HDTVTEST (Vincent Teoh) Discussion Thread

[DisplayCalNoob]

How could anyone not want all the benefits that come with a 20% boost in peak brightness? Better highlight detail without tone mapping for most content, as well as better color volume performance.

[ThulsaMike88]

The new Sony A90J Master Series OLED is slated to top out at around 1300 nits on a 10% window. That's plenty bright for me, despite not completely melting your eyeballs out in a dark room a la Sony's LEDs. Coupled with perfect blacks, and TV-led Dolby Vision (finally), I think I will be content with that.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by ThulsaMike88

The new Sony A90J Master Series OLED is slated to top out at around 1300 nits. That's plenty bright for me, despite not completely melting your eyeballs out in a dark room a la Sony's LEDs. Coupled with perfect black and tv-led Dolby Vision (finally), I think I will be content with that.

If that's true, then that's plenty bright for film's.
Still, some people will never be satisfied.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMH...ature=youtu.be

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

How could anyone not want all the benefits that come with a 20% boost in peak brightness? Better highlight detail without tone mapping for most content, as well as better color volume performance.

It's a great question. I would be keeping a very keen eye on how much better the colour volume is. If the range from 800-1300 nits is going to be badly desaturated, then it's less worth having. We're told there are new colour filters which should help combat the desaturation, so I'm eager to see the results in real testing on these new panels!

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by Darkmninya

Vincent Videos are great and informative and he knows what he is talking about. But the recent HDR comparasion is for me Marketing

Is HDR better with more Brightness ? Of course.
But do u need more Brightness with Tonemapping? Probably no

He's a "YouTube Influencer", research that and you'll understand why's he's a marketer.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by lgans316

+1.

I think deep in our heart, most of us are nit wh0res lol. I still miss the eyeballs melting brightness my DX902 offered but at the moment we can't have the cake and eat it.

I am keeping a tab on this 1,312 nits OLED hype. If it turns to be true, I will have to look at replacing my 2019 OLED that I bought last year.

If I lived in a bigger house, I will happily buy a used DX902 or ZD9 or 930e for cheap to melt my eyeballs.

In 2022 Vincent will convince that your $4,000 2021 OLED is garbage when the 2022 OLEDS hit 1600 nits. You will keep upgrading every year until you upgrade right on in to Micro-LED.

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

In 2022 Vincent will convince that your $4,000 2021 OLED is garbage when the 2022 OLEDS hit 1600 nits. You will keep upgrading every year until you upgrade right on in to Micro-LED.

Your obsession is bordering on creepy, bud.

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by lgans316

+1.

I think deep in our heart, most of us are nit wh0res lol. I still miss the eyeballs melting brightness my DX902 offered but at the moment we can't have the cake and eat it.

I am keeping a tab on this 1,312 nits OLED hype. If it turns to be true, I will have to look at replacing my 2019 OLED that I bought last year.

If I lived in a bigger house, I will happily buy a used DX902 or ZD9 or 930e for cheap to melt my eyeballs.

I've never been a 'nits wh0re'. I've been happy with my 2016 OLED for many years, but I will admit I'm tempted by the new Sony models for 2021 (though, I feel I say this every year, only not to pull the trigger); My biggest thing right now is motion-resolution. I don't see any LCD or OLED on the market right now that can match what my ten year old plasma in my bedroom can do in terms of pure lucid and exceptional motion (the whole 24p @ 96hz thing, you know?) -- so is brightness and wider color volume enough for me to 'upgrade'? No, it's not. Even with money to piss away, I can't do it on devices that are barely evolutionary steps forward, let alone not revolutionary steps forward.

This is also why I'm fine with waiting for as long as it takes for Micro LED to hit the consumer market at reasonable prices. It may be able to get brighter than OLED, without the issue of image-retention (though I feel like that issue has long been overblown with OLED, anyway) -- but when are these technologies going to get things like better motion-resolution, when tech like plasma were able to do this fifteen years ago? That is very important to me right now, as I feel brightness and color volume is negligible when being compared side-by-side.

Also, it helps that while even though I am personally a fan of HDR, a lot of my favorite DOPs don't seem to use it on the high-end side (Deakins, Fraser, Hardy, etc) -- and even the films and projects that do use brighter HDR, they're almost all available in Dolby Vision in one way or another, so it at least allows my lowly OLED to at least properly tone-map those titles to the most optimal setting for my panel.

For me, an OLED that could do 1,000-nits of peak brightness, wider color volume, better screen reflective finish, and most importantly, a massive improvement in motion-resolution without impeding on the brightness of the picture, at least to the extent where it removes HDR completely, is what would get me to finally do an 'upgrade'.

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

It's a great question. I would be keeping a very keen eye on how much better the colour volume is. If the range from 800-1300 nits is going to be badly desaturated, then it's less worth having. We're told there are new colour filters which should help combat the desaturation, so I'm eager to see the results in real testing on these new panels!

Thanks for the important post.

For the A90J OLED series Sony engineers have implemented the higher peak brightness with a priority method to preserve the color volume by boosting the RGB above the white with an algorithm that maintains excellent color fidelity and color saturation in the entire dynamic tonal range.

This new methodology of boosting the peak luminance works in concert with Sony's new thermally controlled (and stabilized across the entire screen) A90J heatsink system.

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

Also, it helps that while even though I am personally a fan of HDR, a lot of my favorite DOPs don't seem to use it on the high-end side (Deakins, Fraser, Hardy, etc)

The argument there, especially on a model like yours - which I owned at one point, too - is that those low nit HDR grades would punish such a set arguably more so than high nit titles, based on how it tone maps. The older OLEDs would tone map based on max mastering display luminance, which means that even if a movie only hit 100 nits max, but was mastered on a 4000 nit monitor, then the TV would be using that 4000 nit value to compress the range into whatever the TV supports. Titles that support Dolby Vision are a different matter as they, as you said, tone map more effectively.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

The argument there, especially on a model like yours - which I owned at one point, too - is that those low nit HDR grades would punish such a set arguably more so than high nit titles, based on how it tone maps. The older OLEDs would tone map based on max mastering display luminance, which means that even if a movie only hit 100 nits max, but was mastered on a 4000 nit monitor, then the TV would be using that 4000 nit value to compress the range into whatever the TV supports. Titles that support Dolby Vision are a different matter as they, as you said, tone map more effectively.

Which begs the question, will we ever have TVs than can 100% display HDR correctly?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by lgans316

.....to melt my eyeballs.

hope you’re being facetious ^, and so folks don’t get the wrong impression, even the Sony 4K 10,000 nit prototype does not melt one’s eyeballs - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...c#post16673062
and is actually superb, visually.

P.S.
for those not having FB access to the ^ MITC post in past conversation with Stacey - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...k#post16674000

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

hope you’re being facetious ^, and so folks don’t get the wrong impression, even the Sony 4K 10,000 nit prototype does not melt one’s eyeballs - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...c#post16673062
and is actually superb, visually.

P.S.
for those not having FB access to the ^ MITC post in past conversation with Stacey - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...k#post16674000

Thanks.

Batman V Superman has some crazy HDR moments. This doesn't come in the form of gradual increase in dynamic range. It just flashes all of a sudden and it was quite overwhelming to the eyes I remember watching it on my Panasonic DX902 LED-LCD and I had some eyestrain after watching the Doomsday fight.

In no way one can even watch 1000 nits of full field brightness with flashing contents in a pitch black room for more than few seconds. If they do they must have some special pair of eyes.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

Your obsession is bordering on creepy, bud.

What's that.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

I've never been a 'nits wh0re'. I've been happy with my 2016 OLED for many years, but I will admit I'm tempted by the new Sony models for 2021 (though, I feel I say this every year, only not to pull the trigger); My biggest thing right now is motion-resolution. I don't see any LCD or OLED on the market right now that can match what my ten year old plasma in my bedroom can do in terms of pure lucid and exceptional motion (the whole 24p @ 96hz thing, you know?) -- so is brightness and wider color volume enough for me to 'upgrade'? No, it's not. Even with money to piss away, I can't do it on devices that are barely evolutionary steps forward, let alone not revolutionary steps forward.

This is also why I'm fine with waiting for as long as it takes for Micro LED to hit the consumer market at reasonable prices. It may be able to get brighter than OLED, without the issue of image-retention (though I feel like that issue has long been overblown with OLED, anyway) -- but when are these technologies going to get things like better motion-resolution, when tech like plasma were able to do this fifteen years ago? That is very important to me right now, as I feel brightness and color volume is negligible when being compared side-by-side.

Also, it helps that while even though I am personally a fan of HDR, a lot of my favorite DOPs don't seem to use it on the high-end side (Deakins, Fraser, Hardy, etc) -- and even the films and projects that do use brighter HDR, they're almost all available in Dolby Vision in one way or another, so it at least allows my lowly OLED to at least properly tone-map those titles to the most optimal setting for my panel.

For me, an OLED that could do 1,000-nits of peak brightness, wider color volume, better screen reflective finish, and most importantly, a massive improvement in motion-resolution without impeding on the brightness of the picture, at least to the extent where it removes HDR completely, is what would get me to finally do an 'upgrade'.

Smart man. Throwing away an expensive OLED every year makes no sense, a monumental waste of money. Might as wait until you have the be all end all of display tech.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

Which begs the question, will we ever have TVs than can 100% display HDR correctly?

I think reliability, price and power consumption or the main holdback.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by chip75

I think reliability, price and power consumption or the main holdback.

Phil Colins said it best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E86c...ature=youtu.be

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

It's a great question. I would be keeping a very keen eye on how much better the colour volume is. If the range from 800-1300 nits is going to be badly desaturated, then it's less worth having. We're told there are new colour filters which should help combat the desaturation, so I'm eager to see the results in real testing on these new panels!

Yep yep yep, very good point about the brightness not necessarily having the colour volume. Can't wait for the reviews to appear, Vincent's especially.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Thanks.

Batman V Superman has some crazy HDR moments. This doesn't come in the form of gradual increase in dynamic range. It just flashes all of a sudden and it was quite overwhelming to the eyes I remember watching it on my Panasonic DX902 LED-LCD and I had some eyestrain after watching the Doomsday fight.

In no way one can even watch 1000 nits of full field brightness with flashing contents in a pitch black room for more than few seconds. If they do they must have some special pair of eyes.

not full field, but rather speculars (highlights), there should be no eye strain when utilized correctly as here -

Sony Stuns CES 2018 with 85-inch 8K HDR Display: 10,000 Nits... Wow! - YouTube

heck, if the screen is large enough and you’re sitting close enough you can induce ciliary muscle strain on purpose with as little as ~ 100 nits full field if the creator chooses to, e.g. Inside Out

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Smart man. Throwing away an expensive OLED every year makes no sense, a monumental waste of money. Might as wait until you have the be all end all of display tech.

who does that? Or, more precisely, what proportion of the membership here or avsforum.com are compelled to change out their TVs so often, be it every year or even every other year? I’m wondering how many people we’re *saving* here with this discussion.