Pioneer Elite BDP-LX500

[danny24]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

OK. Here's my story. I have a room in my house with a projector and had only had a DVD player in it, a 2008 Pioneer Elite DV-48AV Super Audio CD/DVD-Audio player, although I didn't originally know it could play Super Audio CD and DVD-Audio. In 2013 or something, I decided to get a Blu-ray player for that room, and back then I didn't really know about Blu-ray players, so I went to Best Buy and bought a cheap one from Korean company "S." I do not like that player at all. It doesn't have a front panel display and when you put a Blu-ray Disc in, the player has the whiniest disc drive I have ever heard. I moved the Pioneer to a very small room in my home where I barely, if ever, watch anything. Even the player I got free three years earlier with my 3D LED display from the same company had a quieter motor and a front panel display, but when the laser moves back and forth it does not sound great (not even back then.) The optical output on it stopped working, so I decided to get a new player.

I had started buying Ultra HD Blu-ray discs early this year as I knew my next player would be an Ultra HD Blu-ray player. This time, I wanted a player completely the opposite of the two players I had before, so I had my sights set on the Pioneer UDP-LX500 as I also listen to a lot of music in this room and want access to Super Audio CD and DVD-Audio. Pioneer had run out of these players in February and was supposed to get more of them in March, and then the crisis happened, causing production to come to a halt. Now I'm waiting for Pioneer to either start making the LX500 again (with the HDR10+ update) or preferably introduce a new one. I didn't want to upgrade my display to 4K until an OLED with both dynamic HDR formats was introduced, and that already happened before I knew it. So now I have a 4K display but no player.

I will be using the player I got free with the old display until Pioneer starts making players again, then will be moving the free player to the room where the projector is, and the cheap player to the room where I hardly watch anything. I recently decided to step into the world of High-Resolution Surround Audio, so I decided to move the 48AV back to the projector room which is where it originally was. Once the new Pioneer comes, I will be able to listen to High-Resolution Surround Audio discs on both of my systems.

You could always hunt online for a used LX500. You never know when someone will sell it at a fair price.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by R3P0

Your missing the point of my post. Point is many commenting are not owners they have read X/Y/Z from an article and state things as fact. IE your post about the disk drive "thud" My drive does not thud, it opens it closes its fine. This is a well built unit and it deserves praise for how well it performs and how well built it is. It is the best at what it does if HDR10 + comes later so be it, if it doesn't so what so the 5 movies I own with that feature wont play it as they don't play it now.

Do I hope Pioneer release the firmware sure I do, but im not going to cry over spilled milk here as this was the best player I could buy when I could afford it. Its what every sales person I talked to recommended including Robert from this site.

My LX-500 doesn't thud. It is well built. However, I'm concern that Pioneer will no longer support it with updates.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

If Pioneer was so perfect, and nobody made a better player than they did. why did they have such a small following and no WiFi?


Most of the posts in this thread are not about the LX-500 from many owners, that tells you something.

I never understood why the Pioneer didn't add wi-fi to the LX-500. Anyway, I get around that by plugging in my Wi-Fi extender to the ethernet port whenever I want to update.

[Tenny80]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

There is no comparison. As an audio and video disc player, Pioneer's possible upcoming player will blow any game console out of the water. It will be able to play HDR10+ and Dolby Vision (consoles are limited to the basic HDR10) and you will also be able to step into the amazing world of High-Resolution Surround Audio with Super Audio CD and DVD-Audio playback. In addition, the disc drive will be much more sound-insulated compared to the consoles. It will also have two HDMI outputs so you can enjoy the best possible video quality by connecting directly to your display while simultaneously enjoying the best possible audio quality by connecting directly to your sound device. And there will be very little if any plastic on the machine.

However, as I mentioned in earlier posts, you will need to be patient and wait for Pioneer to announce this new model.

Thanks my one x is still working so i'll hold out for now. I'm happy with the performance of it for 4k playback, but I think the quality of the drive is subpar, as it is already having issues and its only a year old.

[BijouMan]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

My LX-500 doesn't thud. It is well built. However, I'm concern that Pioneer will no longer support it with updates.

It’s not supposed to. That’s just what HDTVTest relates the quality of this player to. Go to 2:33 of his review.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

It’s not supposed to. That’s just what HDTVTest relates the quality of this player to. Go to 2:33 of his review.

You need to rewatch and pay attention to what he says in that review. He flat out says its quiet and makes almost no noise. He equivalates that to purchasing a new Mercedes and that sound you hear when the door closes that "Thud". He says the door has one of the smoothest quietest operations he has ever seen on a player. The way you worded it in your original post was not right which is what people are fixating on.

[BijouMan]

Originally Posted by R3P0

You need to rewatch and pay attention to what he says in that review. He flat out says its quiet and makes almost no noise. He equivalates that to purchasing a new Mercedes and that sound you hear when the door closes that "Thud". He says the door has one of the smoothest quietest operations he has ever seen on a player. The way you worded it in your original post was not right which is what people are fixating on.

That’s exactly what I meant! Sorry if I said it wrong.

[Vilya]

While I do plan to add another 4K disc player, I am not holding my breath that Pioneer will offer one again.

They are in such financial disarray having been bought and then resold time and again. Even if they do return and start to make A/V gear again, will it be the same quality as it was before? I wonder how many of their talented designers and engineers stayed with them through all of this turmoil? I just do not have a lot of optimism regarding the future of Pioneer and any of their products; I certainly hope that I am wrong and that they make a comeback.

[BijouMan]

Originally Posted by Vilya

While I do plan to add another 4K disc player, I am not holding my breath that Pioneer will offer one again.

They are in such financial disarray having been bought and then resold time and again. Even if they do return and start to make A/V gear again, will it be the same quality as it was before? I wonder how many of their talented designers and engineers stayed with them through all of this turmoil? I just do not have a lot of optimism regarding the future of Pioneer and any of their products; I certainly hope that I am wrong and that they make a comeback.

The LX500 is the only product they removed from their website. They didn’t remove the page where it goes. When I called them, they answered almost instantly. This implies that a new model is in the works. They will not remove any quality as their players are actually designed to match their high-end receivers. They will get lots of orders for all their other things too, which will be a step in the right direction for Pioneer.

UPDATE: It looks like Pioneer has all but, albeit quietly, exited the disc player market. For those who want a machine with all these features there is the MAGNETAR.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Streaming and download are much more popular then physical media. And if 10+ years from now they stop making optical discs, then that would be evidence that there is a format war going on. But I hope both formats will coexist for many more years.

Subscription streaming is what is popular.

Purchases of video content, all formats combined, have been declining since 2011 and digital sales only overtook physical sales this year and not by a huge amount. People are buying less content overall no matter how it is distributed. People largely prefer to use subscription streaming.

One thing being more popular than another thing does not mean that those things are in a "war." Discs are often sold with a digital code included; they are called "combo packs" for this reason. Discs are not "sleeping with the enemy" when they include a digital code; they compliment each other in many ways.

Anecdotally, I do not know of anyone who downloads movies.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

The LX500 is the only product they removed from their website. They didn’t remove the page where it goes. When I called them, they answered almost instantly. This implies that a new model is in the works. They will not remove any quality as their players are actually designed to match their high-end receivers. They will get lots of orders for all their other things too, which will be a step in the right direction for Pioneer.

I hope your enthusiastic optimism bears fruit; I really do, but I remain skeptical. If they do return, I wonder if they will have retained both their talent and their quality standards. I do not have blind faith in what a phone customer service representative tells me; it is not as if they are at liberty to say anything but positive things about their employer.

I have been shopping a few different A/V product categories and I can not find any Pioneer products in stock across several major retailers. Pioneer is not making much money if few to no retailers have anything from them to sell.

I will be scarce as I have "virtual" holiday plans to work on. I wish everyone here, even those with whom I have disagreed, a Happy Thanksgiving.

[danny24]

I think there is a strong chance Pioneer will roll out a new UHD player model for 2021. Sales for the LX500 must have been good enough.

[LexInHD]

I am not sure we'll see any new players unless new chipsets arrive. There's basically nothing new or advanced for player designs to use at this point and what was around several years ago is all there is. Sigma Designs is dead, Realtek is producing nuffin, and MediaTek is puttering along with what they had initially offered for players and focused on TV SoCs. At this point, we could - and I've looked into it - move playback into the TV's (or 4K set-top boxes) themselves and simply use USB-connected Blu-Ray drives, as the TV/box SoCs - which the player SoCs are derived from and share tech with - have all the hardware and (probably most of the) software required (minus an actual disc player or functionality built into their video player software) for the decoding and DRM components of UHD-BD and use eARC for connectivity to soundbars and AVRs for multi-channel audio decoding.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by LexInHD

I am not sure we'll see any new players unless new chipsets arrive.

That makes sense.

There's basically nothing new or advanced for player designs to use at this point and what was around several years ago is all there is. Sigma Designs is dead, Realtek is producing nuffin, and MediaTek is puttering along with what they had initially offered for players and focused on TV SoCs.

Realtek does have the new RTD1619DR as used in the Zidoo and Dune media players. Don't know if it could be used in a disc player and even if it could would it have any advantage over what is currently available. Zappiti is supposedly bringing out a new media player based upon the Realtek RTD1619DR.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by LexInHD

I am not sure we'll see any new players unless new chipsets arrive. There's basically nothing new or advanced for player designs to use at this point and what was around several years ago is all there is. Sigma Designs is dead, Realtek is producing nuffin, and MediaTek is puttering along with what they had initially offered for players and focused on TV SoCs. At this point, we could - and I've looked into it - move playback into the TV's (or 4K set-top boxes) themselves and simply use USB-connected Blu-Ray drives, as the TV/box SoCs - which the player SoCs are derived from and share tech with - have all the hardware and (probably most of the) software required (minus an actual disc player or functionality built into their video player software) for the decoding and DRM components of UHD-BD and use eARC for connectivity to soundbars and AVRs for multi-channel audio decoding.

Back when UHD BD players first arrived the number of SoC device manufacturers was greatly reduced compared to BD players, principally because it needs to have integrated HDMI 2.0 interface to work for UHD BD player. The SoC offerings seem more directed towards phones, lesser to 4K TVs, lastly towards UHD BD players. Mediatek has the lions share with 70% of TVs.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

That makes sense.

Realtek does have the new RTD1619DR as used in the Zidoo and Dune media players. Don't know if it could be used in a disc player and even if it could would it have any advantage over what is currently available. Zappiti is supposedly bringing out a new media player based upon the Realtek RTD1619DR.

The SoCs in a media-layer like Dune, Zidoo, are not used to play physical media, instead to play video/audio codecs. They don't have official licensed support for say AV1 as one example.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

The first and current/last player models from both "S" companies and company "L" are quite similar but have added features. I reckon Pioneer's new player would be quite similar to the LX500 with a few minor but worthwhile new additions. Manufacturers kept introducing new Blu-ray players from 2006-2016 before the Ultra HD Blu-ray era. Also, eARC tends to "do stuff" to the audio data before sending it out unlike the player which sends it out directly, and some display manufacturers only allow output of Dolby audio, not anything DTS. The SoCs in the players are optimized for video conversion to data that can be output from HDMI and the SoCs in the displays are optimized for processing that into an image you can see. Computer SoCs can do both, but they are much more expensive. And Sony will never certify a computer drive to read Super Audio CDs.

Pioneer could use a more powerful SoC to enable HDR10 dimming, which would make more people buy it.

I must have missed a news flash.

Why do people want to dim HDR?
I consider Sony light cannon releases to be revelatory on my Z9D.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

I'm talking about Pioneer's potential version of a system which I will not name on this thread but is found on the other "P" company's players that dims HDR10 content down to a brightness closer to your display's maximum brightness.

Okay, you’re referring to the HDR Optomiser tone mapping by Panasonic’s HCX video processing chip. That’s an exclusive of theirs that AFAIK would not be available on MediaTek SOC’s.

Nobody else has that feature for the foreseeable future.
And the better that displays get at showing higher nits like 2,000 or higher in the future, then the less need there is for tone mapping. It’ll be a moo point at some time.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by gkolb

[Show spoiler]Okay, you’re referring to the HDR Optomiser tone mapping by Panasonic’s HCX video processing chip. That’s an exclusive of theirs that AFAIK would not be available on MediaTek SOC’s.

Nobody else has that feature for the foreseeable future.
And the better that displays get at showing higher nits like 2,000 or higher in the future, then the less need there is for tone mapping.

It’ll be a moo point at some time.

Recognition of their contributions at last!

[LexInHD]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Okay, you’re referring to the HDR Optomiser tone mapping by Panasonic’s HCX video processing chip. That’s an exclusive of theirs that AFAIK would not be available on MediaTek SOC’s.

HDR optimization and other functions are built into the MediaTek SoCs. They don't say "Here's our Super Image Improvement Processor!", cause companies like to say it's their own stuff. JVC shared the HDR Optimizer branding with Panasonic and then magically switched to their own thing a short time later, called Frame Adapt HDR.