4K Movies Releases

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...as was declared (with remorse) to my buddy Saprano - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...no#post7907163
P.S. Thinking back on it, unequivocally declared over a month ^ before even the general specs were announced…. http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/h...channel-audio/

Of course, we here in our little piece of heaven (future tie-in) really be cutting edge, e.g. from last year - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...00#post8536132

Which I notice still hasn’t made its way onto sites like Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._2020

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

So they'll definitely be upscales then? I honestly didn't think that Samsung had so much clout that they could get these movies finished at 4K, so upscales they shall be.

Given the source master and the fact that they are now marketing them as ‘4K movies’, that is exceedingly probable.

Just hope that the content providers upconverted the digital master (e.g. uncompressed DPX files) rather than a downstream compressed iteration such as some mezzanine file. Point being, upresing compressed content is never going to appear as good as upresing uncompressed content because with the former, one has less data to work with.

[Penton-Man]

Today on Blu-ray….https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-W...Blu-ray/75821/

From last Dec., zee Wolf’s (mostly shot on film, which saprano and singhcr should appreciate ) detailed DCP specs – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...lf#post8558447

Which originated from a 4K digital source master (DSM) - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993846/...ef_=tt_dt_spec

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Yes, in retrospect, I should have typed HDMI 2.x
I see us achieving YDzDx before 8K movie releases.

I think that the XYZ color space for consumer video will happen when it can provide a noticeable benefit for consumer displays. Recently Apple released a list of questions about HDR and WCG with some questions related to XYZ and YDzDx. They also suggested that HEVC should support the DCI P3 color space with the D65 white point and the XYZ color space with the D65 white point. It is strange that a computer company is pointing out the obvious fact that it would be easier for professional equipment to change the white point than requiring consumer displays to do it.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Today on Blu-ray….https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-W...Blu-ray/75821/

From last Dec., zee Wolf’s (mostly shot on film, which saprano and singhcr should appreciate ) detailed DCP specs – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...lf#post8558447

Which originated from a 4K digital source master (DSM) - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993846/...ef_=tt_dt_spec

I do appreciate it!

[Penton-Man]

Pentatonic,
Wow. I missed this news. Remember ‘Ted from Red’, nice chap actually - http://www.mefeedia.com/video/64311489

Flash forward - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...working-689355

I guess that means for all practical purposes his departure from RED signals the Red 4K laser projector project is either in a state of prolonged dormancy or else completely kaput like Sony Pictures Interactive - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...ts-down-689125

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I think that the XYZ color space for consumer video will happen when it can provide a noticeable benefit for consumer displays. Recently Apple released a list of questions about HDR and WCG with some questions related to XYZ and YDzDx. They also suggested that HEVC should support the DCI P3 color space with the D65 white point and the XYZ color space with the D65 white point. It is strange that a computer company is pointing out the obvious fact that it would be easier for professional equipment to change the white point than requiring consumer displays to do it.

Long read.

I think a few of those listed questions have already been addressed, at least indirectly, in piece meal fashion in past meetings, proposals. The adhoc group on support of HDR XYZ color space and HDR is tasked with gathering test material and evidence on the coding performance of HEVC. That’s when/where the rubber will meet the road, so to speak and theory is hopefully transformed into reality for all eyes to see. I suspect, in due course, such material will eventually be forthcoming from XYZ advocates as long as Hollywood studios remain motivated towards cutting down on the number of different mastering versions for deliverables.

Anyway, as to adding P3, I thought you were anti-P3, no matter what the white point. Not to mention, if I’m not leaving out any colorful characters, HDMI 2.0 officially supports the following colorspaces: B.T. 601, B.T. 709-5, xvYCC, sYCC601, AdobeYCC601, AdobeRGB and B.T. 2020, so you’d need a new version (HDMI 2.x) to add P3.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I think that the XYZ color space for consumer video will happen when it can provide a noticeable benefit for consumer displays.

Don't know if or when it will happen, but I disagree with you, every "generation, several things are added each with its own merit, that way you include more people that are interested. When DVD came out it was not just digital SD, it was also 5.1 audio..... when BD came out it was not just DVD and 1080p it was 7.1 lossless audio.....

The more improvements (even if little or that not everyone will be able to benefit from it) you add the faster and easier it is to get people to buy the newer format.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Anyway, as to adding P3, I thought you were anti-P3, no matter what the white point.

I think it would be a great idea to include the DCI P3 color space in HEVC. What I am against is using the XYZ color space as an expensive way to deliver DCI P3 video. That would be like shipping a microwave oven in a refrigerator box. And using a different white point would be like using sand to pad the inside of the box.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Not to mention, if I’m not leaving out any colorful characters, HDMI 2.0 officially supports the following colorspaces: B.T. 601, B.T. 709-5, xvYCC, sYCC601, AdobeYCC601, AdobeRGB and B.T. 2020, so you’d need a new version (HDMI 2.x) to add P3.

Adding the DCI P3 color space to HEVC would be useful for compressing DCI P3 video.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

The more improvements (even if little or that not everyone will be able to benefit from it) you add the faster and easier it is to get people to buy the newer format.

I wouldn't mind the additional cost of the XYZ color space if I thought it would provide a noticeable benefit for consumer displays within the next 10 years.

[img eL]

No Interlaced Scanning Allowed!!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

...That would be like shipping a microwave oven in a refrigerator box.

That analogy has personal significance. When I built my main home theater room, I had the contractor make me a cabinet in the bar to contain a small refrigerator in order to have refreshments on hand so there would be no need to walk all the way over to our kitchen (on another floor) to get a Brewski, glass of wine, etc.

Within a couple of years, due to a combination of inviting more guests over for viewings, as well as personally needing more (actually a variety of) food and drink than my little ole refrigerator had the capacity to hold, I discovered the small refrigerator was just too dang small and I should have had the contractor build in a space for a large refrigerator in order to be more future proof.

Retrospective analysis of the above include the following choices:
1. In order to meet immediate needs and keep building costs down , I skimped on my refrigeration amenity.
2. I developed too many friends who like watching movies and sports over at my house on a bigger screen than what they have at home.
3. Due to the act of putting any-sized frig in my home theater room, I turned into an alcoholic over the years and now should consider getting liver function tests on my next blood draw with my family doctor.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I think it would be a great idea to include the DCI P3 color space in HEVC...

At the risk of de-incentivizing the motion picture industry to make necessary changes in the production pipeline in order to provide B.T. 2020 masters to consumers?

Plus, the consumer electronics marketing machine can just as easily call P3 ‘wider color gamut’ as they could with B.T.2020 despite it being only about 30% larger than 709.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by singhcr

I do appreciate it!

At the upcoming NAB, Local 600 is sponsoring a ‘conversation’ with Wally Pfister (Director) and his D.P., which, given its now unique acquisition and post production workflow, https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ce#post8880524

hopefully an astute journalist from THR, the ICG Magazine staff or someone else will cover as Transcendence is hitting theaters next month….. http://nab14.mapyourshow.com/5_0/ses...B550EAC9CDFBDF

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

At the risk of de-incentivizing the motion picture industry to make necessary changes in the production pipeline in order to provide B.T. 2020 masters to consumers?

The XYZ color space allows for any color primaries to be used. Movie studios can put the DCI P3 color primaries in the XYZ color space, which would provide no benefit to the consumer, but would increase the cost and waste over 75% of the data on useless color combinations. The most efficient way to encode DCI P3 is to encode it as DCI P3.

Also if this was about video quality than the consumer XYZ color space would have used the D65 white point since that is used by every major consumer display standard (SDTV, HDTV, sRGB, UHDTV). A few hundred dollars for high quality white point rebalancing is no big deal for professional equipment but it would be a huge problem for future consumer displays. It is somewhat absurd for the major studios to expect white point rebalancing to be done on future consumer displays just so that they can save money on their professional equipment.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Plus, the consumer electronics marketing machine can just as easily call P3 ‘wider color gamut’ as they could with B.T.2020 despite it being only about 30% larger than 709.

I think there could be a marketing advantage in being able to say "More colors than UHDTV" and putting the disclaimer for what that means in fine print.

[Penton-Man]

Richard, I think you’re missing the point I was trying to make, i.e. I think studios would favor giving consumers P3 deliverables over B.T. 2020 deliverables. Colorists are already grading in P3 (then converting into XYZ in order to be shown correctly on a DCI compliant cinema projector), e.g. ~ 17 to 18 min. timestamp in this Ender’s Game workflow….

http://vimeo.com/78581143

In other words, dealing with something entirely new like B.T. 2020 would be (for studios) more of a PITA compared to P3 of which there are already industry-wide displays in place which can meet the spec of P3 correctly.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

At the upcoming NAB...

Whereas at their convention, Panasonic evokes the spirit of 4K in a colorful way...https://twitter.com/PanasonicUK/stat...504896/photo/1
77 days to go, from a guy I’ve heard of - http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/video/v...443/index.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

So they'll definitely be upscales then? I honestly didn't think that Samsung had so much clout that they could get these movies finished at 4K, so upscales they shall be.

Yes, along with the Life of Pi ‘4K’ offering….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...pi#post8724061

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

As to the VR stuff itself, I just don’t keep up. Too many toys…too little time.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

How about a bike riding sim that keeps you safe while recuperating from any injuries? Complete with rattlesnakes?

However I do follow the success stories of local southern Californians, whether it be on a grand financial scale, like for instance, teenage entrepreneurs who started out inventing while living in a trailer parked in his parents’ Long Beach driveway - http://www.ocregister.com/articles/o...k-virtual.html

Or, even more modestly successful hard working young entrepreneurs who started selling bike parts out of his parents’ garage as a young teenager and then went on to found one of the most successful bicycle retailers in the industry, like Mike - https://www.jensonusa.com/!q2FqT6O9M...ompany/aboutus

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I wouldn't mind the additional cost of the XYZ color space if I thought it would provide a noticeable benefit for consumer displays within the next 10 years.

what cost (as in how much do you think it will be and where will it show up)?

I am not questioning what you said, but I am curious.


and why does benefit within the next 10 years matter?

One can always make the argument that can be made that with todays tech (or yesterday's tech) we can't (could not) do something. But I think such "short sightedness" is one of the issues between consumers and the industry as a whole and why people feel they are getting ripped off. Why introduce 4k now and in a few years when it will benefit consumers ask people to re-purchase again for better colour (or what ever else you want to add) if it can be added now?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Whereas at their convention, Panasonic evokes the spirit of 4K in a colorful way...https://twitter.com/PanasonicUK/stat...504896/photo/1
77 days to go, from a guy I’ve heard of - http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/video/v...443/index.html

Some had never heard of him before this concert….

Santana - Soul Sacrifice 1969 "Woodstock" Live Video HQ - YouTube

Santana - Soul Sacrifice 1969 "Woodstock" Live Video HQ - YouTube

Now, years later, many are familiar with the name Santana – http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/ne...218/index.html
75 days to go.....