HDTVTEST (Vincent Teoh) Discussion Thread

[Geoff D]

Well, yeah. The people who'd usually have such paid licenses for video authoring/analysis software are the professionals who require them, not civilians. Even if I had a PC that wasn't hamster-driven I still wouldn't be paying thousands of dollarpounds for this kind of thing, though a version of Resolve is free (I think?) so I'd have a look at that.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by lgans316

If you look at the some of the folks at AVSForum they want the latest and greatest and will go above and beyond to defend their purchase.

It's their money which is fine but suddenly the TVs they owned in the past becomes junk. One guy claims he is a hardcore film fan and all he talks is just brightness, nothing else. One guy has a 3000 nit Z9J to watch SDR predominately and says the TV doesn't need much tonemapping (seriously?). Pity that many watch these tailor made HDR demos and come to a conclusion about the picture quality.

I too like some extra brightness but not at the expense of light uncontrollably leaking onto the adjacent areas causing a washed out hazy picture which I myself I have noticed even on the ZD9 on certain occasions. Yesterday I spent 30 mins comparing Doctor Strange 2 on D+ (77A80J / 65ZD9). Although the Z looked brighter during the HDR moments, I can't deny the fact that the OLED offered more contrast, colours and depth which made up for that lack of extra HDR oomph the Z offered.

Do we have any thread in our forum here which contains a list of movies that offers beyond DCI P3 colours?

I seem to recall that Pixar’s Inside Out was close to 100% P3 or into BT.2020.
Can’t find anything concrete to quote with my reply atm.

[unberechenbar]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Do we have any thread in our forum here which contains a list of movies that offers beyond DCI P3 colours?

This thread has some: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=305335

[Derb]

Finally Vincent acknowledges ASBL or TPC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5qXj-vpX5Q

As for the reasons, I disagree with his APL conclusion. Prolonged Dark content with static areas with minimal camera cuts triggers the TPC algorithm into thinking the content is “static” or “Paused”

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Derb

Finally Vincent acknowledges ASBL or TPC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5qXj-vpX5Q

As for the reasons, I disagree with his APL conclusion. Prolonged Dark content with static areas with minimal camera cuts triggers the TPC algorithm into thinking the content is “static” or “Paused”

Finally, after long last he finally made a video on an issue that so many people have been having! It amazes me that no one "mainstream" has spoke up about it till now. I just wonder if he has any way of contacting LG and other brands to somehow get the TPC or ASBL issues with dark scenes fixed. I don't know if LG or others could do it with a firmware update or not but I just hope there is a way of fixing the algorithm.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

Finally, after long last he finally made a video on an issue that so many people have been having! It amazes me that no one "mainstream" has spoke up about it till now. I just wonder if he has any way of contacting LG and other brands to somehow get the TPC or ASBL issues with dark scenes fixed. I don't know if LG or others could do it with a firmware update or not but I just hope there is a way of fixing the algorithm.

Because its nothing new. The issues described here (minus near black chrominance overshoot) is not a problem for most OLED owners as the scenarios where it occurs are quite extreme. It's like looping a blooming test for several minutes on a LCD TV and complaining it blooms.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Because its nothing new. The issues described here (minus near black chrominance overshoot) is not a problem for most OLED owners as the scenarios where it occurs are quite extreme. It's like looping a blooming test for several minutes on a LCD TV and complaining it blooms.

I disagree. I have had many instances where my LG C9 will start dimming while watching a movie or TV show with dark scenes in it. And from looking at the comments on this video, it looks like a lot of people have had this issue as well. Like I noticed it recently from watching the Obi-Wan Kenobi series on Disney +. Most of the time it's in Dolby Vision but I have heard this occurs in HDR as well. I get dimming the screen down when there is static logos or HUDs from gaming on the screen but when it's a movie, there should be no dimming as the picture isn't static but moving.

So even though it's not "new," it's something that needs to be fixed and I'm glad Vincent finally said something about it. Dimming shouldn't occur when watching movies or TV shows. It makes no sense.

As to LG's Pixel Shift, I wish it would be an input basis setting. That way when watching movies, you can leave it "off" so you see every part of the image. But you can leave it on when playing games or watching news/sports. I just feel like some of these screen protecting settings don't need to be "On" for everything you watch, especially when watching movies.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Because its nothing new. The issues described here (minus near black chrominance overshoot) is not a problem for most OLED owners as the scenarios where it occurs are quite extreme. It's like looping a blooming test for several minutes on a LCD TV and complaining it blooms.

It’s weird though how all it takes is for someone to mention it on x movie thread (like on the new Dune and Batman films) and then several other folks chime in saying they have the same problem, it’s like they’re afraid to speak up lest the OLED cognoscenti denounce them as heretics. Or they’re even unsure as to what it is, such is the lack of transparency from “respected voices” like YouTube types and pro calibrators and whatnot. (Though to Vincent’s credit he’s been pointing out chroma overshoot for years and years.)

I’ll bet that people see the dimming way more often than we think but they just reckon it’s the content - after all, if you keep seeing words like “perfect” thrown around regarding your choice of display you’re not going to realise that it’s actually got some flaws, right? I’m not ragging on you specifically though as you has a Sony OLED and they do things differently to the LGs.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It’s weird though how all it takes is for someone to mention it on x movie thread (like on the new Dune and Batman films) and then several other folks chime in saying they have the same problem, it’s like they’re afraid to speak up lest the OLED cognoscenti denounce them as heretics. Or they’re even unsure as to what it is, such is the lack of transparency from “respected voices” like YouTube types and pro calibrators and whatnot. (Though to Vincent’s credit he’s been pointing out chroma overshoot for years and years.)

I’ll bet that people see the dimming way more often than we think but they just reckon it’s the content - after all, if you keep seeing words like “perfect” thrown around regarding your choice of display you’re not going to realise that it’s actually got some flaws, right? I’m not ragging on you specifically though as you has a Sony OLED and they do things differently to the LGs.

Agreed! I started noticing this with Hawkeye on Disney + and then with other movies/ TV shows as well. I was 2nd guessing myself until another member here, Derb, had the same issues and then everybody in the LG OLED thread started chiming in.

I find it funny that Disney is a huge partner with LG and advertising that viewing Disney + content is best on an LG OLED. Yet, the LG OLEDs are ruining the Disney + content due to these ASBL or TPC issues.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It’s weird though how all it takes is for someone to mention it on x movie thread (like on the new Dune and Batman films) and then several other folks chime in saying they have the same problem, it’s like they’re afraid to speak up lest the OLED cognoscenti denounce them as heretics. Or they’re even unsure as to what it is, such is the lack of transparency from “respected voices” like YouTube types and pro calibrators and whatnot. (Though to Vincent’s credit he’s been pointing out chroma overshoot for years and years.)

I’ll bet that people see the dimming way more often than we think but they just reckon it’s the content - after all, if you keep seeing words like “perfect” thrown around regarding your choice of display you’re not going to realise that it’s actually got some flaws, right? I’m not ragging on you specifically though as you has a Sony OLED and they do things differently to the LGs.

Yeah I get you. My LG C8 had quite bad ASBL. Even dark scenes weren't spared and I had to get rid off it.

With the Panasonic GZ 1000 and Sony A80J OLEDs, I have not noticed a single instance of dimming whilst watching movies. If it happened, I would have gone ballistic lol and would have even sold them as I am very sensitive to it occurring when it comes to movies.

Now with YouTube containing bright white backgrounds, yes the screen dims gradually but again only when the APL is consistently higher.

Oh, near black chrominance overshoot, well it is something we have to suck up just like blooming on LCD TVs.

[mkozlows]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It’s weird though how all it takes is for someone to mention it on x movie thread (like on the new Dune and Batman films) and then several other folks chime in saying they have the same problem, it’s like they’re afraid to speak up lest the OLED cognoscenti denounce them as heretics.

I think this is actually discussed fairly often, and isn't controversial at all. Any of the LG owner threads on AVS will have it discussed several times as people keep popping in to be confused about it.

It's such a weird thing, though, because it's an obviously visible problem, it's not even remotely inherent to OLED tech, and the fix for the bad algorithm (just don't dim at all if average brightness is below a certain threshold) seems like it would be very easy to implement. And yet, for many years now, LG TVs all have this problem.

(I did the service menu fix myself, and then never thought about it again.)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mkozlows

I think this is actually discussed fairly often, and isn't controversial at all. Any of the LG owner threads on AVS will have it discussed several times as people keep popping in to be confused about it.

It's such a weird thing, though, because it's an obviously visible problem, it's not even remotely inherent to OLED tech, and the fix for the bad algorithm (just don't dim at all if average brightness is below a certain threshold) seems like it would be very easy to implement. And yet, for many years now, LG TVs all have this problem.

(I did the service menu fix myself, and then never thought about it again.)

On AVS threads, sure, but on here it hardly rates a mention and when it does people say it's not a thing, it doesn't exist etc. And yes, it's not inherent to the technology itself, it's just how LG roll.

[teddyballgame]

I noticed the dimming with the LG C9..never really thought about what was causing but it was a nuisance. I called a local calibrator to do his thing and remember telling him to please disable anything that would cause the picture to dim. I haven't noticed anything like that with Sony OLEDs unless there's a hud or static logo. My preference is for Sony now just wish they'd give us the full 22 point grayscale calibration (not just 20) so near black could be finessed a little more.

[DAT_JB]

LG's ABSL is really bad but at least you can turn it completely off with the help of a service remote for small money.

[LordoftheRings]

All LG OLED TV professional video reviewers mention it right?

[Derb]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

Agreed! I started noticing this with Hawkeye on Disney + and then with other movies/ TV shows as well. I was 2nd guessing myself until another member here, Derb, had the same issues and then everybody in the LG OLED thread started chiming in.

I find it funny that Disney is a huge partner with LG and advertising that viewing Disney + content is best on an LG OLED. Yet, the LG OLEDs are ruining the Disney + content due to these ASBL or TPC issues.

It is a bigger issue (TPC) than near black overshoot. I have yet to see that on my OLED after 2600 hours. Though most of what I watch is HDR + stream.

Maybe it’s more of an issue with disc?

As per Vincent, he only suggests an option to get rid of TPC. Which in fairness works but the way he described the method in his video is vague enough to have you concerned if you yourself should attempt to do such a thing.

InStart
Press Down arrow to OLED
Press right arrow 2 times
Press exit.

If that’s too complicated for folks, I’d shell out for the A95K as it seem it is the only TV OLED that isn’t dimming as often.

[Jay Mammoth]

Originally Posted by DAT_JB

LG's ABSL is really bad but at least you can turn it completely off with the help of a service remote for small money.

Can do it with a Harmony remote as well. Best TVs I’ve owned by far.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by Derb

It is a bigger issue (TPC) than near black overshoot. I have yet to see that on my OLED after 2600 hours. Though most of what I watch is HDR + stream.

Maybe it’s more of an issue with disc?

As per Vincent, he only suggests an option to get rid of TPC. Which in fairness works but the way he described the method in his video is vague enough to have you concerned if you yourself should attempt to do such a thing.

InStart
Press Down arrow to OLED
Press right arrow 2 times
Press exit.

If that’s too complicated for folks, I’d shell out for the A95K as it seem it is the only TV OLED that isn’t dimming as often.

and don't disregard the Panasonic if you are in the UK / Europe.

[MisterXDTV]

I got my first LG OLED two months ago (C2) but I have never noticed any dimming so far....

So should I risk going in the service menu if I can't see this issue? Seems pointless to me

[Derb]

Originally Posted by lgans316

and don't disregard the Panasonic if you are in the UK / Europe.

I’ll be straight up honest here. I would of never bought my LG C1 had I known about ASBL/TPC or any other OLED.

For films, I don’t see as many complaints from Sony or Panasonic users.

As per my LG C1, TPC On definitely dims down the content. I’ve done multiple tests to see what, where, why, & how ASBL is effecting the Panel while watching every single type of screen format.

The biggest offender is Dolby Vision. The only time Dolby Vision isn’t effected by TPC is when it is in “Game” mode.

HDR10 & SDR content never dims on my LG C1. Doesn’t matter what APL is displayed with “moving content”

GSR however does dim the screen when I play games. Has 0 effect on film. This is a must feature for OLED. So I wouldn’t turn that off ever or you definitely would risk IR or Fixed Pixels. LG has 3 user options. Off, Low & high or 0%, 15%, & 30% Auto-Dim.

Sony is actually more aggressive with their GSR implementation. They give users 0 options & when it is triggered, the screen will dim 50%. How this is handled on the A95K, no reviewer has chimed in yet. But the A90J, A80J will dim 50% while playing games with static HUDs.