HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Eh, them bigger houses need a lot more maintenance, and I'm still so pleased with what I am getting (wildly varying SDR conversions aside) because I never, ever expected to get anything like a 25% increase on a 2014 4K set.

lol, you do like your numbers Geoff. Being the avid Premier league watcher I know you are (football/soccer to those readers not following), if you’re on a typical 5-6 year TV replacement cycle, come 2019 or 2020 you’ll be ready for a good HFR tv as scientific testing by a professional consortium has shown about a 30% improvement in visual quality (esp. with footage involving camera pans which is common with football) with 100 fps capture, transmission and display as opposed to the typical 50 Hz transmission consumers are settling with now....

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Yes I meant OLED HDR.. If the theory is that HDR uses WCG why is HDR Standard mode set at colt gamut Normal?

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

ok if you keep this up soon it will be gone.

The HDR Standard mode is set to Normal the first time you turn on the TV. After you change it to Wide it stays Wide. Like frame interpolation was on. Like many defaults on a TV when you turn them on the first time. I don't know why you have to ask this question everywhere I go to 4k thread when all you have to do is set it to Wide, like turning frame interpolation off, edge enhancement off, sharpness to zero boost, gamma to what you want. etc etc.

I’m out of the forum loop here ^, so I guess I’ve got to get around more to other threads. Anyway Deci



now that you’re in attendance, latest thing is automation in a truck (damn robotics are stealing all the human jobs)….

ALPHA GRIP MOBILE LAB - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I have heard that there will be some big announcements about HLG sometime around IFA. I am hoping that one of the announcements will be HDMI 2.1.

It’s getting about time for another revision in CTA 861 for new HDMI signaling to officially facilitate HLG capability in consumer displays. After that, CTA developing a standard to support dynamic metadata (an eInfoFrame) in a revision.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

lol, you do like your numbers Geoff. Being the avid Premier league watcher I know you are (football/soccer to those readers not following), if you’re on a typical 5-6 year TV replacement cycle, come 2019 or 2020 you’ll be ready for a good HFR tv as scientific testing by a professional consortium has shown about a 30% improvement in visual quality (esp. with footage involving camera pans which is common with football) with 100 fps capture, transmission and display as opposed to the typical 50 Hz transmission consumers are settling with now....

You mentioned the 25%, not me

I'm getting a bit antsy when looking at the Sony ZD9, as even though I'm disgusted by the lack of dynamic scene-by-scene adjustment with HDR10 (and it's not like the TV will have Dolby Vision, pigs might fly) I'll be able to live with it as long as the TV's mapping is competent enough, as reports say that the current 75" isn't great for either mapping or peak brightness. If the ZD9 smashes it across the board then that 65" edition might have my name on it....

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

latest thing is automation in a truck (damn robotics are stealing all the human jobs)….

ALPHA GRIP MOBILE LAB - YouTube

The old Technicolor wagon train is slowly becoming a Transformer.

[Blu As Hell]

I may have overlooked this, but if anyone could help me with this question i would greatly appreciate it. If I got a television with HDR but doesn't have WCG, say a Vizio M Series, how does that affect HDR on that TV?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Blu As Hell

I may have overlooked this, but if anyone could help me with this question i would greatly appreciate it. If I got a television with HDR but doesn't have WCG, say a Vizio M Series, how does that affect HDR on that TV?

not familiar with that brand /model, so theoretically….better colors, but not enough to take full advantage of HDR, i.e. you added a second story on top of your rancher. Also, performance is dependent upon the construction quality of the stairway between to the two floors.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You mentioned the 25%, not me

Yes, you’re correct, also as to the % number(s), looking back at that post in retrospect, I guess I should clarify for the sake of those not totally understanding the graph of the HFR results , the % at the bottom of each graph represents the camera shutter, i.e. 50% = 180 degrees, 100% = 360 degrees.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm getting a bit antsy when looking at the Sony ZD9....If the ZD9 smashes it across the board then that 65" edition might have my name on it....

Just make sure to keep enough money in reserve to treat me to a good meal and alcoholic beverage if someday I ever get down to your neck of the woods. Steed has arleady promised to feed me for one night while I’m up north.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

It’s getting about time for another revision in CTA 861 for new HDMI signaling to officially facilitate HLG capability in consumer displays. After that, CTA developing a standard to support dynamic metadata (an eInfoFrame) in a revision.

I am a bit surprised to hear that they are different revisions since I thought that it was dynamic metadata that was delaying HDMI 2.1. It seems like they might be releasing HDMI 2.1 a bit late for products like AV receivers. I wonder if all AV receivers next year will support HLG or if it is going to be one of those situations were only the AV receivers released late in the year will support it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I am a bit surprised to hear that they are different revisions....

poor wording on my part due to multi-tasking…. i meant the project work by developers for incorporating HLG signaling in HDMI being way ahead of that required for dynamic metadata

[DanBa]

As far as I know, the current HDMI 2.0a supports static metadata, and the upcoming HDMI 2.1 upcoming SMPTE dynamic metadata.

I’m wondering what HDMI feature is required by HLG.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

...I’m wondering what HDMI feature is required by HLG.

For just HLG, physically, not much….likely simply a firmware upgrade to 2.0a to bring that capability to consumers right now.

The aim of Draft CTA-861-G is to add both (HLG OETF) and HDR dynamic metadata, the later requiring more. Many in the broadcaster community really like HLG because it suits their needs best and at the same time provides a noticeable improved quality viewing experience over SDR in side-by-side testing. Live HDR content, esp. sports will bring a welcomed awareness to the general public of the HDR parameter that movie freaks are already familiar with. HDR and HFR will be the cat’s meow . For the industry, a fabulous thing about HFR is that it doesn’t need higher bit rates over that of 50/60 fps delivered content.

[Penton-Man]

Anyone recognize any of the viewers in this photo? They’re seated at a private screening of Dolby Vision 3D content here in L.A. -




P.S.
For inquiring minds, that's a no, as to the person in the front row being Jody Eldred (18 min timestamp)...

NAB 2016: Exciting News in the CineAlta Ecosystem - YouTube

[Spike M.]

A little random, but-

My rough understanding of how contrast works with laser projectors is that it uses X amount of mirrors to judge the light levels of a cluster of pixels and then adjusts the light output accordingly, in the case of IMAX using 800,000 mirrors (about 10 pixels each). Based on that, I'm assuming what gives Dolby Vision better blacks is it's algorithmic sensitivity to those light levels. Is that right, and if so does anyone know the amount of mirrors the 6P projectors use?

Thanks! Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere in there, too.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by DanBa

Are SMPTE 2094 -10 dynamic metadata proposed by Dolby exactly the same as Dolby Vision dynamic metadata, or just a subset?
Thanks!

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Hi Dan, good question. Probably best left for an official response from the likes of Pat (Griffis). Meanwhile, I can tell you that for further investigation, if you’re so inclined, Part 10 (which is Application #1 from Dolby) has just been placed (literally, just a few days ago) in the SMPTE store, its publication being ahead of the other Applications (20, 30 and 40) in the approval process.

I think SMPTE 2094-10 dynamic metadata are exactly the same as current Dolby Vision dynamic metadata.

Dolby Vision "v1" = ST2084 + ST2086 + Dolby-documented adaptation for consistent visual
Dolby Vision "v2" = ST2084 + ST2086 + SMPTE ST2094-10 adaptation for consistent visual



http://cafe.naver.com/mk802.cafe?ifr...lArticles=true



According to a Dolby patent, the dynamic metadata of Dolby Vision "v1" is sent from Encoder to Decoder (i.e. a Dolby Vision media player or a Dolby Vision TV (for OTT apps)) in a separate stream.
http://www.google.ch/patents/US20140050271

According to SMPTE ST2094-10, the dynamic metadata of Dolby Vision [v2] is sent from Encoder to Decoder in the HEVC stream:
"There are multiple SEI messages in the HEVC specification [3] which relate to HDR/WCG display mapping. Some key ones are:
- Tone mapping information SEI message
- Mastering display colour volume SEI message
- Colour remapping information SEI message
- Content light level information SEI message
- Ambient viewing environment SEI message"
http://phenix.it-sudparis.eu/jct/doc...ch_sub_group=1

ATEME Extends its High Dynamic Range (HDR) Support with Dolby Vision
"PARIS, MIAMI, SINGAPORE, APRIL 18, 2016 – ATEME announced today that it will extend its HDR support with the addition of Dolby’s HDR technology, Dolby Vision™, into its TITAN solution, a video transcoding software for live and file applications. With content from every major studio, support from leading organizations such as the Blu-ray Disc™ Association, DVB, MPEG and UltraViolet™/DECE, as well as wide adoption by leading SoC and TV manufacturers, consumers can now experience the best Hollywood content in both the cinema and home with Dolby Vision. Building on industry standard SMPTE ST 2084 (PQ) and the BT.2020 color space, the addition of Dolby Vision’s ST 2094 dynamic metadata produces the industry’s ultimate HDR format. Encoded by TITAN in HEVC Main 10, the full Dolby Vision signal is compressed for distribution as a single layer non-backwards compatible stream, or a dual layer stream for uncompromised backward compatibility supporting today’s standard rec.709 TVs as well as the latest Dolby Vision and HDR-10 TVs. These stream configurations can then be selected for a variety of packaging formats to enable optical media (Blu-ray), OTT, terrestrial, cable, satellite, or IPTV deliveries. The integration of Dolby Vision into the TITAN solution will allow content providers, distributors and service providers to apply Dolby Vision technology without adding an additional step in their already complex workflows."
http://www.ateme.com/presse-releases...h_Dolby_Vision

The Dolby Vision compatible Encoder of ATEME should be able to send the SMPTE ST2094-10 dynamic metadata to a Dolby Vision "v2" compatible Decoder as well as the current Dolby Vision dynamic metadata to a Dolby Vision "v1" compatible Decoder.


About BDA & SMPTE ST2094 Dynamic Metadata
According to Thierry Fautier, President of Ultra HD Forum, ST2094 is not part of BDA UHD spec.
BDA’s HDR = HDR10 = ST2084 + ST2086

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

A little random, but-

My rough understanding of how contrast works with laser projectors is that it uses X amount of mirrors to judge the light levels of a cluster of pixels and then adjusts the light output accordingly, in the case of IMAX using 800,000 mirrors (about 10 pixels each). Based on that, I'm assuming what gives Dolby Vision better blacks is it's algorithmic sensitivity to those light levels. Is that right, and if so does anyone know the amount of mirrors the 6P projectors use?

Thanks! Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere in there, too.

Spike, I would have to do more study on integrator rods and such….which would detract from me taking the AHA advice to heart….http://news.heart.org/sitting-too-mu...-disease-risk/ (http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/...00000000000440)

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

I think SMPTE 2094-10 dynamic metadata are exactly the same as current Dolby Vision dynamic metadata....

Excellent compilation of concepts and ideas which we’ve been discussing (here on Blu-ray.com with Richard et al) ever since the Dolby and Movie Labs presentations at HPA 2014. You do good work. As to confirmation of what you’ve concluded again I decline and like I said earlier, defer to Pat G. or in this case, the originator of the respective concept slide at that overseas presentation which you hunted up with due diligence, Torsten Fink.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

According to Thierry Fautier

Thierry pushes VR waaaaay too much for my tastes.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

ATEME

On a side note, the ATEME encoder was used for the HFR study....

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

lol, you do like your numbers Geoff. Being the avid Premier league watcher I know you are (football/soccer to those readers not following), if you’re on a typical 5-6 year TV replacement cycle, come 2019 or 2020 you’ll be ready for a good HFR tv as scientific testing by a professional consortium has shown about a 30% improvement in visual quality (esp. with footage involving camera pans which is common with football) with 100 fps capture, transmission and display as opposed to the typical 50 Hz transmission consumers are settling with now....

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Anyone recognize any of the viewers in this photo? They’re seated at a private screening of Dolby Vision 3D content here in L.A. -

As to front row center in the pic ^ above, look to the right of Josh in the frame grab of this awards video…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...sh#post9536495