HDR Discussion Thread - Page 399 - Blu-ray Forum

Penton-Man · 01-08-2019, 05:33 PM

people becoming hungrier now?, since first posed last September - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post15538730

puddy77 · 01-08-2019, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

people becoming hungrier now?, since first posed last September - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post15538730

Penton, was that confirming my question that they only need one encode on disc for both?

gkolb · 01-08-2019, 05:38 PM

Puddy77,
The HDR10 base layer on disc is still the main content holder.

10+ dynamic metadata is contained in this base layer as added instructions for the 10+ decoder (when present) to pass to the display with the main picture content.

The Dolby Vision dynamic metadata plus additional content to create a 12-bit output are in the second layer. If conformed output is DV to the display, then the HDR10 content is read, the 10+ dynamic metadata instructions would have to be IGNORED, and the secondary layer information is ‘merged’ with the base layer.

Simple, No?

nick4Knight · 01-08-2019, 05:40 PM

So yeah with the GZ2000 Panasonic OLED coming this is the first universal TV, right? I mean it won't have Technicolor HDR, but, who cares?

DV
PQ
HLG
HDR10+; is plenty enough!

Grab a 2019 Panasonic OLED (or I guess maybe equipped LED), grab a UB820 and no matter what 4K discs come out you are secured on the HDR front and w/ dynamic metadata for the foreseeable future.

puddy77 · 01-08-2019, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkolb

Puddy77,
The HDR10 base layer on disc is still the main content holder.

10+ dynamic metadata is contained in this base layer as added instructions for the 10+ decoder (when present) to pass to the display with the main picture content.

The Dolby Vision dynamic metadata plus additional content to create a 12-bit output are in the second layer. If conformed output is DV to the display, then the HDR10 content is read, the 10+ dynamic metadata instructions would have to be IGNORED, and the secondary layer information is ‘merged’ with the base layer.

Simple, No?

I agree that it should be that simple. But 2themax wasn't so sure early last year. That's why I'm asking for clarification.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2themax

My current reading of the spec is yes but not within the same piece of video. So to do so, you'd have to double up on the encodes.

Geoff D · 01-08-2019, 11:05 PM

Highly doubt that there are two separate encodes on the disc, though if it's a 100GB and the movie is of average length (~ 2hrs) with minimal foreign language options then that might work. I reckon they've just found a way to integrate them all together though, as gkolb notes above. An HDR10 only device just sees the base layer, an HDR10+ device just sees the 10+ and a DV device just sees the DV. If a system chain can use both flavours of dynamic metadata in one piece of software then it will come down to whichever one it's been programmed to prioritise, e.g. for Panasonic's 10+/DV enabled UHD players then it says that if a piece of content has both and the entire chain supports both, it will default to the 10+ version. So if you wanted the DV you'd have to turn off the 10+ setting in the player's menu.

Penton-Man · 01-09-2019, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puddy77

Penton, was that confirming my question that they only need one encode on disc for both?

I don’t know what the content creators did or did not do with that particular UHD Blu-ray movie, but yes, it is possible to work basically one encode to that purpose, which is why I posed that question back in Sept. in the first place (it was a hint)…..BrownianMotion sort of picked up on that lead-in at the top of p.338

Penton-Man · 01-09-2019, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And I would assume by now ya’ll realize who the D.I. colorist of record is for Top Gun: Maverick

Penton-Man · 01-09-2019, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

(it was a hint)…..

And sometimes my hints are accompanied with visual illustrations, a tad more revealing than storyboard sketches, e.g. – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post15775092

Penton-Man · 01-09-2019, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Top Gun: Maverick

Perspective: Top Gun: Maverick has the potential to be more than just a fun, entertaining movie, but also could serve as a vehicle affecting many individuals’ career choices, similar to the way in which the original Top Gun did - https://thenewsrep.com/103976/can-to...ruitment-tool/

which is of significance, especially these days – https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...lets-is-empty/

Penton-Man · 01-09-2019, 04:46 PM

For UKers who might be taking advantage of the free-to-attend BVE - https://www.bvexpo.com/programme

Consider sitting in on the planned presentation in the Post Dome tract on 27 Feb. 2019 at 16:50 – 17:00 titled - “The Colour Science of HDR and The Artist's Intent” by Bill, who’ll also be speaking earlier in the month at the upcoming HPA Tech Retreat in SoCal on the topic of -

“Mastering for Multiple Display and Surround Brightness Levels Using the Human Perceptual Model to Insure the Original Creative Intent Is Maintained”

avs commenter · 01-09-2019, 04:58 PM

Imagine that volleyball scene in the original with dynamic metadata.....you will be able to see the individual hairs on Tom's nipples!

Penton-Man · 01-09-2019, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avs commenter

Imagine that volleyball scene in the original with dynamic metadata.....you will be able to see the individual hairs on Tom's nipples!

where you been?
despite advances with HDR, beauty grading plug-ins work around areolas too, if any actor would need such work

Penton-Man · 01-09-2019, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

....at the upcoming HPA Tech Retreat in SoCal on the topic of -
“Mastering for Multiple Display and Surround Brightness Levels Using the Human Perceptual Model to Insure the Original Creative Intent Is Maintained”

https://hpaonline.com/wp-content/upl...-of-Dec-26.pdf

mrtickleuk · 01-09-2019, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

If a system chain can use both flavours of dynamic metadata in one piece of software then it will come down to whichever one it's been programmed to prioritise, e.g. for Panasonic's 10+/DV enabled UHD players then it says that if a piece of content has both and the entire chain supports both, it will default to the 10+ version. So if you wanted the DV you'd have to turn off the 10+ setting in the player's menu.

That's a stupid default. Surely it should treat dolby vision as the higher priority by default without the user needing to turn off HDR10+ all the time and re-enable it for HDR10+ content. What a faff. Who came up with that big idea?

Geoff D · 01-09-2019, 10:14 PM

Oh, what a terrible problem to have

DisplayCalNoob · 01-10-2019, 02:36 AM

So Summit Entertainment has quietly supported both dynamic metadata formats without much press or did I just miss the press release?

Staying Salty · 01-10-2019, 05:13 AM

March release.

gkolb · 01-10-2019, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

So Summit Entertainment has quietly supported both dynamic metadata formats without much press or did I just miss the press release?

What are those titles?

DanBa · 01-10-2019, 07:50 AM

Latest Multi-HDR table:
https://twitter.com/DanielBa78/statu...83614060765185

. Dolby Vision supported by Panasonic TV

. HDR10+ compatible UHD Blu-ray discs released by Disney Japan
https://twitter.com/UltraHDBluray/st...60152504033280

. HDR10+ & Dolby Vision compatible UHD Blu-ray disc released by Lionsgate

01-10-2019, 07:50 AM	#7980
DanBa Senior Member Member since:Sep 2010	Multi-HDR Latest Multi-HDR table: https://twitter.com/DanielBa78/statu...83614060765185 . Dolby Vision supported by Panasonic TV . HDR10+ compatible UHD Blu-ray discs released by Disney Japan https://twitter.com/UltraHDBluray/st...60152504033280 . HDR10+ & Dolby Vision compatible UHD Blu-ray disc released by Lionsgate

01-08-2019, 05:33 PM	#7961
Penton-Man Retired Hollywood Insider Member since:Apr 2007	people becoming hungrier now?, since first posed last September - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post15538730

01-08-2019, 05:38 PM	#7963
gkolb Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Feb 2012 Location:Bakersfield, CA 4K collection:979 Blu-ray collection:2941 DVD collection:273	Puddy77, The HDR10 base layer on disc is still the main content holder. 10+ dynamic metadata is contained in this base layer as added instructions for the 10+ decoder (when present) to pass to the display with the main picture content. The Dolby Vision dynamic metadata plus additional content to create a 12-bit output are in the second layer. If conformed output is DV to the display, then the HDR10 content is read, the 10+ dynamic metadata instructions would have to be IGNORED, and the secondary layer information is ‘merged’ with the base layer. Simple, No?

01-08-2019, 05:40 PM	#7964
nick4Knight Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Dec 2013 Location:Perth, Australia Home Theater Gallery:6 4K collection:386 Blu-ray collection:716	So yeah with the GZ2000 Panasonic OLED coming this is the first universal TV, right? I mean it won't have Technicolor HDR, but, who cares? DV PQ HLG HDR10+; is plenty enough! Grab a 2019 Panasonic OLED (or I guess maybe equipped LED), grab a UB820 and no matter what 4K discs come out you are secured on the HDR front and w/ dynamic metadata for the foreseeable future.

01-08-2019, 11:05 PM	#7966
Geoff D Blu-ray Emperor Top contributor Member since:Feb 2009 Location:Swanage, Engerland 4K collection:1348 Blu-ray collection:2525 Blu-ray reviews: 6 Trading Score:33	Highly doubt that there are two separate encodes on the disc, though if it's a 100GB and the movie is of average length (~ 2hrs) with minimal foreign language options then that might work. I reckon they've just found a way to integrate them all together though, as gkolb notes above. An HDR10 only device just sees the base layer, an HDR10+ device just sees the 10+ and a DV device just sees the DV. If a system chain can use both flavours of dynamic metadata in one piece of software then it will come down to whichever one it's been programmed to prioritise, e.g. for Panasonic's 10+/DV enabled UHD players then it says that if a piece of content has both and the entire chain supports both, it will default to the 10+ version. So if you wanted the DV you'd have to turn off the 10+ setting in the player's menu.

01-09-2019, 04:46 PM	#7971
Penton-Man Retired Hollywood Insider Member since:Apr 2007	For UKers who might be taking advantage of the free-to-attend BVE - https://www.bvexpo.com/programme Consider sitting in on the planned presentation in the Post Dome tract on 27 Feb. 2019 at 16:50 – 17:00 titled - “The Colour Science of HDR and The Artist's Intent” by Bill, who’ll also be speaking earlier in the month at the upcoming HPA Tech Retreat in SoCal on the topic of - “Mastering for Multiple Display and Surround Brightness Levels Using the Human Perceptual Model to Insure the Original Creative Intent Is Maintained”

01-09-2019, 04:58 PM	#7972
avs commenter Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Apr 2018 Trading Score:8	Imagine that volleyball scene in the original with dynamic metadata.....you will be able to see the individual hairs on Tom's nipples!

01-09-2019, 10:14 PM	#7976
Geoff D Blu-ray Emperor Top contributor Member since:Feb 2009 Location:Swanage, Engerland 4K collection:1348 Blu-ray collection:2525 Blu-ray reviews: 6 Trading Score:33	Oh, what a terrible problem to have

01-10-2019, 02:36 AM	#7977
DisplayCalNoob Active Member Member since:Nov 2017	So Summit Entertainment has quietly supported both dynamic metadata formats without much press or did I just miss the press release?

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