Coronavirus (NO POLITICAL OR SOCIAL COMMENTARY PLEASE)

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Cinema84

Bus drivers don't turn their heads around when they shout at someone - they're looking at the rearview mirror and shouting in the forward direction. Any "germs" will go to the windshield Plus, they've cordoned off the front of the bus so there's no real danger of contamination from a bus driver if they do turn around and shout.

Coronavirus cannot bounce back from interior glass windshield?
And bus drivers don't have a small mic to talk to passengers?
I'm sure bus drivers are all wearing a mask for maximum safety of their passengers.

Me, I wouldn't travel by bus in big cities. I know for some it's impossible.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Coronavirus cannot bounce back from interior glass windshield?
And bus drivers don't have a small mic to talk to passengers?
I'm sure bus drivers are all wearing a mask for maximum safety of their passengers.

Me, I wouldn't travel by bus in big cities. I know for some it's impossible.

Droplets can't bounce off surfaces, and aerosols could only be an issue if the windows were up and no air circulating.

Surface contamination has been overblown for quite some time. It's very uncommon. Some leading experts aren't even bothering to address it anymore when talking about risk factors.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

well, to be fair to the media, listening to the video, I think the reporter said “as many as”
and when it comes to morbidity and mortality in medicine, it’s best practice to prepare for the worst and hope for the best

I guess it depends on the person. The vulnerable will feel more risk averse and rightfully so. But knowing the risks will help mitigate the fear. Fear is very stressful and not healthy.

[Pondosinatra]

Hey....I was at this concert...Before Covid!

I spent a sh*t tonne of money to fly across the country to see them. But in hindsight...best decision...ever...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCOfU7nVuuM

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by MrHT

We have the highest number of positive cases, by far, over any other country. In fact, we have more than Brazil, Russia, India & UK COMBINED!!!

NYC has reopened. Go out and get some fresh air. Talk to other people. It'll do you good. Oh, and turn off CNN for a while. Watch Netflix

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Wow, did everyone see that lung in that 20-year old young woman?

scary, that is what a lot of people don't get, not everyone dies fast from this but the scarring it causes is permanent.

[Bigdog]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Hey....I was at this concert...Before Covid!

I spent a sh*t tonne of money to fly across the country to see them. But in hindsight...best decision...ever...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCOfU7nVuuM

Nice, I have seen them 12 times now throughout the years, always a good show, up there with Metallica if not a little better imo in terms of a live performance.

[bruceames]

Wow, Utah just expanded the indoor gathering limit to 3,000 people and outdoors to 6,000. I have a race there in late September and only about 350 people so it definitely looks like a go.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/6/...gw37bul13xJCgg

[MrHT]

Originally Posted by Cinema84

NYC has reopened. Go out and get some fresh air. Talk to other people. It'll do you good. Oh, and turn off CNN for a while. Watch Netflix

Yeah that’s what I’ve been doing. Apparently the pandemic here is over. Half of people here in Queens aren’t wearing masks anymore and people don’t seem to want to social distance anymore. People are acting as if life is back to normal.

[MazeRunner]

Pretty sure the Midwest is acting like the virus is over with.

Went to some Dollar Trees yesterday and the first one was madness. Huge lines at the checkouts, no one wearing masks (not even workers), everyone all super close together. A man was a few inches behind me in line.

Social distancing who?

[bruceames]

They are certainly more comfortable to wear, easier to breathe through, and people can see your mouth when you talk. I wonder if these can be worn in stores instead of masks? (where masks are required)

https://nationalpost.com/news/what-t...-19-protection

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bruceames

I guess it depends on the person. The vulnerable will feel more risk averse and rightfully so. But knowing the risks will help mitigate the fear. Fear is very stressful and not healthy.

Oh, from what I’ve seen personally in my local neighborhood(s) and from other states on the news –

CDC forecasts 140K deaths by July | WNT - YouTube

I think, unless one has a loved one who has passed, or gotten very sick from COVID-19, or one carries additive significant comorbidities to increase risk, a good chunk of our society could use with a bit more ‘fear’ than complacency because the later, either due to cognitive dissonance or outright defiance, has resulted in a lot of people now not exhibiting the discipline to abide by public health guidelines as to wearing a mask and social distancing in the process of opening up.

You sort of see the same nonchalant attitude occurring with other diseases and their prevention, e.g. ‘hey, the chances of me getting colon cancer are slim, so I don’t want no colonoscopy’ and the next thing you know, they, or someone in their family with the same sentiment comes down with metastatic colon CA years later.

[Pondosinatra]

Majority of cases in Alberta are now people under age 40...

Also, apparently there's a loophole idiots to the south of us are using to come vacation here...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...carr-1.5610417

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Oh, from what I’ve seen personally in my local neighborhood(s) and from other states on the news –

CDC forecasts 140K deaths by July | WNT - YouTube

I think, unless one has a loved one who has passed, or gotten very sick from COVID-19, or one carries additive significant comorbidities to increase risk, a good chunk of our society could use with a bit more ‘fear’ than complacency because the later, either due to cognitive dissonance or outright defiance, has resulted in a lot of people now not exhibiting the discipline to abide by public health guidelines as to wearing a mask and social distancing in the process of opening up.

You sort of see the same nonchalant attitude occurring with other diseases and their prevention, e.g. ‘hey, the chances of me getting colon cancer are slim, so I don’t want no colonoscopy’ and the next thing you know, they, or someone in their family with the same sentiment comes down with metastatic colon CA years later.

My point was that being knowledgeable about what the risks are will help allay those fears. A lot has been learned in the last 3 months. Not excusing the irresponsible behavior from others at all.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Droplets can't bounce off surfaces, and aerosols could only be an issue if the windows were up and no air circulating.

Surface contamination has been overblown for quite some time. It's very uncommon. Some leading experts aren't even bothering to address it anymore when talking about risk factors.

On surface contamination; some banks sanitize the counter after each customer.
In some grocery stores I've seen the same.
In some countries they sanitize the planes, the buses, the streets, the street signs, the museums, the theaters, the public buildings, the escalators, the ramps, the floors, the walls, inside hospitals, medical clinics, etc. I simply don't know the efficiency extent of those precautions but looking @ countries doing it they are among the lowest number of deaths.
...The ones that started the earliest.

As for the virus bouncing off glass it was a humorous hypothetical question.
Like you said it's in the air (aerosols) and it can travel in all directions if one is infected and yelling @ others no matter which direction he's yelling (through his rearview mirror...in a bus). In winter the doors are closed, the heather on. In summer the windows are closed, the air conditioning on. In some countries the bus windows are all open, and it's over 100° Fahrenheit inside with everyone sweating and over-cooking.

* This COVID-19 is so new to the health experts that it's where it is today, worldwide.
Nowadays killing roughly 5,000 people (more or less) per day. And nobody knows how accurate those numbers are. We've seen 8,000+ deaths a day before and we've seen 3,000 deaths a day recently. Always worldwide, not in Canada, not in the UK, not in Brazil, not in India, not in South Africa, not in Italy, not in Mexico, not in the USA...but worldwide.

In the US alone on last count 88 nurses died from the Coronavirus...a while ago.
Worldwide over 6,000 nurses died. I think those numbers include few doctors too.

No matter how we look @ it from any angle, any surface, any language, any country in the world, any people, it's a war zone in many areas that keeps expanding, escalating (up & down), touching different areas with time (world regions), and we just don't know enough (even the scientist experts), about when the next waves and regions will be next.
We don't know how long this will last all together, months, years, several years...we just don't know, and the same for a vaccine with the percentage of efficiency and exactly when...2021.

What we know right now: Brazil is fighting real hard, and we look @ the news from there and the people how they react...it's really not pretty. Just recently @ one of the most famous beaches in Brazil.

Mexico also is fighting real hard.

Check South Africa, check India, check Pakistan, check Peru, Colombia, check the places that are expanding today as compared to yesterday...Russia, Indonesia, ...

We are only in mid-June, not even six months into this pandemic.
The Fall season only comes after the Summer season, and then Winter.
The more people that get infected worlwide (and there are), the more chances we see some more not able to cope with this very nasty deadly virus.

We just don't know exactly, we learn as we go each and every day.
Some countries are doing pretty good...Australia. But what would it look like say in three months, six, a year? The same for Canada, Brazil, Mexico, USA, UK, Russia, India, South Africa, etcetera.

It is this incertidude of not knowing what tomorrow brings that is very disconcerting realistically. We do our best but our best sometimes just ain't enough. What can we do better than what we just don't know? Check the stats, listen to the health experts scientists advices, responsibility as individuals and as worldwide human species.

It's a wakeup call to the next worse pandemic that will affect all ages equally.
And we're not even out of the woods with this one.

I mentioned this before; ask nurses and doctors who are on the front lines...the ones alive, and the ones who are no longer. I think it's the best way to fully comprehend the true extent.
Nurses who finished their shift @ night and go home and see masses of protesters in the streets are overwhelmed with tears and totally powerless and it's very very tough to wake up the next day and do it all over again.

Us in our homes with our Blu-ray movie collections, and our stimulus cheques, and wearing our material masks, and plexiglass shields, and keeping 2 meters distance from each other in public places, @ the beaches, in the streets protesting for justice worldwide, ... we are not in those real war zones (hospitals) where in some regions many people die.
So the people who try to save them they see what's going on with all these masses of people assembling and protesting worldwide, and they see no end to the war they are fighting in their hospitals.

Meanwhile we are waiting for our Blu-ray movies to be delivered and we are worrying by the delays in deliveries. ...Days, weeks. I talked to a UPS guy last month; they are completely overworked, weeks behind, they need more trucks, more delivery truck drivers, ...
Amazon ... it must be like a "zoo" in their warehouses.

This is not just in America, it's everywhere in the whole planet Earth.
We take it as best as we can, one day @ a time, happy to be alive each one after the next, and learning more as we go, and adapting more as we go, and relearning to live with real values...health, respect of life, our world, respect of all people, human compassion, all for a better world to come after tomorrow.

8K OLED and QLED TVs won't resurrect the dead ... figure of realistic speech.
I have no illusion; after this pandemic another one more powerful will hit Earth.
And when is after?

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Oh, from what I’ve seen personally in my local neighborhood(s) and from other states on the news –

CDC forecasts 140K deaths by July | WNT - YouTube

I think, unless one has a loved one who has passed, or gotten very sick from COVID-19, or one carries additive significant comorbidities to increase risk, a good chunk of our society could use with a bit more ‘fear’ than complacency because the later, either due to cognitive dissonance or outright defiance, has resulted in a lot of people now not exhibiting the discipline to abide by public health guidelines as to wearing a mask and social distancing in the process of opening up.

You sort of see the same nonchalant attitude occurring with other diseases and their prevention, e.g. ‘hey, the chances of me getting colon cancer are slim, so I don’t want no colonoscopy’ and the next thing you know, they, or someone in their family with the same sentiment comes down with metastatic colon CA years later.

Penton, I know you're a man of numbers, like I.
Did they also mention any number for the 4th of August, 4th of September, 4th of October, 4th of November, ...by the end of December 2020?

I like what you said before: Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

[bruceames]

Fewer younger people (under 45) are dying of the disease, down from 4 to 5 percent of deaths to less than 2 percent today. Meanwhile those over 65 have gone from around 50 percent in March to over 60 percent today.




WSJ article in spoilers.

[Show spoiler]

By now it’s clear that people older than 65 are the most vulnerable to the novel coronavirus, and the age penalty is especially severe for the elderly with underlying health conditions. This is a tragedy in lives cut short, but it also means that states and cities should be able to lift their lockdowns safely if they focus on protecting vulnerable Americans.

About 80% of Americans who have died of Covid-19 are older than 65, and the median age is 80. A review by Stanford medical professor John Ioannidis last month found that individuals under age 65 accounted for 4.8% to 9.3% of all Covid-19 deaths in 10 European countries and 7.8% to 23.9% in 12 U.S. locations.

For most people under the age of 65, the study found, the risk of dying from Covid-19 isn’t much higher than from getting in a car accident driving to work. In California and Florida, the fatality risk for the under-65 crowd is about equal to driving 16 to 17 miles per day. While higher in hot spots like New York (668 miles) and New Jersey (572 miles), the death risk is still lower than the public perceives.

The risk climbs especially for those over age 80. According to the Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity, Americans over 85 are about 2.75 times more likely to die from Covid-19 than those 75 to 84, seven times more likely than those 65 to 74 and 16.8 times more than those 55 to 64.

Fatality rate comparisons between Covid-19 and the flu are inapt because they affect populations differently. Children under age 14 are between 6.8 and 17 times less likely to die of Covid-19 than the seasonal flu or pneumonia, assuming 150,000 coronavirus deaths this year. Those 25 to 85 are two to four times more likely to die of Covid while those over 85 are about 1.7 times more likely.

As treatments have improved over the course of the pandemic, fewer young people are dying. In late March, Americans over age 75 made up about half of all weekly deaths (see chart nearby) while those under 45 made up between four and five percent. Now those over 75 make up about two-thirds of deaths while those younger than 45 make up less than 2%.

Older people generally have weaker immune systems and more have underlying respiratory and cardiovascular conditions that appear to exacerbate the illness. More than 95% of people who have died in the United Kingdom had at least one underlying condition. Italian public-health officials have also reported that 96% of deaths involved one chronic condition, and 60% had three or more.

Nursing homes are especially vulnerable because they have large numbers of elderly in cramped quarters. They now account for more than 50% of Covid-19 fatalities in 30 or so states, including Arizona, Washington, Illinois, Pennsylvania and Massachusetts.

The good news is that most people over age 65 who are in generally good health are unlikely to die or get severely ill from Covid-19. Data from Spain’s national antibody study show that about 92% of those infected from ages 60 to 79 have mild or no symptoms, and only about 6% are hospitalized. Three-quarters of people older than 90 have mild or no symptoms and fewer than 10% die.

Governments can keep down health-care utilization even while letting their economies mostly reopen by protecting vulnerable seniors—for instance, by allocating more protective equipment to nursing homes and frequently testing workers.

This is what Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has been doing, and the Sunshine State last month had about a third as many new hospitalizations per capita as New York, which remained mostly shut down. Lifting lockdowns doesn’t have to result in a repeat of the March rampages through nursing homes.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-cov...ty-11592003287

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

[Show spoiler]On surface contamination; some banks sanitize the counter after each customer.
In some grocery stores I've seen the same.
In some countries they sanitize the planes, the buses, the streets, the street signs, the museums, the theaters, the public buildings, the escalators, the ramps, the floors, the walls, inside hospitals, medical clinics, etc. I simply don't know the efficiency extent of those precautions but looking @ countries doing it they are among the lowest number of deaths.
...The ones that started the earliest.

As for the virus bouncing off glass it was a humorous hypothetical question.
Like you said it's in the air (aerosols) and it can travel in all directions if one is infected and yelling @ others no matter which direction he's yelling (through his rearview mirror...in a bus). In winter the doors are closed, the heather on. In summer the windows are closed, the air conditioning on. In some countries the bus windows are all open, and it's over 100° Fahrenheit inside with everyone sweating and over-cooking.

* This COVID-19 is so new to the health experts that it's where it is today, worldwide.
Nowadays killing roughly 5,000 people (more or less) per day. And nobody knows how accurate those numbers are. We've seen 8,000+ deaths a day before and we've seen 3,000 deaths a day recently. Always worldwide, not in Canada, not in the UK, not in Brazil, not in India, not in South Africa, not in Italy, not in Mexico, not in the USA...but worldwide.

In the US alone on last count 88 nurses died from the Coronavirus...a while ago.
Worldwide over 6,000 nurses died. I think those numbers include few doctors too.

No matter how we look @ it from any angle, any surface, any language, any country in the world, any people, it's a war zone in many areas that keeps expanding, escalating (up & down), touching different areas with time (world regions), and we just don't know enough (even the scientist experts), about when the next waves and regions will be next.
We don't know how long this will last all together, months, years, several years...we just don't know, and the same for a vaccine with the percentage of efficiency and exactly when...2021.

What we know right now: Brazil is fighting real hard, and we look @ the news from there and the people how they react...it's really not pretty. Just recently @ one of the most famous beaches in Brazil.

Mexico also is fighting real hard.

Check South Africa, check India, check Pakistan, check Peru, Colombia, check the places that are expanding today as compared to yesterday...Russia, Indonesia, ...

We are only in mid-June, not even six months into this pandemic.
The Fall season only comes after the Summer season, and then Winter.
The more people that get infected worlwide (and there are), the more chances we see some more not able to cope with this very nasty deadly virus.

We just don't know exactly, we learn as we go each and every day.
Some countries are doing pretty good...Australia. But what would it look like say in three months, six, a year? The same for Canada, Brazil, Mexico, USA, UK, Russia, India, South Africa, etcetera.

It is this incertidude of not knowing what tomorrow brings that is very disconcerting realistically. We do our best but our best sometimes just ain't enough. What can we do better than what we just don't know? Check the stats, listen to the health experts scientists advices, responsibility as individuals and as worldwide human species.

It's a wakeup call to the next worse pandemic that will affect all ages equally.
And we're not even out of the woods with this one.

I mentioned this before; ask nurses and doctors who are on the front lines...the ones alive, and the ones who are no longer. I think it's the best way to fully comprehend the true extent.
Nurses who finished their shift @ night and go home and see masses of protesters in the streets are overwhelmed with tears and totally powerless and it's very very tough to wake up the next day and do it all over again.

Us in our homes with our Blu-ray movie collections, and our stimulus cheques, and wearing our material masks, and plexiglass shields, and keeping 2 meters distance from each other in public places, @ the beaches, in the streets protesting for justice worldwide, ... we are not in those real war zones (hospitals) where in some regions many people die.
So the people who try to save them they see what's going on with all these masses of people assembling and protesting worldwide, and they see no end to the war they are fighting in their hospitals.

Meanwhile we are waiting for our Blu-ray movies to be delivered and we are worrying by the delays in deliveries. ...Days, weeks. I talked to a UPS guy last month; they are completely overworked, weeks behind, they need more trucks, more delivery truck drivers, ...
Amazon ... it must be like a "zoo" in their warehouses.

This is not just in America, it's everywhere in the whole planet Earth.
We take it as best as we can, one day @ a time, happy to be alive each one after the next, and learning more as we go, and adapting more as we go, and relearning to live with real values...health, respect of life, our world, respect of all people, human compassion, all for a better world to come after tomorrow.

8K OLED and QLED TVs won't resurrect the dead ... figure of realistic speech.
I have no illusion; after this pandemic another one more powerful will hit Earth.
And when is after?

I don't know. Rather than dwell on the severity of what has happened and is happening, I prefer to focus on how things have improved since the peak in the U.S. in April, and what we've learned, to use going forward. We can't change what happened, but we can learn from it.

I can always get the glass half empty viewpoint from the nightly news. They'll always spin the Covid 19 current situation, and outlook, to look much worse than it is. It's good for ratings. Fear sells. A balanced viewpoint...less so.

[deckard82]

Well, deaths have decreased in the US, which is good. But the cases of daily new infections is still high. Higher than you'd want it to be when reopening. But what's done is done. I know that too. But the number of new infections can't be explained with an increase in testing when 20 states have rising numbers in cases and the majority of them have rising numbers in hospitalizations at the same time. I know this pandemic sucks and all the limitations sucked and still suck. But I hope everyone is at least careful. I have friends all over the US and am worried.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by bruceames

I don't know. Rather than dwell on the severity of what has happened and is happening, I prefer to focus on how things have improved since the peak in the U.S. in April, and what we've learned, to use going forward. We can't change what happened, but we can learn from it.

I can always get the glass half empty viewpoint from the nightly news. They'll always spin the Covid 19 current situation, and outlook, to look much worse than it is. It's good for ratings. Fear sells. A balanced viewpoint...less so.

That is exactly why all the world health scientists need the most accurate data possible for the next preventive measures.

Yes indeed we learn from past experiences and mistakes made. There is only one way; forward. And forward is to not repeat past mistakes.

There is nothing for sale, life is not for sale. There is no fear, only the reality of each day we live and die.

We are on the same page. We are moving forward the best we can in the circumstances that were presented to us. Nobody asked for it, it happened and now we deal with it, after almost six months. Tomorrow depends of us, what we do all of us, and everywhere in the world, in everyone's own backyard.

Yesterday I mowed the lawn, today I watch the rain, tomorrow may never come.