4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

But personally if waking up the kids is a legit concern (and it might be) I feel there are better workarounds then DRC or anything else that ruins the audio and the film

The DRC (metadata in a Dolby Digital or TrueHD stream) is *optional*. Nobody's screwing with the audio. But the option is there. DTS doesn't have that option.

Plus some of us live in apartments. We have no choice. To deal with DTS' lack of options my receiver has both Dolby Volume and Audyssey Dynamic Volume (something a lot of devices do not have). Now I can play movies at a decent level and not worry about annoying the neighbors, and sensitive guests. When I have the opportunity to crank it up the option is there.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

It has nothing to do with being a consumer or an HT nut. It has to do with caring about artistic integrity or not and having at least two cents of common sense.

Bah, DRC is a non-issue. People who watch movies on television sets in the first place obviously don't care about artistic integrity or have at least two cents of common sense.

If they did, they'd be watching movies in theaters like they're supposed to.

Right?

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

The DRC (metadata in a Dolby Digital or TrueHD stream) is *optional*. Nobody's screwing with the audio. But the option is there. DTS doesn't have that option.

Plus some of us live in apartments. We have no choice. To deal with DTS' lack of options my receiver has both Dolby Volume and Audyssey Dynamic Volume (something a lot of devices do not have). Now I can play movies at a decent level and not worry about annoying the neighbors, and sensitive guests. When I have the opportunity to crank it up the option is there.

but you don't need anything to lower the volume when needed (that is what volume control on your receiver is for.And I know you are a dolby superfan boy but it does screw up stuff. I know enough to turn all this crap off (be DRC or anything else that screws up the audio or picture) but I can't do that at everyone's home I visit and just happen to watch a movie. So yeah when the receiver comes with it on auto (or even worst on) and some dimwit at a studio clicked the on switch by mistake, that can mess with the audio I end up hearing in the film.

Also I find it funny that you are portraying clicking the volume down a bit because "it is not an opportunity to crank it up" and then up again when it is as a big deal but not going through a bunch of complicated menu options on the receiver to turn DRC on or off as needed.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by octagon

Bah, DRC is a non-issue. People who watch movies on television sets in the first place obviously don't care about artistic integrity or have at least two cents of common sense.

If they did, they'd be watching movies in theaters like they're supposed to.

Right?

why?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Also I find it funny that you are portraying clicking the volume down a bit because "it is not an opportunity to crank it up" and then up again when it is as a big deal but not going through a bunch of complicated menu options on the receiver to turn DRC on or off as needed.

Audio menus aren't particularly complicated. They're certainly no more complicated than any other menus.

And clicking through a few menus is infinitely more convenient than watching an entire film with ones thumb hovering over the volume button. It's also far more effective. One need look no further than your hypothetical example to see that wide volume swings don't always announce themselves.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

why?

Why what? Why do I think watching a film on a television screen and watching a film with 'late night' mode enabled are both compromises that are far more similar than different?

Cause they are.

Watching films at home involves all manner of compromises and I'm always bemused when people endorse the compromises they like (listening to a film at anything other than reference volume, for instance) but declare compromises they don't like (limiting dynamic range) as violations of artistic integrity.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

but you don't need anything to lower the volume when needed (that is what volume control on your receiver is for.And I know you are a dolby superfan boy but it does screw up stuff. I know enough to turn all this crap off (be DRC or anything else that screws up the audio or picture) but I can't do that at everyone's home I visit and just happen to watch a movie. So yeah when the receiver comes with it on auto (or even worst on) and some dimwit at a studio clicked the on switch by mistake, that can mess with the audio I end up hearing in the film.

Why are you messing with other people's equipment?


In any case, it is almost NEVER enabled by default, and when it was accidentally with Iron Man, Paramount had an exchange program!


Are you volunteering to purchase batteries for the people constantly riding the volume control? Are you going to calibrate their systems to compensate for the lowered dialogue level?


And if you're watching a movie for the first time, how exactly are you going to know when to turn it down? A lot of movies have "jump" moments where a sudden loud sound happens.

Also I find it funny that you are portraying clicking the volume down a bit because "it is not an opportunity to crank it up" and then up again when it is as a big deal but not going through a bunch of complicated menu options on the receiver to turn DRC on or off as needed.

My remote has a night mode button. Easy peasy.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

The DRC (metadata in a Dolby Digital or TrueHD stream) is *optional*. Nobody's screwing with the audio. But the option is there. DTS doesn't have that option.

Worked out well for Iron Man 1 Blu-ray

Plus some of us live in apartments. We have no choice. To deal with DTS' lack of options my receiver has both Dolby Volume and Audyssey Dynamic Volume (something a lot of devices do not have). Now I can play movies at a decent level and not worry about annoying the neighbors, and sensitive guests. When I have the opportunity to crank it up the option is there.

Maybe you are right, with Dolby more aiming for the demographic with suboptimal theater configurations and low end receivers without audyssey, while DTS is aiming for demographic with high end home theater configuration and hardware.

[harpolini]

I see no reason to not throw in a DRC option. John Wick for example has an Atmos 7.1 track and also DD 2.0 "Optimized for late-night listening."

It's cool, just also long as there is that option and the DRC is not the only option. Is it bastardization of the audio, of course, but sometimes I'm trying to get down on John Wick and it's 2 a.m.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Worked out well for Iron Man 1 Blu-ray

As I said, there was an exchange program. Even though the disc wasn't really "broken", only if you couldn't figure out how to turn off Night Mode.

Maybe you are right, with Dolby more aiming for the demographic with suboptimal theater configurations and low end receivers without audyssey, while DTS is aiming for demographic with high end home theater configuration and hardware.

Dolby aims for everyone. DTS cuts out most of the market.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by harpolini

I see no reason to not throw in a DRC option. John Wick for example has an Atmos 7.1 track and also DD 2.0 "Optimized for late-night listening."

It's cool, just also long as there is that option and the DRC is not the only option. Is it bastardization of the audio, of course, but sometimes I'm trying to get down on John Wick and it's 2 a.m.

I always appreciate having a 'late night' mix on the disc.

I think that kinda sums up Lionsgate's thing in general: it's always been about the sound for them rather than the picture. They were crazy about EX/ES remixes on DVD, then 7.1 for Blu-ray (did Van Wilder really need 7.1?), then there was that Neo:X mix for Expendables 2, then true object-based audio with Atmos, and they've had those 'late night' 2.0 mixes and clips to check speaker layouts for years as well. Trouble is, I don't much care if I'm hearing a bajillion things flying overhead if I'm seeing lots of nasty ****ing banding on-screen.

[dvdboy]

One thing that hasn't been made clear to me, despite seeing the demos at IBC is how this 'multi-transfer rate' thing is going to work:

http://blu-raydisc.com/Assets/Downlo...0817_clean.pdf

Page 32 talks about there being different 'zones' on the disc with different transfer rates, but how do you make the most of the rates during the encoding time given that it is dependant on the layout of the disc at authoring time?

I do wonder who came up with the spec, given that the only 'tools' on the market are Indigo Blue and Scenarist BD. How does this now work? The BDA come up with a spec which these companies have to then work out how to make 'author-able'. It's not like they make 'reference software' is it?

[PRO-630HD]

Correct me if I am wrong, but all of the forthcoming UHD Fox titles have 2k masters or DI except The Maze Runner. The were shot with cameras with a max resolution of 2.8K. So unless they were remastered with a 4K DI we have 1080p bluray titles with HDR! Color me confused?

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

Correct me if I am wrong, but all of the forthcoming UHD Fox titles have 2k masters or DI except The Maze Runner. The were shot with cameras with a max resolution of 2.8K. So unless they were remastered with a 4K DI we have 1080p bluray titles with HDR! Color me confused?

I never really saw the point of 1080p with HDR. You still need a new player and a new TV. It's highly unlikely any 1080p TVs will support HDR soon and by the time they do they'll barely be cheaper than the 4K TVs with HDR.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dvdboy

I do wonder who came up with the spec, given that the only 'tools' on the market are Indigo Blue and Scenarist BD. How does this now work? The BDA come up with a spec which these companies have to then work out how to make 'author-able'. It's not like they make 'reference software' is it?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...p#post11283278

[PRO-630HD]

Also I posted some years ago the minimum disc size needed was 75gb's with 150gb being a good maximum or at least 128gb at a bare minimum. The technology had already been developed with BDXL and that is exactly where the stole the 100gb triple layer disc from. The quadruple layer 128gb disc should have been included in the format!

[PRO-630HD]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I never really saw the point of 1080p with HDR. You still need a new player and a new TV. It's highly unlikely any 1080p TVs will support HDR soon and by the time they do they'll barely be cheaper than the 4K TVs with HDR.

Point being they are not UHD titles if the 2K DI is the source. They are 1080p upconverts with HDR with the sole exception of The Maze Runner!

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

Also I posted some years ago the minimum disc size needed was 75gb's with 150gb being a good maximum or at least 128gb at a bare minimum. The technology had already been developed with BDXL and that is exactly where the stole the 100gb triple layer disc from. The quadruple layer 128gb disc should have been included in the format!

That 128Gb disc confuses me no end

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

Point being they are not UHD titles if the 2K DI is the source. They are 1080p upconverts with HDR with the sole exception of The Maze Runner!

A professionally upconverted 1080p source to 4K with HDR would still be better than a disc that is just 1080p with HDR. Both require the same hardware to play so the studios might as well just release everything as 4K with HDR instead of 1080p with HDR regardless of the resolution of the source.

While the launch titles should've included more native 4K titles, there would be no advantage in releasing the 2K titles as 1080p with HDR instead. Personally I'm very pleased that Kingsman is coming out as I'm a big fan of the movie. It probably won't be as visually impressive as native 4K titles but it will still be an improvement over regular Blu-ray and will be the best the movie could possibly look.

[PRO-630HD]

An upconvert is an upconvert! You can't get UHD from an HD source! You can't get HD from a SD source. Upconversion is a fallacy in every sense of the word. It is like putting a 2.3L ecoboost engine in a 5.0 mustang body. At the end of the day you are still driving a 4 cylinder! Putting a .38 special cartridge into a .357 magnum revolver doesn't magically give you magnum power. The 158gr. bullet is still going to be going no faster than 850fps or about 400fps slower than a .357 magnum loaded with the same bullet. I don't like 480i sources on bluray or 576i pal.

If the master is 2k it needs to be advertised as such. If it was remastered in 4K that is a different story.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

An upconvert is an upconvert! You can't get UHD from an HD source! You can't get HD from a SD source. Upconversion is a fallacy in every sense of the word. It is like putting a 2.3L ecoboost engine in a 5.0 mustang body. At the end of the day you are still driving a 4 cylinder! Putting a .38 special cartridge into a .357 magnum revolver doesn't magically give you magnum power. The 158gr. bullet is still going to be going no faster than 850fps or about 400fps slower than a .357 magnum loaded with the same bullet. I don't like 480i sources on bluray or 576i pal.

If the master is 2k it needs to be advertised as such. If it was remastered in 4K that is a different story.

Are Blu-ray discs with 480i sources worse than DVDs with 480i sources? Just like with Blu-ray compared to DVD, 4K discs will be higher bitrate than 1080p discs and that makes a difference. I don't expect Kingsman & X-Men to look like they're 4K but I expect them to look better than their 1080p versions and I'm happy to get everything in the best quality the source can look whether or not it's the best quality the format can provide.

Nobody's forcing you to buy the 4K versions of movies with 2K sources. You are free to do your own research and only buy native 4K titles. But movies that don't have 4K sources shouldn't be ignored... they can still look better than their Blu-ray versions.