4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by hajiketobu

I think your comment to call 60Hz a global standard is just as ignorant and you are not to decide. You could say that 60Hz is an industry standard, yes, but it is not a global standard. There will never be a global standard, there will always be 50Hz and 60Hz, like you said yourself because of the electric frequency.

that makes no sense global means used around the globe even if you want to call it an industry standard it is none the less a global standard since in every and any AV equipment used around the world can handle it

ps: isn't it lame that 60hz avrs can't handle 50hz content, but the opposite can?

no, why? it is made by the personal de4cison in each market. Wouldn't forcing something people don't want even lamer?

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Esox50

For some of the bigger movies though, why wouldn't they go back and do it in 4K? Let's take the Avengers for example. Couldn't they theoretically go back to the original film elements, re-transfer, and use some upscaled effects?

should not even need to upscale the effects since the elements in CGI are usually created with higher detail and can easily be re rendered at higher resolution.

Obviously this assumes the live stuff was on film or filmed in 4K or higher (if it was filmed on an HD or 2k camera then that would be the issue) and that the computer programming is still available.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

should not even need to upscale the effects since the elements in CGI are usually created with higher detail and can easily be re rendered at higher resolution.

Obviously this assumes the live stuff was on film or filmed in 4K or higher (if it was filmed on an HD or 2k camera then that would be the issue) and that the computer programming is still available.

Marvel's most recent films were shot on the Arri Alexa 2.8k cameras, not their newest models that can capture more than 4k.

They're forever stuck at a lower resolution and would have to be upscaled.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Marvel's most recent films were shot on the Arri Alexa 2.8k cameras, not their newest models that can capture more than 4k.

They're forever stuck at a lower resolution and would have to be upscaled.

2.8k is still a lot higher than 1080p (just under 2k)

but that was exactly why I said

Obviously this assumes the live stuff was on film or filmed in 4K or higher (if it was filmed on an HD or 2k camera then that would be the issue) and that the computer programming is still available.

his example did not work too well since the limiting factor would be the live stuff and probably not the CGI

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Marvel's most recent films were shot on the Arri Alexa 2.8k cameras, not their newest models that can capture more than 4k.

They're forever stuck at a lower resolution and would have to be upscaled.

And even with the nasty dmr they look good projected in real imax cinemas.
And even not fully 4k they would look better on a 4k disc than on bd, depending on the di.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

And even with the nasty dmr they look good projected in real imax cinemas.
And even not fully 4k they would look better on a 4k disc than on bd, depending on the di.

If Disney follows the Sony model, they will use an upconverted to 4k master and call it a 4k (lite) title, rather than keep it at 1080p (2k lite) with the added benefits of the upgraded Ultra HD Blu-ray spec.

It sounds better from a marketing perspective rather than having the consumer look at the back of an Ultra HD disc and still see 1080p at a higher price. They won't look past that to the added 10 bit color, cinema color space, HDR, etc. (which probably won't be listed on the packaging).

[dvdmike]

n

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

If Disney follows the Sony model, they will use an upconverted to 4k master and call it a 4k (lite) title, rather than keep it at 1080p (2k lite) with the added benefits of the upgraded Ultra HD Blu-ray spec.

It sounds better from a marketing perspective rather than having the consumer look at the back of an Ultra HD disc and still see 1080p at a higher price. They won't look past that to the added 10 bit color, cinema color space, HDR, etc. (which probably won't be listed on the packaging).

When have Sony done that?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

n

When have Sony done that?

On some of their UHD demo clips... they've used movies shot and DI'd at 2k that were then upconverted to 4k. The Amazing Spider-Man movies and Skyfall to name just a few.

Sony (and others) are not above calling something 4k even when it's not because it sounds better.

[Geoff D]

I think you've got a few wires crossed, O Freaky one. While it's true that VFX is usually done at 2K and then upscaled to 4K - that's not just Sony but the industry in general - the two Amazing Spider-Man movies were shot on 5K RED and 35mm anamorphic respectively and were definitely finished at 4K. Skyfall was indeed lensed on the Alexa, but 2.8K upscaled to 4K is better than nothing and, as mentioned, it held up brilliantly on giant IMAX screens thanks to the Alexa's excellent dynamic range. Resolution ain't everything...

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think you've got a few wires crossed, O Freaky one. While it's true that VFX is usually done at 2K and then upscaled to 4K - that's not just Sony but the industry in general - the two Amazing Spider-Man movies were shot on 5K RED and 35mm anamorphic respectively and were definitely finished at 4K. Skyfall was indeed lensed on the Alexa, but 2.8K upscaled to 4K is better than nothing and, as mentioned, it held up brilliantly on giant IMAX screens thanks to the Alexa's excellent dynamic range. Resolution ain't everything...

I am going to make T-shirts

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think you've got a few wires crossed, O Freaky one. While it's true that VFX is usually done at 2K and then upscaled to 4K - that's not just Sony but the industry in general - the two Amazing Spider-Man movies were shot on 5K RED and 35mm anamorphic respectively and were definitely finished at 4K. Skyfall was indeed lensed on the Alexa, but 2.8K upscaled to 4K is better than nothing and, as mentioned, it held up brilliantly on giant IMAX screens thanks to the Alexa's excellent dynamic range. Resolution ain't everything...

Depends on the workflow. Not all productions use the 5k-6k files for anything other than reframing or other tweaks and then dump to 2 - 2.8k files for the rest of post. That's why David Fincher's true-4k workflow is deemed unique in the industry.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Depends on the workflow. Not all productions use the 5k-6k files for anything other than reframing or other tweaks and then dump to 2 - 2.8k files for the rest of post. That's why David Fincher's true-4k workflow is deemed unique in the industry.

Not true 4k as the raw files were downsampled

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think that's how it's gonna go, Kris. With the inclusion of a 1080p mode there's no need to upscale stuff to 4K to take advantage of all the other benefits of UHD BD, although they'd be better off putting out pure 4K content initially.

Edit: You say you're hoping to see 1080p specs for UHD BD, you've seen the slides on this site, right?

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/img/av.../dg11.jpg.html

Specifically this one?

sorry for the late reply on this one. I knew that UHD was going to support 1080p, I'm mainly wondering if we'll actually see that support if studios would rather upscale existing 2K transfers to 4K and call them 4K. I hope that doesn't happen. I also was hoping that the specs for 1080p in the UHD spec would be even higher than 4K given the less stringent requirements on bandwidth. I would love to see the 1080p specs maxed out more since they have the ability to do it even with the existing HDMI protocols.

[Geoff D]

That was never gonna happen re: souped up 1080p, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they offered 1080p at, say, 12-bit 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 but 2160p at 10-bit 4:2:0 on the same format.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That was never gonna happen re: souped up 1080p, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they offered 1080p at, say, 12-bit 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 but 2160p at 10-bit 4:2:0 on the same format.

The specs clearly show that 1080p material will get the same 10 bit, 4:2:0, Rec. 2020 (or at least re-mapped DCI-P3), and HDR treatment as 2160p. 1080p can have 3D support, but 4k will not.

The question is whether or not the studios will just upscale and call 2k files, "4K."

[RedIsNotBlue]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The question is whether or not the studios will just upscale and call 2k files, "4K."

Well there are examples of studios releasing upscaled standard definition content on Blu-ray while promoting it to be 1080p resolution on the case. 28 Days Later and The Blair Witch Project being examples off the top of my head. Yes yes I know that is how they were shot and supposed to look but still they promote it as being 1080p high definition.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The specs clearly show that 1080p material will get the same 10 bit, 4:2:0, Rec. 2020 (or at least re-mapped DCI-P3), and HDR treatment as 2160p. 1080p can have 3D support, but 4k will not.

The question is whether or not the studios will just upscale and call 2k files, "4K."

Why are you telling me? I know what the specs are, I was just replying to Kris' comment about wanting 1080p enhanced further than the 2160p spec.

[Richard Paul]

Considering how much the CE companies have promoted 4K resolution my guess is that most 2K movie titles will be upscaled to 4K resolution. It may just be wasting bits but upscaling video is easy to do and the studios will feel compelled to have "higher resolution" listed on the back of the box in order to maximize sales.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

Considering how much the CE companies have promoted 4K resolution my guess is that most 2K movie titles will be upscaled to 4K resolution. It may just be wasting bits but upscaling video is easy to do and the studios will feel compelled to have "higher resolution" listed on the back of the box in order to maximize sales.

That's what I'm thinking too. They're unscrupulous.

[reanimator]

I don't doubt that will happen eventually. Even with regular BD we've seen that many titles were simply repurposed HD masters created for DVD.

But in the early-going of UHD-BD I think we'll see a lot of true 4K/UHD content in an effort to sell the format. Which is why I think you'll see many of these 'mastered in 4K' titles released first.