Coronavirus (NO POLITICAL OR SOCIAL COMMENTARY PLEASE)

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Cinema84

How long will it be before stores will have to hire bouncers to keep people in check? Asking a low-paid and, perhaps, middle-aged or older female greeter to take charge of security and deal with hotheads won't cut it much longer. Then you have extreme cases like that Michigan Family Dollar incident.

Why not? I think they should hire the bouncers who are currently out of work because no bars/clubs are open. Those guys are a helluva lot more intimidating than some overweight old wanna-be/used-to-be cop that is currently there.

They don't even need the gun. The ones I know are imposing enough that you know not to screw with them.

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Looks like we finally have an approved antibody test in Canada...doesn't specify its accuracy however.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/covid...test-1.5567243

If it's anything like ours, it's pretty irrelevant.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Maybe I missed it, but where in the article does it say doctors are seeing a change in symptoms from before?

"Then he just woke up with both his legs numb and cold and so weak he couldn't walk."

Coronavirus can cause blood clots

This relatively young man (38-year old) had an aortic occlusion -- a big blood clot in the body's main artery, right above where it splits into two parts to run into each leg. Blood was not getting into the iliac arteries and his legs were being starved.

Doctors treating coronavirus patients are seeing a range of odd and frightening syndromes, including blood clots of all sizes throughout the body, kidney failure, heart inflammation and immune complications.

But the virus also seems to attack some organs directly. One of the most troubling is its assault on the lining of the blood vessels, which in turn causes unnatural blood clotting.

"Obviously, every single organ in your body is fed by blood vessels, so if the virus affects your blood vessels, then you can have organ damage," he said.

"It is a very confusing picture. It's going to take time to understand," Brakenridge said.

A study published in the journal Nature Medicine on Tuesday supported both theories.

Dr. Zheng Zhang and colleagues at Shenzhen Third People's Hospital in Shenzhen, China analyzed samples of immune cells taken from the lungs of nine coronavirus patients and found abnormally high levels of immune cells called macrophages and neutrophils, as well as immune signaling chemicals called cytokines and chemokines in the sicker patients. Sicker patients also had high levels of proliferating T-cells, another type of immune cell.

But the patients with the most severe symptoms had lower numbers of CD8 T-cells, which directly kill virus-infected cells.

Doctors say they are finding that various treatments can help control symptoms. Blood thinners can help control the unusual blood clotting, while immune blockers may help control the cytokine storm.

It can cause 'COVID toes'

One last symptom that is puzzling -- but less troubling -- is known as "COVID toes." Patients are reporting red or purple swelling of their toes.

Brief it's all there black on white...blood clots destroying all organs.

Here...not from CNN but from the Canadian source.
• https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...body-1.4937374

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Getting physical first, escalating the situation? No, absolutely not. But when the customer acts up and gets violent, then what?

We've seen what happens when employees ask mask-less customers to leave if they don't put a mask on. The customers become abusive. People are unstable these days anyways, and even more likely to fly off the handle currently as they are totally stressed. I have a feeling if an officer asks a customer to leave, they will, and that will be the end of it. I'm not saying they should get physical and drag them out of the store. Just ask them to leave, and their presence should be all that's required. If an employee asks, they end up getting assaulted or shot. Do you think that employee would have been shot at the Dollar store if an officer had asked them to leave? Pretty sure we know what the answer is.

I have a serious problem with the stories I read about officers escalating the situation when uncalled for, leading to stories on CNN. They should be better trained to understand how to avoid escalating a situation. That's another discussion though.

But what are we to do when employees fear for their lives? One store was closed the other day on Cape Cod after just opening earlier that day, because the employees were afraid of the customers getting aggressive. If people are going to act like animals, then they are going to need to be controlled like animals.

If that's how people are in certain areas, then there should be armed security to begin with. I mean come on, people getting violent because they were asked to leave for not wearing a mask? How often it that happening?

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

But what if they get in your face and you CAN'T maintain your distance? What if they start start spitting, throwing punches, and -- God forbid -- pull a dun or a knife? Calling the cops won't make much of a difference if you already have a knife sticking out of your sternum.

As I said, those places should have security already in place if it's like that. Some areas of the country are just more dangerous than others.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by bruceames

As I said, those places should have security already in place if it's like that. Some areas of the country are just more dangerous than others.

The point is places that normally don't have problems are now having problems because nutcases are triggered right now and are ready to snap with very little provocation.

Sine when is Cape Cod known as a dangerous place to live with lots of violence? I grew up on the Cape and it was peaceful and quiet. Granted that was decades ago, but we're talking about the Cape here, not the Bronx, yet even on the Cape we're reading about violent customers causing a restaurant to close out of fear.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

"One thing that is both curious and evolving and frustrating is that this disease is manifesting itself in so many different ways,"

Look to all the articles about kids in NY suddenly getting sick and dying - and not from respiratory failure.

So they think the virus is mutating and getting deadlier? Was confused because you said this was getting to be like the Spanish flu (where the second wave was far more deadly).

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by mar3o

The point is places that normally don't have problems are now having problems because nutcases are triggered right now and are ready to snap with very little provocation.

Sine when is Cape Cod known as a dangerous place to live with lots of violence? I grew up on the Cape and it was peaceful and quiet. Granted that was decades ago, but we're talking about the Cape here, not the Bronx, yet even on the Cape we're reading about violent customers causing a restaurant to close out of fear.

So what's your solution? Have armed guards at every store open for business under the government's dime? Because most of these businesses that haven't opened yet won't be able to afford them.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

And FOX articles are what lead to mask-less customers who refuse to leave.

I meant CNN generically as the media in general. It could be Fox too, but I rarely check out that site and CNN just came to mind because they seem to have the most stories.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by bruceames

So what's your solution? Have armed guards at every store open for business under the government's dime? Because most of these businesses that haven't opened yet won't be able to afford them.

I'm not claiming to have all the answers.

I'm simply saying if store employees feel threatened, they may want to consider getting help. Either get a bouncer that looks intimidating or hire some police help. Because saying "call the police if there's a problem" doesn't work when angry customers are attacking employees just for asking them to adhere to store/local/state policies.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Batman1980

Some stores already have bouncer types but it doesn't matter that much right now because most stores are closed. I do think we might eventually see what happened in Wal-Marts, a police unit at the front of most stores. Idiots will think twice about doing anything questionable with an armed officer staring at them.

Last time I went to a bank there was a security guard in uniform, but without a gun (Canada).
Inside the bank only one teller (that was extremely slow). You need to be very very very patient, and same thing with the ATM bank machine (Canada).

Wal-Mart didn't have any, only personal staff to help also (Canada).
One guy complained to a new young woman staffer about their lineup policy.
It wasn't dramatic but surely different. I didn't interfere because it wasn't worth it (this must happened several times everyday).

It's not easy for anyone; everything has changed...100%
The best we can do is to follow the new rules and lineup with social distancing and a mask. Food is priority, more than toys, more than movies on Blu ...

• https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/13/busin...ces/index.html

Before paying big bucks for that highly coveted 4K Steel Blu-ray movie title, you might want to think twice about the price of food later on ...
Last time I went grocery shopping I noticed some items more expensive than usual...lettuce, tomatoes, avocados, cucumbers, steaks, wheat crackers, ..
My total cost was substantially higher than usual. ...Not all items but still a fair bunch.
And couple months from now I'm expecting this trend to continue higher.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I'm not claiming to have all the answers.

I'm simply saying if store employees feel threatened, they may want to consider getting help. Either get a bouncer that looks intimidating or hire some police help. Because saying "call the police if there's a problem" doesn't work when angry customers are attacking employees just for asking them to adhere to store/local/state policies.

Not sure really what is happening in those cases as we're only hearing one side of the story (regarding exactly what took place that led to the violence). But it would seem rather extreme if they were asked politely not to enter and then did not try to block that person from entering. A person who refuses to adhere rules for entering a store is potentially dangerous and should be treated as a threat. Of course, if armed security is already there, then they can deal with it before they enter.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Looks like we finally have an approved antibody test in Canada...doesn't specify its accuracy however.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/covid...test-1.5567243

One million tested people in two years...fingers crossed with plenty of patient(ce).

We need a vaccine to kill Corona for good once and for all. Time is ticking ...

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Who's going to pay for these armed officers? I really don't want to walk around in a military-like state just because a few people refuse to wear masks. If it's such a big deal then have the greeter call the cops.

Stimulus emergency money from the government. Preventive security measures for the good of the population during a pandemic. More cops, more army personal.
We are basically @ war. ...With a very nasty vicious virus killer.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Stimulus emergency money from the government. Preventive security measures for the good of the population during a pandemic. More cops, more army personal.
We are basically @ war. ...With a very nasty vicious virus killer.

Billions spent to create a police state to enforce mask use? Not in the U.S.

I'm as pro-mask as anybody, but that's going too far.

[InuYashaCrusade]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

But what if they get in your face and you CAN'T maintain your distance? What if they start start spitting, throwing punches, and -- God forbid -- pull a dun or a knife? Calling the cops won't make much of a difference if you already have a knife sticking out of your sternum.

That's where self defense comes into play.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Billions spent to create a police state to enforce mask use? Not in the U.S.

I'm as pro-mask as anybody, but that's going too far.

I wasn't specifically relating to enforcing masks use because where I live it's not yet the law.
But staying 6 feet from people in lineups @ grocery stores and banks and other commercial enterprises is the new normal. And each establishment have their directives and people (staff) working to instruct those directives. Like I saw last time I went grocery shopping.
Not everyone is on the same page; it takes time, understanding, adaptation, ...all that new jazz fusion.

About masks: I asked several places if they have masks...zero masks for sale!
Methinks it would be a good idea to sell them everywhere where people go...grocery shopping stores, banks, home depots, Canadian Tire stores, liquor stores, Bell, Rogers, Telus communication stores, Salvation Army stores, Red Cross, Federal buildings, online from all the people we buy from, and make their businesses as profitable as they are.
...Cell phone, telephone companies, electricity companies, solar energy companies, wind turbines companies, electric car dealers, gas car dealers, gas stations, fast food pick ups, ... masks should be avail almost everywhere where people are gathering, serious, conscientious, intelligent and compassionate human beings with a a heart and soul.
Brief people who are into a healthy society...work, play, world...planet of humans in time of pandemics.

One of these days ... (The Honeymooners).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw0z...ature=youtu.be

[bruceames]

They had quite a few masks (cloth) at the local hardware store. Haven't looked for any elsewhere, but they had quite a selection on the front display rack where people queue up to pay. They were around $10 for a reusable cloth mask and $10 for a 10 pack of disposable masks. A little high, but at least they had them.

Hopefully they'll become so widely available that stores can give disposable ones to customers who show up without one. It would be a better scenario to offer a mask so that they can enter, rather than just refuse entrance.

[philzilla]

Originally Posted by bruceames

If that's how people are in certain areas, then there should be armed security to begin with. I mean come on, people getting violent because they were asked to leave for not wearing a mask? How often it that happening?

Originally Posted by bruceames

As I said, those places should have security already in place if it's like that. Some areas of the country are just more dangerous than others.

Originally Posted by bruceames

So what's your solution? Have armed guards at every store open for business under the government's dime? Because most of these businesses that haven't opened yet won't be able to afford them.

Originally Posted by bruceames

I meant CNN generically as the media in general. It could be Fox too, but I rarely check out that site and CNN just came to mind because they seem to have the most stories.

Originally Posted by bruceames

Not sure really what is happening in those cases as we're only hearing one side of the story (regarding exactly what took place that led to the violence). But it would seem rather extreme if they were asked politely not to enter and then did not try to block that person from entering. A person who refuses to adhere rules for entering a store is potentially dangerous and should be treated as a threat. Of course, if armed security is already there, then they can deal with it before they enter.

Originally Posted by bruceames

Billions spent to create a police state to enforce mask use? Not in the U.S.

I'm as pro-mask as anybody, but that's going too far.

Originally Posted by bruceames

They had quite a few masks (cloth) at the local hardware store. Haven't looked for any elsewhere, but they had quite a selection on the front display rack where people queue up to pay. They were around $10 for a reusable cloth mask and $10 for a 10 pack of disposable masks. A little high, but at least they had them.

Hopefully they'll become so widely available that stores can give disposable ones to customers who show up without one. It would be a better scenario to offer a mask so that they can enter, rather than just refuse entrance.

Originally Posted by bruceames

So they think the virus is mutating and getting deadlier? Was confused because you said this was getting to be like the Spanish flu (where the second wave was far more deadly).

you should learn to multi-quote

[Pondosinatra]

Covid almost kills Ebola expert...

"a scientific study yesterday that concluded you have a 30% chance of dying if you end up in a British hospital with Covid-19. That’s about the same overall mortality rate as for Ebola in 2014 in west Africa.”

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...rus-peter-piot

[chip75]

The restaurant thing is easy enough, either provide masks at the door to all customers who need them (supermarkets will have to do this as well) and/or have someone blocking the entrance like the do at nightclubs (with one of those rope things, people seem to respect those), people can't just walk in anymore, so they should be a necessity, refusal to wear a mask means refusal of entrance.

An eight-foot bouncer is optional.