HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Waiting on HLG HDR live transmissions of sporting events...

With Japan likely leading the way, e.g. “ SKY Perfect JSAT began broadcasting 4K-HDR in October, and is moving ahead with plans to advance into live broadcasting of sports and other events with support from Sony”…. https://blog.sony.com/press/sony-and...sdr-broadcast/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

With Japan likely leading the way....

Seems I’ve used a variant of that phrase before….specifically, just last November with regards to HLG software downloads for the Toshiba 4K REGZA 50 Z20X TVs…..https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...a#post12881355

Forgot about the HDR(HLG) baseball thing though.

[DanBa]

"Beyond Q4, we expect the growth drivers for the connected smart TV platform will include the following. Our 4K TV SoC with leading edge features such as universal HDR, refined picture quality, and the broader selection of named brand software application available such as Roku and Google are enabling us to differentiate ourselves from the competition and gain recognition as a distinguished quality player."
[CEO of Sigma Designs – December 06, 2016 - Earnings Conference Call]
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4028...all-transcript

"Our 4K TV SoC, with leading features such as universal HDR, refined picture quality, and the broadest selection of name brand streaming content available, enabling us to differentiate ourselves from the competition and gain market share.
We are the only provider of 4K TV chip for Vizio, with shipment to TPV, Foxconn, Wistron and Amtran. This is a position that affords us ongoing growth as also high definition takes over the US market and becomes the largest portion of Vizio revenue."
[CEO of Sigma Designs – June 06, 2016 - Earnings Conference Call]
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topst...ipt/ar-BBtWHEX



"FREMONT, CA – (Marketwired – September 01, 2016) – Sigma Designs® (NASDAQ: SIGM), a leading provider of Smart TV platforms and IoT devices announced today its breakthrough single-chip Smart UHD TV SoC solution that improves picture quality and audio performance of while lowering board costs and meeting TV market demand for low profile form factor. Designed to be used in the highest quality UHD televisions, the new STV7804 offers a rich feature set including universal High Dynamic Range (HDR), 100/120Hz frame rates, and high performance processors.
While most competitors are working on their first generation of HDR solutions, STV7804 represents Sigma’s 3rd Generation of High Dynamic Range and Wide Color Gamut designs. This mature platform offers a universal programmable HDR Engine that supports HDR10, Dolby Vision and a new HDR standard called HLG (Hybrid Log Gamma) with Rec.2020 Wide Color Gamut."
http://www.sigmadesigns.com/news/sig...ate-converter/

As the STV7804 SoC has 10-bit VP9 decoding capabilities, it could also support VP9-PQ / VP9-HLG YouTube HDR.

As the STV7804 SoC has enough processing power required by Dolby Vision and a future Dynamic HDR is somewhat equivalent to Dolby Vision leaving out the standardization differences, a STV7804 SoC-based TV could be technically upgraded to be compatible with a future Dynamic HDR format.

[Penton-Man]

SMPTE quarterly meetings now concluded. Next quart standards meetings scheduled for March up in San Jose, here….

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

That still ^ is like chip porn. Reminds me of this projector porn video -

How Do Digital Projectors Produce 281 Trillion Shades of Color? - YouTube

[Richard Paul]

HDMI has discreetly announced on the manufacturer section of their website that HDMI 2.0b can support HLG due to the release of CTA-861-G. Granted to add HLG to a current HDMI device it would need to be firmware updatable and have sufficient processing power to process the HLG video. I still expect HDMI 2.1 to be announced next month since nothing was said about dynamic metadata or any of the new 3D audio formats.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/index.aspx

[Geoff D]

What new audio formats are there?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

HDMI has discreetly announced on the manufacturer section of their website that HDMI 2.0b can support HLG due to the release of CTA-861-G. Granted to add HLG to a current HDMI device it would need to be firmware updatable and have sufficient processing power to process the HLG video. I still expect HDMI 2.1 to be announced next month since nothing was said about dynamic metadata or any of the new 3D audio formats.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/index.aspx

Let me guess: HDMI 2.0b and 2.1 will require all new hardware. HDMI is the work of the devil. It's the all around crappiest interface they could have come up with.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What new audio formats are there?

MPEG-H 3D Audio and Dolby AC-4 which are listed as Table 66 and 67 in the preview for CTA-861-G.

http://www.techstreet.com/standards/...uct_id=1934129

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

MPEG-H 3D Audio and Dolby AC-4 which are listed as Table 66 and 67 in the preview for CTA-861-G.

http://www.techstreet.com/standards/...uct_id=1934129

Basically, broadcast audio standards. I just wish Dolby had stuck with Dolby Atmos as is rather than dumb it down further than the Blu-ray version to try and squeeze it into a smaller space. Go big, or go home is my motto.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Let me guess: HDMI 2.0b and 2.1 will require all new hardware. HDMI is the work of the devil. It's the all around crappiest interface they could have come up with.

I think that a firmware update is possible with HDMI 2.0b (since some Toshiba HDR TVs have received a firmware update for HLG) but that HDMI 2.1 will require new hardware.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

Those YouTube HDR videos.

^ Benicio del Toro?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

nothing was said about dynamic metadata....

So, without getting overly technical. what in simple terms is the advantage of dynamic metatdata over static metadata (HDR10) with regards to movies?

Well, it’s seldom that the entire movie is shown with the same lighting as there are always dark scenes and bright scenes. In the case of static metadata you have one set of parameter controls (MaxCLL, MaxFALL) across that entire motion picture. The following is an example of the typical settings used for encoding HEVC for a file graded in SMPTE ST 2084 HDR using BT.2020 primaries at a UHD resolution….



Whereas, on the other hand, with dynamic metadata, the method in which the image on your TV is being controlled is changing on, at the minimum, a scene by scene basis so that you can take advantage of the full capability of the TV matched to that particular moment in time (scene) in the movie.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

HLG

A nice option for video distributors as we’ve been discussing on this forum for a long time….. actually, for the record, way back since when NHK (shifted gamma) and BBC (gamma plus log) combined their respective approaches into one proposal (HLG) for consideration by standards organizations.

But, not to show bias, for the sake of those PQ EOTF (SMPTE ST 2084) fans or advocates, with regards to using PQ for live transmission…..what’s happening now in that particular realm?

Well, something to consider is how do you view PQ on a standard dynamic range preview monitor. Well, you need a mapping function that takes PQ and maps it down to gamma (SDR) in real time. That mapping function is the key feature to making PQ work with live broadcasts and one PQ proponent (Dolby) is, as we speak, working on refining that algorithm, basically to compete with the HLG approach.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^ Benicio del Toro?

I learn these things from commercials during the half time of soccer matches...

Heineken | "World Famous" #MoreBehindTheStar - YouTube

Later, 2nd half is starting.

[jono3000]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Whereas, on the other hand, with dynamic metadata, the method in which the image on your TV is being controlled is changing on, at the minimum, a scene by scene basis so that you can take advantage of the full capability of the TV matched to that particular moment in time (scene) in the movie.

Is there a technical restriction on the amount of dynamic metadata that can be provided?

How much extra storage is required to provide a dynamic metadata dataset for a full movie? If it's just 2 values for each scene/shot then not much if they are a couple bytes each?



Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

HDMI has discreetly announced on the manufacturer section of their website that...http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/index.aspx

lol, Richard, I’m informed thru email that we are “discreetly” being closely monitored by a twitter news account that never acknowledges this thread as a resource, but eagerly references other websites like HDD, etc.

14 hours after your post….https://twitter.com/UHD4k/status/807953424016883712

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by jono3000

Is there a technical restriction on the amount of dynamic metadata that can be provided?

Hi Jono, long time no hear. No matter what application (Samsung, Dolby, etc.) it would have to abide by ST 2094-1: Core Components which specifies a “core” set of common metadata items and provides a framework for specialized applications.

In the production workflow, one of the challenges is where? to put the darn stuff (metadata), some choices -

a. within the HEVC essence
b. within a set of encapsulated info that gets carried along with the video in the transport layer
c. layering it with multiple video elements with some of them carrying different amounts of metadata.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Circa 2 years ago (12/5/2014) –

And one example of how we’ve progressed since then....

At the Bench: A Closer Look at the DP-V2420 - YouTube

Which ^ was available for live HDR monitoring during the HDR presentation at the Clubhouse last November....https://www.theasc.com/site/news/arr...asc-clubhouse/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

at the Clubhouse last November....https://www.theasc.com/site/news/arr...asc-clubhouse/

The update of the famous (at least to cinematographers and other industry folk, e.g. this is the HPA (http://www.hpaonline.com/) download for the 2015 chart - http://www.hpaonline.com/wp-content/...ison-Chart.pdf) camera comparison chart for 2016 is now available and now includes the Arri Alexa SXT, as mentioned in the above ASC article about the HDR presentation at the Clubhouse…..https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8u...dERE9uYUk/view

Although not entirely scientific, it’s a nice handy chart to refer to.