HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

I did start off my career as a Broadcast Engineer

For a lunchtime funny , I was sent this in a PM just now - ’ Why you never wear green on TV’
Google it, should still be fresh.

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For a lunchtime funny , I was sent this in a PM just now - ’ Why you never wear green on TV’
Google it, should still be fresh.

Very funny! This did not happen on the air but it enabled people to have some fun on YouTube. I believe when I was a broadcast engineer the chroma key was a shade of blue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_key

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Complaints the black bars are discolored (grey) in DV UHD-BD titles like Power Rangers.


"Someone" else is claiming it also happens on pure DV streaming titles as well.

Thank you for the quick summary.

You are talking about the letterbox bars on the top and bottom?

I will look at the pixel values coming out of the OPPO tomorrow and see what they look like. Then I can reach out to OPPO, Dolby and Pixelogic to find out what is happening. I use the Accupel Analyzer to look at pixel values these days. I have a command line tool that works with my monotonicity pattern to read in all the values and dump the actual results vs. expected results. The analyzer also provides all InfoFrames in English and hex. It is a must have tool for those that evaluate HW with HDMI outputs.

To be honest, not sure what I will be allowed to share once I find out what is going on.

I am not over at AVS much, so I have not been following anything as of late. A link to the discussion would be nice, assuming you are allowed to post links to AVS from here.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Thank you for the quick summary.

You are talking about the letterbox bars on the top and bottom?

Yes.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-bl...l#post54003337

I am not over at AVS much, so I have not been following anything as of late. A link to the discussion would be nice, assuming you are allowed to post links to AVS from here.

There's been some discussion about it, hard to find other examples of it not being tied to LG sets.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post54579564

[Penton-Man]

^
Perspective – nothing is perfect, e.g. http://pomfort.com/article/productio...nce-livegrade/ . What’s most important is that developers recognize and solve any legitimate issues at least on an interim basis - http://acescentral.com/t/colour-arte...ing-aces/520/8 until there is a baked in process improvement.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

Very funny!

I thought you might like it.

Originally Posted by PaulGo

when I was a broadcast engineer

With regards to the future, I recommend to those attending IBC next month -

Paper presentation ‘ACTIVITIES OF ITU-R STUDY GROUP 6 FOR THE FUTURE OF BROADCASTING’

by
https://show.ibc.org/speakers/yukihi...743.1494877327

[HeatEquation]

Anyone else here use the Chromecast Ultra for HDR content? The colors seem a lot worse than they do when streaming through my TV's native apps. I don't have this issue with any other external devices. So I'm wondering if it's an issue with the Chromecast Ultra, or if there's a communication issue between the CC Ultra and my TV.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Anyone else here use the Chromecast Ultra for HDR content? The colors seem a lot worse than they do when streaming through my TV's native apps. I don't have this issue with any other external devices. So I'm wondering if it's an issue with the Chromecast Ultra, or if there's a communication issue between the CC Ultra and my TV.

Hey I just got my ultra last night actually. I also could not get hdr correctly. I bought an hdr movie on Google play and tried YouTube hdr. The colors are all messed up for sure. Way undersaturated and kinda washed out.


My main purpose for the ultra was for the newly released YouTube TV. I canceled my Comcast cable. Feeding my chromecast Ultra through my oppo 203 and playing with a few settings, my new cable TV is sharper and has better texture than my Comcast cable ever did. The baseball game last night looked almost like a Blu Ray slightly compressed (which is more than I could say about how comcast looked).

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Hey I just got my ultra last night actually. I also could not get hdr correctly. I bought an hdr movie on Google play and tried YouTube hdr. The colors are all messed up for sure. Way undersaturated and kinda washed out.


My main purpose for the ultra was for the newly released YouTube TV. I canceled my Comcast cable. Feeding my chromecast Ultra through my oppo 203 and playing with a few settings, my new cable TV is sharper and has better texture than my Comcast cable ever did. The baseball game last night looked almost like a Blu Ray slightly compressed (which is more than I could say about how comcast looked).

I've seen several people with the same issue. All had 2016 Samsung TVs. I've been in contact with Google and they've narrowed it down to two possible causes: a faulty CC Ultra, or a communication issue with the TV. They wanted to exchange my unit, but I feel like it's pointless, since other people with the same TV have had this issue as well.

If you want to report this, here's their email: chromecast-support@google.com

The more people report it, the better.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

I've seen several people with the same issue. All had 2016 Samsung TVs. I've been in contact with Google and they've narrowed it down to two possible causes: a faulty CC Ultra, or a communication issue with the TV. They wanted to exchange my unit, but I feel like it's pointless, since other people with the same TV have had this issue as well.

Obviously HDR10 is half-baked and should not be used until all the kinks have been worked out

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Obviously HDR10 is half-baked and should not be used until all the kinks have been worked out

I agree with you that Google should not support HDR10 on their Chromecast Ultra until all of the kinks have been worked out.

[Geoff D]

I don't have an ultra (only a normal Chromecast) but on my TV I can manually trigger HDR10 or HLG which may help in this case, it sounds like the thingy isn't triggering the HDR properly as it usually looks very washed out without the correct EOTF applied.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't have an ultra (only a normal Chromecast) but on my TV I can manually trigger HDR10 or HLG which may help in this case, it sounds like the thingy isn't triggering the HDR properly as it usually looks very washed out without the correct EOTF applied.

It seems to be triggering HDR10, as the TV's settings automatically adjust for HDR. The image looks very detailed, and there doesn't seem to be an issue with the dynamic range - it's only the colors that look off.

Maybe the Chromecast Ultra is just sending the wrong color space?

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

I've seen several people with the same issue. All had 2016 Samsung TVs. I've been in contact with Google and they've narrowed it down to two possible causes: a faulty CC Ultra, or a communication issue with the TV. They wanted to exchange my unit, but I feel like it's pointless, since other people with the same TV have had this issue as well.

If you want to report this, here's their email: chromecast-support@google.com

The more people report it, the better.

Thanks. I'll send a report later.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't have an ultra (only a normal Chromecast) but on my TV I can manually trigger HDR10 or HLG which may help in this case, it sounds like the thingy isn't triggering the HDR properly as it usually looks very washed out without the correct EOTF applied.

Nope it's definitely an encoding issue. I tried jacking up my settings and it still wasn't even close to how it looks through my TV apps. Even jacking up my settings I was still it at 50% of how it's actually supposed to look.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

I agree with you that Google should not support HDR10 on their Chromecast Ultra until all of the kinks have been worked out.

Which kinks? HDR10 is a subset of Dolby Vision. Only thing it is missing is a standardized way of tone / gamut mapping and per frame dynamic metadata. HDR10+ is not frame aligned.

I would also not blame Samsung issues on HDR10.

HDR10/DV is superior to HLG for HDR and existing SDR is superior to HLG for SDR. Basically HLG HDR is not as good as PQ based HDR and its SDR is not as good as regular SDR.

Since HLG is a relative system, it may work better in bright environments where an absolute system really requires a light controlled room to best results. This is just my opinion though.

I will actually watch the SDR version of a show if I am in a bright room. Some of my friends think I am crazy for this. They try and watch HDR10 in a bright room and then complain about it.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Which kinks? HDR10 is a subset of Dolby Vision. Only thing it is missing is a standardized way of tone / gamut mapping and per frame dynamic metadata. HDR10+ is not frame aligned.

I would also not blame Samsung issues on HDR10.

HDR10/DV is superior to HLG for HDR and existing SDR is superior to HLG for SDR. Basically HLG HDR is not as good as PQ based HDR and its SDR is not as good as regular SDR.

Since HLG is a relative system, it may work better in bright environments where an absolute system really requires a light controlled room to best results. This is just my opinion though.

I will actually watch the SDR version of a show if I am in a bright room. Some of my friends think I am crazy for this. They try and watch HDR10 in a bright room and then complain about it.

I know it's frowned upon by experts and pros, but alot of people use the dynamic contrast setting to boost full screen brightness for daytime viewing or even to give a little more pop.

LG has its new dynamic Metadata simulator which boosts the picture by injecting fake Metadata. To use this you turn dynamic contrast to low (but not medium or high). Thru call it "active hdr". I haven't had a chance to see it yet though.

[Adrian Wright]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

What is the actual issue? Too many posts to try and figure out what you are talking about? Can you summarize? I can speak to OPPO about it as well.

I can confirm that there are grey letterbox bars when watching Dolby Vision content from the UDP-203 through an LG 2016 OLED TV. I have now seen this on Power Rangers and The Fate of the Furious.

There is something funky happening with the Oppo screen saver as this is always inky black when it is activated when watching SDR and HDR10 Material. With DV, when this comes on the screen saver is grey.

Not sure myself if this is the content or the player, but it is definitely there only with the above mentioned DV Material.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Which kinks? HDR10 is a subset of Dolby Vision. Only thing it is missing is a standardized way of tone / gamut mapping and per frame dynamic metadata. HDR10+ is not frame aligned.

How a standardized Dolby Vision tone / gamut mapping can be specified?
Are there a Dolby Vision dynamic metadata specification and a Dolby Vision tone / gamut mapping specification (or a Dolby Vision (reference) source implementation)?

In other words, the SMPTE ST 2094-10 Dynamic Metadata for Color Volume Transform specification can’t completely specify the tone / gamut mapping of the probable future ATSC 3.0 Dynamic HDR (?)(i.e. a ST 2094-10 based Dynamic HDR tone / gamut mapping specification is missing, or a ST 2094-10 based Dynamic HDR tone / gamut mapping reference source implementation is missing (?).)
https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uplo...nt-2094-10.pdf

Thanks.

[DanBa]

"This is what the HDR video standards field will look like once Apple officially announces support for HDR10, Dolby Vision and HLG."
https://twitter.com/DanielBa78/statu...99365475512320