The Anime Blu-ray Video Quality Thread - Page 79 - Blu-ray Forum

SeaFox · 12-26-2017, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincentric

I did see some rough spots in the FUNi BD here and there but could not find any JP caps to compare them to. Am thinking the JP BD might contain the same rough spots as well if only I had the JP BD in hand I could make an even more proper comparison between the two versions.

I was mainly concerned with Funi boosting brightness (ruining blacks) and there being banding from them doing that. Pretty much a repeat of Steins;Gate on a series with even more dark/night scenes. Those screenshots certainly make me feel better about opening my copy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincentric

Have a quick question, how does the PQ look for FUNi's 2017 release of GitS 2 Innocence? Same, worse, or any better than previous versions?

I'm also curious about this. Will have a copy winging its way to me soon.

Jo Jo · 12-26-2017, 09:05 PM

It looks crappier than my UK bluray release of it. Needless to say my funi version is going bye bye tomorrow.

kevers7290 · 12-26-2017, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincentric

I have the JP release of the Steins movie and the Sentai release of Big O (ordered recently from Sentai sale) that I can provide screencaps for, then possibly perhaps someone who owns the other version can try to match my images with some of their own (as I did with the Ergo Proxy comparison)?

Awesome! Take your time, no rush.

vincentric · 12-26-2017, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevers7290

Awesome! Take your time, no rush.

I remember taking some screencaps of the JP BD Steins;Gate movie here available to anyone who wants to compare it to the FUNi release - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...5#post11397385

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincentric

Checked out the JP release of the Steins;Gate movie. Long story short, PQ is impeccable.

I looked high and low in areas where crap would be most visible -- dark and shadowy areas, static clothing and backgrounds, contrasting lights, etc... could not find any video related eyesores. It looks almost too good to be true. Video nerd in me is very happy.

[Show spoiler]

My video and audio data numbers from that post are a little off, video is closer to 24 GB of data and audio 5 GB but nonetheless the average video bitrate for the JP release is excellent at 37.3 Mb/s -

Code:

Video
ID                             : 1
Format                         : AVC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Video Codec
Duration                       : 1 h 30 min
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Bit rate                       : 37.3 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate               : 39.0 Mb/s
Width                          : 1 920 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 16:9
Frame rate mode                : Constant
Frame rate                     : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive

I'll take some screencaps of the Sentai Big O release when I get it delivered.

vincentric · 12-27-2017, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaFox

I was mainly concerned with Funi boosting brightness (ruining blacks) and there being banding from them doing that. Pretty much a repeat of Steins;Gate on a series with even more dark/night scenes. Those screenshots certainly make me feel better about opening my copy.

I'm also curious about this. Will have a copy winging its way to me soon.

I have a copy of the 2009 US BD Bandai Visual release of GitS Innocence I can provide screencaps for you to match, or vice versa I can match your screencaps of the FUNi version with the Bandai one if you'd be interested in working on a comparison for it?

husky1993a · 12-27-2017, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincentric

Pretty much this.

I also use mpc hc and vlc, mpc hc have better organized menus and is snappier to use but vlc is more stable (particularly with mkv) and able to play a wider range of files without having to install additional third party codecs. All in all, I still keep mpc installed for its ease of use but prefer vlc for its stability. As for screencaps, fraps and faststone to me are almost unbeatable for capturing and viewing.

Lastly, PotPlayer is looking like another good media player option but haven't tried it yet.

I've been using PotPlayer and it's been really useful so far.

SeaFox · 12-27-2017, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincentric

I have a copy of the 2009 US BD Bandai Visual release of GitS Innocence I can provide screencaps for you to match, or vice versa I can match your screencaps of the FUNi version with the Bandai one if you'd be interested in working on a comparison for it?

That's not a bad idea.

vincentric · 12-28-2017, 01:43 AM

Cool and no hurry, whenever you want to start the comparison let me know.

vincentric · 01-03-2018, 06:36 AM

Didn't get a chance to check the data for the other three discs though I reckon they contain the same amount, I'll check next time I get a chance to be sure.

Ajc228 · 01-03-2018, 03:35 PM

I’m strongly considering buying the old Bandai dvds because they removed the Big O theme due to it being a copyright nightmare.

kevers7290 · 01-03-2018, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincentric

Have some Sentai Big O caps -

[Show spoiler]

Thank you so much for this. You rock!

Dino-Killer 912 · 01-04-2018, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

It's supposed to be 1080i because there are 30p and 60i parts and let's not forget the fake unnatural grain on the Funimation release.

Wow, that's really a convincing analysis. Thank you for quoting it! I had trouble considering which release I should buy, now I know I should ignore the US release. Besides, the UK release doesn't have forced English subtitles, it is joyous for a non-English speaker like me.
However, according to screenshot comparisons between the UK release and German/French release, it seems that German/French release has clearer lines? So the German/French release actually has the best video quality?

professorwho · 01-04-2018, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dino-Killer 912

So the German release actually has the best video quality?

Actually, it's the Italian and Japanese releases that are best. (Both the Italian and German releases were from the same encoder/compressionest- mp3dom- the Italian one has a higher bitrate, thus is better).

No English subs or dub is included- you'd have to remux them together to make the best Bebop experience.

NLScavenger · 01-04-2018, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dino-Killer 912

Wow, that's really a convincing analysis. Thank you for quoting it! I had trouble considering which release I should buy, now I know I should ignore the US release. Besides, the UK release doesn't have forced English subtitles, it is joyous for a non-English speaker like me.
However, according to screenshot comparisons between the UK release and German/French release, it seems that German/French release has clearer lines? So the German/French release actually has the best video quality?

The person I quoted, mp3dom, did the encoding of the Dynit (Italian) and Dybex (French/German) Cowboy Bebop Blu-ray releases.

He also said this regarding the Bandai Visual Blu-ray and the Dynit Blu-ray:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp3dom

While the average bitrate is almost the same, the encode is different. Bandai made the encode at true 60i (meaning that all the 60i fields are effectively encoded into the stream) so the ~37 Mbps are spread across 30 interlaced frames. On the contrary, IT version is a 23.98 soft-pulldown encode like most of NTSC film DVDs out there. The 23.98 parts are effectively encoded at 23.98p (so the bitrate is spread across 24 progressive frames) but played back at 59.94i (frames are soft-'flagged' so a good bluray player or PS3/PS4 are able to outputs 60p without problems like old "progressive scan" players) while 60i/30p parts are flagged and encoded as 60i/30p. This is the approach I decided to use (the only thing left to try to improve the result even further). No frames were dropped. If the release at the end is better or worse than the japanese counterpart... I leave the judgment to the ones who bought the release.

Dino-Killer 912 · 01-04-2018, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by professorwho

Actually, it's the Italian and Japanese releases that are best. (Both the Italian and German releases were from the same encoder/compressionest- mp3dom- the Italian one has a higher bitrate, thus is better).

No English subs or dub is included- you'd have to remux them together to make the best Bebop experience.

I do need English subtitles for Japanese voice actors' audio commentaries... I can't afford JP release, and IT release is more expensive than UK release. Maybe I should choose UK release? The only thing bothering me is that some lines in UK release pictures seem blurred.

Dino-Killer 912 · 01-04-2018, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

The person I quoted, mp3dom, did the encoding of the Dynit (Italian) and Dybex (French/German) Cowboy Bebop Blu-ray releases.

He also said this regarding the Bandai Visual Blu-ray and the Dynit Blu-ray:

Well, that's quite intricate... Do you recommend UK release? I need English subtitles for Japanese audio commentaries. The only bothering me is that some lines in UK release pictures seem blurred.

NLScavenger · 01-04-2018, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dino-Killer 912

Well, that's quite intricate... Do you recommend UK release? I need English subtitles for Japanese audio commentaries. The only bothering me is that some lines in UK release pictures seem blurred.

I don't have the UK Blu-ray, but from what I've seen on caps-a-holic and elsewhere, it looks acceptable. There is of course still room for improvement, but I don't think it's a bad release.

What ever you do, don't buy the US Blu-ray. I still feel the buyer's remorse. The degraining artifacts, fake grain and bad compression are an eyesore.

vincentric · 01-04-2018, 11:48 PM

I recall doing a comparison for the UK and FUNi Bebop releases here - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...3#post11645893

In short summary the UK BD has clearer line rendering but contains increased brightness and banding.

The FUNi BD contains more grain that seemingly does some good and bad in that it reduces/eliminates the banding but at the expense of less detailed line rendering.

Lambadelta · 01-04-2018, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincentric

I recall doing a comparison for the UK and FUNi Bebop releases here - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...3#post11645893

In short summary the UK BD has clearer line rendering but contains increased brightness and banding.

The FUNi BD contains more grain that seemingly does some good and bad in that it reduces/eliminates the banding but at the expense of less detailed line rendering.

Didn't FUNi de-grain Bebop, and then add in artificial grain?

professorwho · 01-04-2018, 11:59 PM

Here's my opinion on all the versions:

USA (FUNimation)
Pros: Proper brightness settings (not increased like UK), excellent 5.1 audio, less banding, all extras
Cons: Fake grain (which was added because they degrained it to begin with), CGI is lowered to 24fps to maintain 1080p, poor compression despite good bitrate

UK (Anime Limited)
Pros: CGI is at 30fps, 5.1 audio that's on par with USA BD
Cons: Brightness is boosted, more banding, missing extras (retrospectives and interviews), lower bitrate than other releases

Italy/Germany/France (Dynit/Dybex)
Pros: CGI is at 30fps, Proper brightness settings, good 5.1 audio (Japanese), Italian Dynit has high bitrate (37Mbps)
Cons: Not all extras, no English subtitles or English dub.

In general, I'd get the Italian set, and then get either the USA or UK set to remux the dub and subtitles- as the audio commentaries are subtitled on BOTH English releases.

There is no definitive version, as, while Dynit is the closest, it doesn't have English options, thus a workaround is required.

12-26-2017, 09:05 PM	#1562
Jo Jo Banned Member since:Dec 2017	It looks crappier than my UK bluray release of it. Needless to say my funi version is going bye bye tomorrow.

12-28-2017, 01:43 AM	#1568
vincentric Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Feb 2013 Location:Bay Area, CA 4K collection:321 Blu-ray collection:1003 Trading Score:266	Cool and no hurry, whenever you want to start the comparison let me know.

01-03-2018, 06:36 AM	#1569
vincentric Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Feb 2013 Location:Bay Area, CA 4K collection:321 Blu-ray collection:1003 Trading Score:266	Have some Sentai Big O caps - https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4681/3...97383f5f_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4679/2...afa5b81e_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4597/3...53147f99_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4689/3...b102e795_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4637/2...46b87fb1_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4643/2...e6746b8d_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4638/3...ea0882ab_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4736/2...9dbb0905_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4633/2...de6849d5_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4637/2...7b054322_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4601/2...2bd83aa1_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4730/2...d9f19703_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4639/2...f2297fcf_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4644/2...8b21dc2e_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4686/3...eed20e30_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4725/3...44367cd5_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4638/2...553261e1_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4727/3...7861fbbe_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4679/3...d1be48d9_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4599/3...58fa18f3_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4737/2...c794bfa2_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4731/3...9dcb5d04_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4598/2...e477573d_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4735/3...a287f6a1_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4692/3...e8f3131d_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4693/3...462ccee3_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4642/3...e5f74338_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4688/3...8c85f816_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4734/3...a280c2f9_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4638/2...9e340db4_o.png https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4736/2...5d49d068_o.png It doesn't seem to suffer from any banding or major compression issues which is always nice to see. But I did notice some black crush and spotty upscale line work here and there, as well as noticeable edge ringing surrounding the windowbox, though am uncertain if those are issues also present in the JP BD. As for data the eps are spread out in typical 9/4/9/4 fashion, each ep contains 4.5 - 4.6 GB with around 4.1 GB for the video \| 400 - 500 MB for audio. After some quick maths that's around 21-22 Mb/s of video bitrate. Didn't get a chance to check the data for the other three discs though I reckon they contain the same amount, I'll check next time I get a chance to be sure.

01-03-2018, 03:35 PM	#1570
Ajc228 Senior Member Member since:Mar 2017 Location:Mars	I’m strongly considering buying the old Bandai dvds because they removed the Big O theme due to it being a copyright nightmare.

01-04-2018, 11:48 PM	#1578
vincentric Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Feb 2013 Location:Bay Area, CA 4K collection:321 Blu-ray collection:1003 Trading Score:266	I recall doing a comparison for the UK and FUNi Bebop releases here - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...3#post11645893 In short summary the UK BD has clearer line rendering but contains increased brightness and banding. The FUNi BD contains more grain that seemingly does some good and bad in that it reduces/eliminates the banding but at the expense of less detailed line rendering.

01-04-2018, 11:59 PM	#1580
professorwho Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Apr 2017 4K collection:229 Blu-ray collection:982 Blu-ray reviews: 64 Trading Score:7	Here's my opinion on all the versions: USA (FUNimation) Pros: Proper brightness settings (not increased like UK), excellent 5.1 audio, less banding, all extras Cons: Fake grain (which was added because they degrained it to begin with), CGI is lowered to 24fps to maintain 1080p, poor compression despite good bitrate UK (Anime Limited) Pros: CGI is at 30fps, 5.1 audio that's on par with USA BD Cons: Brightness is boosted, more banding, missing extras (retrospectives and interviews), lower bitrate than other releases Italy/Germany/France (Dynit/Dybex) Pros: CGI is at 30fps, Proper brightness settings, good 5.1 audio (Japanese), Italian Dynit has high bitrate (37Mbps) Cons: Not all extras, no English subtitles or English dub. In general, I'd get the Italian set, and then get either the USA or UK set to remux the dub and subtitles- as the audio commentaries are subtitled on BOTH English releases. There is no definitive version, as, while Dynit is the closest, it doesn't have English options, thus a workaround is required.

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