Lord of the Rings Trilogy (Theatrical Versions) - April 6, 2010

[radagast]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

If you have the old DVDs from 2001-2004, you should take another look at them:

The PQ on FotR is distinctly inferior to that of the other two films. Every complaint in the review of the blu-ray of FotR is something that is also present in the DVD version. Why? Because the original post-production on FotR was not as good as on the other two films. It was a learning process for them, and their deadlines were next to impossible. As awesome and pains-taking as these films were made, they were rushed. For a couple years there, they had a film or two on release simultaneous with pick-up shooting and post-production on another (or two); post-production on RotK continued past every deadline pretty much all the way up to the release date, they had to use workprints for the pre-release exhibitions, (often to their great embarrassment: ever hear about the upside-down-Pelennor-fields-battle at the New York premiere?) There is visible image-inconsistency from one film to the next, always was. For crying out loud... the Gollum in FotR is completely different from in the other two: at the time of release, New Line still hadn't even given them a greenlight on Mo-Capping Andy Serkis, they were pushing for a free-animation of Gollum.

I haven't seen the Blu-ray yet, obviously, but I think WB is being unfairly crucified over what can't be helped. Is there detectable DNR? Probably, but if you really want to be a dick about that, well the fact is that most blu-rays do have some DNR, and if that's a dealbreaker for you, then you're beating your head against the wall, and you should probably just take a pass on blu-ray altogether. Good Lord! That has quickly become the poser's mantra around here: "I can detect DNR in this release... it is less than perfect, and my perception is awesome! Let us boycott the evil WB, for they have introduced imperfection into the perfect world of blu-ray!" Get over yourselves! Stop patting yourself on the back just because you can spot differences in picture quality. Most of you can't tell the difference between digital noise, film grain, broadcast interference, and just plain white noise.
Films have visible differences in picture, because they are not all filmed under identical conditions. Did you need blu-ray to figure that out?
Could WB have done a better job on this release? Again, probably... but this is a generic release, it's not a serious remastering, not an ultimate edition, it's just a VC-1 encoding of the same scan they used to make the 2002-2004 DVDs. Peter Jackson and Weta digital were not in a position to do any meaningful work on this release, but they have always expressed an intention to do so at the first opportunity, (Jackson has said he would put in work on an ultimate edition as soon as they were at a point in working on 'The Hobbit' where Weta is in full "Middle-Earth mode" but could still afford to appropriate resources to work on a home-video.) If you need a remastered ultimate edition, then you will just have to wait a little bit. I will. You can put down the torches and pitchforks, WB doesn't need any pursuasion to make a better re-release of these films, because they already plan to do so, always have, and have never kept it a secret.

People need to realize that at the same time, WB has been under heavy market pressure to "Release It Now!" and to "Release it in pristine, remastered, ultimate-edition form". It was impossible to do both. This is the "Release It NOW!" version. The other version is coming. They had to do it this way... it doesn't make them "bad" or "incompetent", it just means they had to throw a bone to an impatient majority. I'll wait until they screw up the ultimate-edition before I'm ready to nail them to the wall.

Well said.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

Yep. People complained. Warner Bros. listened. Pretty much everything they release now has a lossless audio track, minus tv shows.

Warner listened to complaints? Imagine that.

[P@t_Mtl]

I do agree with the last few posts, the DVD releases of LOTR were far from being the greatest ever. I always found them to be a bit weak on picture quality. So I do have a hard time accepting the comments from some that the DVD are better then this Blu-ray release.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

I haven't seen one person claim that.

The LotR DVD's were horrendous.

People are saying that Fellowship is a very, very lackluster release - not that it's worse than the DVD release. One look when comparing it to the 8 year old (think about that) HDTV version will tell you why.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

I haven't seen one person claim that.

The LotR DVD's were horrendous.

People are saying that Fellowship is a very, very lackluster release - not that it's worse than the DVD release. One look when comparing it to the 8 year old (think about that) HDTV version will tell you why.

I have heard it and not just from a few. Most people I know have the EE sets and they always mention how the movie is excellent but the DVD is horrible. I was by far one of the least well produce DVD I saw for such a big movie. No matter how bad one want's to say the Blu-ray set look's bad it still 100% better looking than the DVD.

[Chordata]

I think you two agree with each other:

FOTR is not a great BD, but it's an upgrade over the DVD, which itself was not a great DVD.

[Blu Nick]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

I haven't seen one person claim that.

The LotR DVD's were horrendous.

Nonsense.Whilst i'd admit that the DVD version of FOTR was average at best the TT and ROTK DVD's were superb.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by marvinski

One things for sure: I'm going to watch these Movies In Motion & certainly not Frame by Frame!

I'm sure if I look at some Movies frame by frame that got a 4 or 4,5 PQ rating I can still come up with some minor imperfections that no one gives a fuss about when watched In Motion!

That is exactly the problem. Assuming you know what to look for, it becomes painfuly obvious in motion. At the same time, once you start noticing these issues, you cant not notice them

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Blu Nick

Nonsense.Whilst i'd admit that the DVD version of FOTR was average at best the TT and ROTK DVD's were superb.

All three movies on DVD are below average. I have TV series on DVD from the 70's that upscale better then these 3 movies. At first I tought it was just my Samsung player that was the trouble. I knew the DVD were never amazing but I expected something better on upscaling. Then I bought a Sony player, one of the best machine for upscaling and it still look below average. The movies never look good on home video releases. I am not sure if it's something to do with the way they were done, I am not truly an expert on film stock and techniques but it does make me wonder just how good they can make them look on Blu-ray. I am still not expecting much of the EE since that is the release that really interest me, I never wanted to TE.

[Chordata]

Before I take the ill-advised plunge next Tuesday, are you guys saying the Extended Edition DVDs were technically "upgrades" over the Theatrical Editions?

If that's the case, I would assume I can expect the same "upgrade" for the BD EEs.

In that case, no way I'm buying now.

[Q?]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Before I take the ill-advised plunge next Tuesday, are you guys saying the Extended Edition DVDs were technically "upgrades" over the Theatrical Editions?

If that's the case, I would assume I can expect the same "upgrade" for the BD EEs.

In that case, no way I'm buying now.

Come on man, it could be Gladiator all over again

I'm still undecided, I fear that I will be too weak for this particular release...

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by Q!

Come on man, it could be Gladiator all over again

I'm still undecided, I fear that I will be too weak for this particular release...

It was a no-brainer for me originally: buy these releases next week.

But if the EEs are supposed to be technically superior, then I'll wait.

If they just contain added scenes, I won't.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Before I take the ill-advised plunge next Tuesday, are you guys saying the Extended Edition DVDs were technically "upgrades" over the Theatrical Editions?

If that's the case, I would assume I can expect the same "upgrade" for the BD EEs.

In that case, no way I'm buying now.

I have the EE and saw the TE and I did not see such a great PQ from the TE DVD. They were both very subpar on PQ IMO. Far from being the best DVD releases in history. Like I said it surprising considering the movie but it make's one wonder if maybe the way it was done make's it hard to make such a good release on home video??

[kurtlingle]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Yes, the original 3 movies look amazing already up converted. I think we can expect Lucasfilm to deliver on the PQ side and AQ side of a Blu-ray release of all 6 Star Wars movies. That as never been a major worry for me

Yes, the PQ on SW will be fine. I wonder if they will fix any of the older effects (the ones they already touched up).

I also wonder if they will fix Yoda in Ep 1. He just looks terrible in that one. I also wonder if they will mess with the OT at all. I don't mind the changes so far - I'd prefer if they redid them to look better. Also, I think they should fix the OBi vs DV scene - make the LS brighter - better colors (if possible).

[radagast]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I have heard it and not just from a few. Most people I know have the EE sets and they always mention how the movie is excellent but the DVD is horrible. I was by far one of the least well produce DVD I saw for such a big movie. No matter how bad one want's to say the Blu-ray set look's bad it still 100% better looking than the DVD.

At the time they came out, I never read ONE complaint about the quality of the DVD releases. Quite the opposite. Everything I read, praised the DVDs for the quality, especially how it shifted layers. For a dvd, it had good PQ. I'm talking about the time before upscaling.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by radagast

At the time they came out, I never read ONE complaint about the quality of the DVD releases. Quite the opposite. Everything I read, praised the DVDs for the quality, especially how it shifted layers. For a dvd, it had good PQ. I'm talking about the time before upscaling.

I was never impress with them and believe me I am not a nitpicker I always felt the PQ was very low on these.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by radagast

At the time they came out, I never read ONE complaint about the quality of the DVD releases. Quite the opposite. Everything I read, praised the DVDs for the quality, especially how it shifted layers. For a dvd, it had good PQ. I'm talking about the time before upscaling.

Ok, but were the EEs "technically superior" to the TEs?

That seems to me to be the critical question here.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Ok, but were the EEs "technically superior" to the TEs?

That seems to me to be the critical question here.

In sound yes, in video more or less the same.

[DaViD Boulet]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

If you have the old DVDs from 2001-2004, you should take another look at them:

The PQ on FotR is distinctly inferior to that of the other two films. Every complaint in the review of the blu-ray of FotR is something that is also present in the DVD version. Why? Because the original post-production on FotR was not as good as on the other two films. It was a learning process for them, and their deadlines were next to impossible. As awesome and pains-taking as these films were made, they were rushed. For a couple years there, they had a film or two on release simultaneous with pick-up shooting and post-production on another (or two); post-production on RotK continued past every deadline pretty much all the way up to the release date, they had to use workprints for the pre-release exhibitions, (often to their great embarrassment: ever hear about the upside-down-Pelennor-fields-battle at the New York premiere?) There is visible image-inconsistency from one film to the next, always was. For crying out loud... the Gollum in FotR is completely different from in the other two: at the time of release, New Line still hadn't even given them a greenlight on Mo-Capping Andy Serkis, they were pushing for a free-animation of Gollum.

I haven't seen the Blu-ray yet, obviously, but I think WB is being unfairly crucified over what can't be helped. Is there detectable DNR? Probably, but if you really want to be a dick about that, well the fact is that most blu-rays do have some DNR, and if that's a dealbreaker for you, then you're beating your head against the wall, and you should probably just take a pass on blu-ray altogether. Good Lord! That has quickly become the poser's mantra around here: "I can detect DNR in this release... it is less than perfect, and my perception is awesome! Let us boycott the evil WB, for they have introduced imperfection into the perfect world of blu-ray!" Get over yourselves! Stop patting yourself on the back just because you can spot differences in picture quality. Most of you can't tell the difference between digital noise, film grain, broadcast interference, and just plain white noise.
Films have visible differences in picture, because they are not all filmed under identical conditions. Did you need blu-ray to figure that out?
Could WB have done a better job on this release? Again, probably... but this is a generic release, it's not a serious remastering, not an ultimate edition, it's just a VC-1 encoding of the same scan they used to make the 2002-2004 DVDs. Peter Jackson and Weta digital were not in a position to do any meaningful work on this release, but they have always expressed an intention to do so at the first opportunity, (Jackson has said he would put in work on an ultimate edition as soon as they were at a point in working on 'The Hobbit' where Weta is in full "Middle-Earth mode" but could still afford to appropriate resources to work on a home-video.) If you need a remastered ultimate edition, then you will just have to wait a little bit. I will. You can put down the torches and pitchforks, WB doesn't need any pursuasion to make a better re-release of these films, because they already plan to do so, always have, and have never kept it a secret.

People need to realize that at the same time, WB has been under heavy market pressure to "Release It Now!" and to "Release it in pristine, remastered, ultimate-edition form". It was impossible to do both. This is the "Release It NOW!" version. The other version is coming. They had to do it this way... it doesn't make them "bad" or "incompetent", it just means they had to throw a bone to an impatient majority. I'll wait until they screw up the ultimate-edition before I'm ready to nail them to the wall.

all of that is true. But it in no way defends the practice of further compromising the detail in the first film by applied DNR/DRS versus what is seen with the less filtered/processed HDTV encode.

[radagast]

I can't wait until PJ converts these films to 3D. The thread that will generate will make this one look tiny in comparison.