The Market Is Torn Apart

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Ok, so you don't think it's doing very well or will do well. Agree to disagree. All this negativity for a new format from people on an enthusiasts forum is simply astounding. I guess Blu-ray underperforming and the rise of streaming has brought it about.

It would be nice to see some more support rather than complaining.

It would be nice to see some manufacturing support rather than hectoring the user base to spend more money.


As I look at my gear, there is no doubt that there is more money invested, by me, than the price of a mid-sized automobile. With the confused technical specifications from the manufacturers (their confusion, not mine...I'm a tech) something doesn't look OR smell right.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by PS3_Kiwi

It does annoy me at the amount of "enthusiasts" looking for reasons to post negative comments. I read the 4K forum every day as I try to soak up any info available which will help me to make an educated decision when I upgrade my hardware.

What "negative comments"? I built my first home theater in 1975. I am looking at a new wave of technical confusion from the manufacturers - including several "innovations" that confuse novices with limited funding like yourself.


Learn whereof you speak before castigating anyone.


Do you know about HDMI 2.2? A lot of people don't. I've actually watched people get hustled into buying $200 cables for it. I've watched people by HDMI 2.0 sets, that were 4K, and couldn't play a 4K disc.


This happens with receivers, televisions, players, the whole gamut. Are those "negative comments", perhaps?


Do you know what HDR is, and how it differs from DolbyVision? Do you know that you were able to get Atmos, and DTS-X, on everything - and can't now? Do you think that's a "negative comment"? Who did that?


You're just building up, and hopefully haven't spent the many thousands it takes to really be an enthusiast. Wait patiently, learn what all this is, and then offer criticism.

[Wiidesire]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Do you know about HDMI 2.2? A lot of people don't.

I don't know anything about HDMI 2.2 either. Please enlighten me

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

3-D required a new television, special glasses, a new player, and a new receiver - at the height of a financial recession. That's what killed it in the home theater market.

We've all got 3D equipment by now I expect but a lot of movie fans simply don't like it enough to actually use it.

Having to wear glasses to watch TV is what killed it for the mass market.

[shireguy]

Originally Posted by montyb

Why so negative? Remember when blu ray first hit the market?
Players over $1000 and only two or three studios supported blu ray format.

The same thing back when DVD was introduced back in March 1997. Everyone (most people) are afraid of change. It happens all the time.

bollocks - everyone is not afraid of 'change' - everyone is not a double dipper, triple dipper into different formats.

DVD was successful for A FEW REASONS : convenience, and the price / availability of titles which could be quickly produced.

Consumers in the main DID NOT buy video cassettes (VHS, Beta) by the numbers that DVDs old. And consumers did not get into the high prices asked for by LaserDisc.

Consumers have remained 'faithful' to DVD instead of seeing the 'benefits' of Blu-ray. Why - because the majority of consumers DON'T go about buying the same thing twice (* of course - we do on here !!!).

Manufacturers are now seeking another upgrade - wow... just look at that 'contrast' - buy me buy me buy me !!

But at the same time you need to BUY a new TV, a new player, new HDMI cables (wow... let's try and rip people off again), and of course, new discs.

best of luck !!


(as for the $1000 Blu players - I don't recall that price ever hitting our shores, and if you were crazy enough to pay that - then you are crazy fullstop. Blu players can be purchased for less than $90 Australian Dollars..... and people still aren't purchasing them....lest the $590 for a UHD Blu player (a Samsung is all that is available)

[KRW1]

DVD wasn't a success overnight. I remember working for a UK video chain at the time and it was touch and go whether or not we'd even stock it. We did, and only had about 12-20 titles for a good six months. People would come in and openly mock them. The chief objections to the format were you needed a new TV to get the best out of it, a new sound system to take advantage of 5.1, and, most importantly, you couldn't record over it. I was told often that last reason would be the reason it wouldn't ever take off.

People didn't really start buying into it until The Matrix hit the format.

Here's a review of the first bluray player - £900 and, of course, you need a £3k screen to get the most out of it. The more things change the more they stay the same.

http://www.cnet.com/uk/products/sams...er-bdp1000xaa/

[bruceames]

Oh noes, teh sky is falling! A new format is here!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by KRW1

DVD wasn't a success overnight. I remember working for a UK video chain at the time and it was touch and go whether or not we'd even stock it. We did, and only had about 12-20 titles for a good six months. People would come in and openly mock them. The chief objections to the format were you needed a new TV to get the best out of it, a new sound system to take advantage of 5.1, and, most importantly, you couldn't record over it. I was told often that last reason would be the reason it wouldn't ever take off.

People didn't really start buying into it until The Matrix hit the format.

Here's a review of the first bluray player - £900 and, of course, you need a £3k screen to get the most out of it. The more things change the more they stay the same.

http://www.cnet.com/uk/products/sams...er-bdp1000xaa/

I remember them days well. I lost count of the amount of people who said they wouldn't get into DVD because it didn't record!

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I remember them days well. I lost count of the amount of people who said they wouldn't get into DVD because it didn't record!

Ha, yeah, and, related, I bet they all said the same thing to you as well when you told them what the 'V' stood for.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by KRW1

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Yup, I've been saying that for a while. While I fully understand where people are coming from re: the cluster**** that is HDR, treating UHD's overall need for a new TV, player, AVR etc as some sort of major black mark against it is remarkably myopic because we've been there several times already. You needed all that when changing from DVD to BD (even then it wasn't set in stone, with a lot of early HDTVs being 720p). You needed all that when changing from BD to 3D BD (which itself was a similar balls up of competing display standards, if not mastering ones). You needed all that when changing from BD to UHD.

Now I ain't saying it's a tactic to be condoned, but it is what it is. People are more than welcome to rail against it, but please don't pretend it's some sort of exclusive thing to UHD. It's not. New digital video format comes along, you need to change your gear. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[Nowhere]

At this point I have no interest in 4K, I just finally got a decent size TV 2 years ago (40") and I'm about 240 or so movies invested into Bluray. I also still have a ton of DVD most of which I don't even watch since going bluray.

I also see a lot of talk about physical media being dead, I'm not sure if these people have enterprise broadband with a no outage guarantee or if they just never experienced an internet outage.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yup, I've been saying that for a while. While I fully understand where people are coming from re: the cluster**** that is HDR, treating UHD's overall need for a new TV, player, AVR etc as some sort of major black mark against it is remarkably myopic because we've been there several times already. You needed all that when changing from DVD to BD (even then it wasn't set in stone, with a lot of early HDTVs being 720p). You needed all that when changing from BD to 3D BD (which itself was a similar balls up of competing display standards, if not mastering ones). You needed all that when changing from BD to UHD.

Now I ain't saying it's a tactic to be condoned, but it is what it is. People are more than welcome to rail against it, but please don't pretend it's some sort of exclusive thing to UHD. It's not. New digital video format comes along, you need to change your gear. Lather, rinse, repeat.

HDR is annoying, I've no idea if my TV is compatible or not, I suspect not, but then I'm still waiting for a decently priced projector and fear I'll be waiting at least another 12-18 months before we see a sniff of one. As you say, it's the same as it ever was.

I'll never forget a bloke losing his rag with me in my old video shop when I told him the DVD he'd just rented, Tomorrow Never Dies, had a 5.1 soundtrack that was probably (my word, to try to soften the blow) not compatible with the fancy new pro-logic system he'd spent a fortune on 12 months previous. And that was before we got onto the subject of 'anamorphic DVD' which was the next big thing to arrive.

I was sorted though, I'd just spent a months wages on a 36" CRT widescreen TV which I probably would never have to replace.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Wiidesire

I don't know anything about HDMI 2.2 either. Please enlighten me

Other threads for that, but long story short, make sure everything has it before going 4k/uhd.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Oh noes, teh sky is falling! A new format is here!

Get the players for a reasonable price, the movies below $25, and actually get the movies out for sale (I'm looking at you, Star Wars), and the sky will float right back to where it belongs.


Keep charging $400 for a Samsung player, stop blockbuster studio releases, and charge $30-$40 for a movie, and only flatheads will thrive in this market.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Learn whereof you speak before castigating anyone.

Do you know about HDMI 2.2?

No love for .1? (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post12123577)

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Now I ain't saying it's a tactic to be condoned, but it is what it is. People are more than welcome to rail against it, but please don't pretend it's some sort of exclusive thing to UHD. It's not. New digital video format comes along, you need to change your gear. Lather, rinse, repeat.

The problem with any new format is mass acceptance, not dilettante acceptance. The media must be shared by the public. It's not like you can go somewhere and just get your movie burned to some media, and handed to you.


Everybody has to make the same change, at the same time, at higher than steady-state cost. Not everyone will do it at the same time, such as manufacturers and studios. Quality errors stunt the market, changes orphan formats, etc. And not everyone sees the value in it, or has the money to swap hats, often multiple times in the course of a single year.


Think about it. It's not as simple as a "too bad, you have to do it" consumer-as-slave situation.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Oh noes, teh sky is falling! A new format is here!

Now that HDR has established a beachhead , flash forward several years when HFR content comes out not only for professional displays, but for consumer TVs, I imagine that particular new next gen video parameter, HFR, will also serve as a catalyst for new *the sky is falling* threads.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

No love for .1? (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...#post12123577)

It's like kissing a beauty queen - might look good, but can you trust her next week?

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Now that HDR has established a beachhead , flash forward several years when HFR content comes out not only for professional displays, but for consumer TVs, I imagine that particular new next gen video parameter, HFR, will also serve as a catalyst for new *the sky is falling* threads.

I guess I better stock up on Depends before the rush.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by KRW1

HDR is annoying, I've no idea if my TV is compatible or not, I suspect not, but then I'm still waiting for a decently priced projector and fear I'll be waiting at least another 12-18 months before we see a sniff of one. As you say, it's the same as it ever was.

I'll never forget a bloke losing his rag with me in my old video shop when I told him the DVD he'd just rented, Tomorrow Never Dies, had a 5.1 soundtrack that was probably (my word, to try to soften the blow) not compatible with the fancy new pro-logic system he'd spent a fortune on 12 months previous. And that was before we got onto the subject of 'anamorphic DVD' which was the next big thing to arrive.

I was sorted though, I'd just spent a months wages on a 36" CRT widescreen TV which I probably would never have to replace.

"...losing his rag.."


I'm OK. I had to get up from the floor, and it took a minute. Really, I'm fine, it's just that my ribs still hurt a little bit.


It really wasn't that funny. I have no idea why I laughed so hard, must have been something I ate.