more from you.

* I've checked a bunch of them.

I find the guys over avforums competent in their reviews.
Website here: https://www.avforums.com/

However, as I live in the UK all products they review are UK products for sale so if you live in Canada or USA then perhaps not your best option.

[Blue Tint]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Nits nits nits are no guarantee of anything (apart from nits), it's extraordinarily simplistic to equate it like that. Some Threestar TVs pump out thousands of nits but I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole.

Never said they was a guarantee of anything but they are an important aspect in relation to HDR content.

Like I said before, I pointed out to the poster to check out reviews online of any TV performance both calibrated and out of the box before making a decision.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Blue Tint

I find the guys over avforums competent in their reviews.
Website here: https://www.avforums.com/

However, as I live in the UK all products they review are UK products for sale so if you live in Canada or USA then perhaps not your best option.

I'm French Canadian. I read Canadian Internet, French reviews, English reviews from North America, and even from overseas Internet HDR TV reviews and articles (UK, Germany, Italy, Morocco and Kathmandu).

I'm also a member @ AV Forums (UK), and on Facebook with several audio/video outfitters.

I like OLED HDR TVs; Panasonic, Sony and LG, including the C8 I mentioned for a good price in Canada and that extra warranty for burn-in or full money back...can't beat that.
I also like the C9, very. ...More money but burn-in is also covered for an extra 5 years.
• https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/commen..._oled_burn_in/



It comes fully equipped, DV HDR included, it says on the add ...

[Blue Tint]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

I'm French Canadian. I read Canadian Internet, French reviews, English reviews from North America, and even from overseas Internet HDR TV reviews and articles (UK, Germany, Italy, Morocco and Kathmandu).

I'm also a member @ AV Forums (UK), and on Facebook with several audio/video outfitters.

I like OLED HDR TVs; Panasonic, Sony and LG, including the C8 I mentioned for a good price in Canada and that extra warranty for burn-in or full money back...can't beat that.
I also like the C9, very. ...More money but burn-in is also covered for an extra 5 years.
• https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/commen..._oled_burn_in/



It comes fully equipped, DV HDR included, it says on the add ...

Yes. I think The C9 is meant to be a great TV.

The C10 apparantly is not much improved over the C9.

Don't know if that is LG penny pinching or perhaps OLED technology is close to reaching its pinnacle.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Blue Tint

Yes. I think The C9 is meant to be a great TV.

The C10 apparantly is not much improved over the C9.

Don't know if that is LG penny pinching or perhaps OLED technology is close to reaching its pinnacle.

I own the C9, no complaints here. One of the best TVs I have owned.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by chip75

He does in the video posted he has one of those X-Rite gizmos and CalMan Enthusiast software, but apart from that I've got no idea of his process compared to trusted sources.

At least his replies to the comments are amusing (he basically says Samsung wouldn't go out of their way to say a TV hits almost 2,000 nits, that's not how they roll), though it's interesting to see people flock to him like acolytes, when he says sites like Rtings and HDTVTest aren't telling the truth.

YouTube gonna YouTube.

I will vouch for the X-Rite i1Display LT, which is an older model used to calibrate SDR and HD 1080p displays. I bought that about 9 years ago to calibrate my parent's Panasonic 65" Plasma TV. I also used the Color HCFR calibration software and the DVE HD Basics Disc to calibrate as close as possible to the D65 whitepoint. I believe I achieved that pretty well. I just hated getting into that Panasonic Service menu every time!! To this day, the TV still looks amazing thanks to that device. I was thinking about getting a newer model for calibration with 4K and HDR but with how complicated HDR can be, I had trusted professionals calibrate my new LG C9 instead. Glad I chose that route!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Nits nits nits are no guarantee of anything (apart from nits),

Well one thing is guaranteed, unless there is intervention, nits beget MORE nits…..I learned that back in early 2014 in discussion with a family prodigy….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...gs#post8764829