List of UHDs that contain Dolby Vision

[Penton-Man]

^ Correct filmfreak… this is a red boxed flow chart illustration of your assertion, i.e. there is no connecting line between the generic HDR deliverable(HDR10) and the dolby vision grade. (the entire left side of the flow chart is less illuminated as the dolby vision cinema grade can be a useful starting point for a home video master but, the content creator doesn’t necessarily have to do a Dolby Vision cinema DCP master initially in order to derive a dolby vision home video master, i.e. it’s not a prerequisite).

[256k]

Have you guys though that maybe the original DV movies include the DV Metadata on the normal UHD release, but we cannot know it without a DV Player?, i mean, it's not that crazy, Netflix does it, having 2 metadatas to be detected by the type of TV (In this case player)

VUDU has that metadata for Dolby Vision movies, and each movie includes that code to see it on DV, so maybe when LG970 gets the update for DV, if we insert "The Revenant" the DV movie pops up, maybe it wasnt mentioned on the box until june because there was no sense to mention something that was impossible to use...., i mean, since it is impossible to rip a UHD movie to see the metadata, we dont really know what's inside, and why give you the option to see digitally the movie on DV (Because right now digital is the only way to see DV) and HDR10 if you dont have it ready for both metadata? Thats why i think that maybe both metadata are inside the movies that on VUDU has a DV version

Let's wait and have faith, maybe we dont have to re-buy all those movies to have them on DV, i'm sick of the black crush/clipping from HDR10, want to see everything perfectly and without problems on DV already

(Sorry for my bad english, i'm from spain XD)

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by 256k

Have you guys though that maybe the original DV movies include the DV Metadata on the normal UHD release, but we cannot know it without a DV Player?, i mean, it's not that crazy, Netflix does it, having 2 metadatas to be detected by the type of TV (In this case player)

VUDU has that metadata for Dolby Vision movies, and each movie includes that code to see it on DV, so maybe when LG970 gets the update for DV, if we insert "The Revenant" the DV movie pops up, maybe it wasnt mentioned on the box until june because there was no sense to mention something that was impossible to use...., i mean, since it is impossible to rip a UHD movie to see the metadata, we dont really know what's inside, and why give you the option to see digitally the movie on DV (Because right now digital is the only way to see DV) and HDR10 if you dont have it ready for both metadata? Thats why i think that maybe both metadata are inside the movies that on VUDU has a DV version

Let's wait and have faith, maybe we dont have to re-buy all those movies to have them on DV, i'm sick of the black crush/clipping from HDR10, want to see everything perfectly and without problems on DV already

(Sorry for my bad english, i'm from spain XD)

That would be wonderful but it isn't going to happen. The tools were not ready for content to be authored for the UHD Blu-ray format, which is why we haven't seen titles already. So no chance of the metadata already being there unfortunately.

[Penton-Man]

Interest is gaining momentum at the grass roots level for learning how to create more Dolby Vision content and thusly build studio stables with it, for example, tonight’s workshop at the DV theater on Hollywood Boulevard sold out very quickly going to wait list.

The Dolby Vision master can now be produced by several color grading systems which have the DV analysis tools (i.e. the CMU software). These tools allow creation of both the Dolby Vision Cinema master and also the Dolby Vision home master. Below is a pic of creating the Dolby Vision master grade with the Resolve color grading system.

[nospam]

What is not fully clear to me is the HDR10 fallback metadata for DV encoded UHD Blu-rays. Is a HDR10 conversion done automatically as part of the DV workflow or does a content creator have the requirement or the ability to grade the HDR10 separately/manually?

How much bandwidth do the HDR and DV metadata consume? Could the selection of DTS-HD HR (lossy) DTS:X instead of Atmos be for saving bandwidth? Is it a cost savings? It just seems odd that DV and Atmos are married in the [Dolby] Cinemas but not so for the announced DV BDs. ??

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by nospam

What is not fully clear to me is the HDR10 fallback metadata for DV encoded UHD Blu-rays. Is a HDR10 conversion done automatically as part of the DV workflow or does a content creator have the requirement or the ability to grade the HDR10 separately/manually?

How much bandwidth do the HDR and DV metadata consume? Could the selection of DTS-HD HR (lossy) DTS:X instead of Atmos be for saving bandwidth? Is it a cost savings? It just seems odd that DV and Atmos are married in the [Dolby] Cinemas but not so for the announced DV BDs. ??

The workflows suggest that the HDR10 version is created as an offshoot of the DV grade but this is still a "manual" process so it won't be some poor relation...or at least it shouldn't be if the people doing the grading are on the ball. Besides which, much HDR10 content is already graded to 4000 nits precisely because it's being done on Dolby-equipped gear, but that's where its interconnectivity re: metadata to the DV version stops. The HDR10 layer will come with the usual static mastering metadata (primaries, white point, maximum light level, average light level) and won't be some sort of on-the-fly downgrade from the DV - indeed, it's the DV which is the on-the-fly reconstruction using the static HDR10 base layer + DV enhancement layer.

The metadata itself uses up a fraction of the bandwidth, it's simply data that instructs the target display and doesn't contain actual picture information. But the DV enhancement layer itself is said to take up an extra 25% of bitrate because it's a quarter of the resolution (1920x1080) of the main 3840x2160 base layer.

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by nospam

What is not fully clear to me is the HDR10 fallback metadata for DV encoded UHD Blu-rays. Is a HDR10 conversion done automatically as part of the DV workflow or does a content creator have the requirement or the ability to grade the HDR10 separately/manually?

How much bandwidth do the HDR and DV metadata consume? Could the selection of DTS-HD HR (lossy) DTS:X instead of Atmos be for saving bandwidth? Is it a cost savings? It just seems odd that DV and Atmos are married in the [Dolby] Cinemas but not so for the announced DV BDs. ??

Dolby Vision and Atmos are only "married" in Dolby Cinemas because they are Dolby Cinemas, which is the only place you can see theatrical DV. But you can also get Atmos outside of Dolby Cinemas. Plus, a film can have multiple soundtracks. Fate of the Furious was graded in DV and Atmos, but it also has an Auro 3D track and a DTS:X track at available theaters.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The workflows suggest that the HDR10 version is created as an offshoot of the DV grade but this is still a "manual" process so it won't be some poor relation...or at least it shouldn't be if the people doing the grading are on the ball. Besides which, much HDR10 content is already graded to 4000 nits precisely because it's being done on Dolby-equipped gear, but that's where its interconnectivity re: metadata to the DV version stops. The HDR10 layer will come with the usual static mastering metadata (primaries, white point, maximum light level, average light level) and won't be some sort of on-the-fly downgrade from the DV - indeed, it's the DV which is the on-the-fly reconstruction using the static HDR10 base layer + DV enhancement layer.

The metadata itself uses up a fraction of the bandwidth, it's simply data that instructs the target display and doesn't contain actual picture information. But the DV enhancement layer itself is said to take up an extra 25% of bitrate because it's a quarter of the resolution (1920x1080) of the main 3840x2160 base layer.

Geoff,

In fact, because Dolby Vision home graded material will only be able to be watched by a small percentage of the home 4K HDR TV and player owners initially, won't it behoove the graders to put their best foot forward on the base layer HDR10 grade as that's what 90% (pick a number you are comfortable with) of the home 4K HDR owners will be watching (at the earliest stages).

And I am sure the graders will be doing a top-notch effort on both grades, these are folks that take utmost pride in their work. So, : props: .

Just trying to take this from the technical dimension, into the TV owners living rooms and the home cinema watching experience.

(and if I said something poorly, please feel free to instruct me ...)

[nospam]

Thanks [mention]Geoff D[/mention] , I had not pieced together that there was a DV enhancement layer + metadata. I think that piece of the puzzle has helped my understanding immensely [as have the other comments].

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The workflows suggest that the HDR10 version is created as an offshoot of the DV grade but this is still a "manual" process....

Specifically,

After the master grade, the colorist uses the Dolby Vision analysis tools on the color grading system (be it Filmlight’s Baselight or whatever the facility has installed) to generate the Dolby Vision metadata that represents the creative decisions made by the colorist (working as a proxy for the filmmaker) in that master grade. The metadata is created by analyzing the grade on a scene by scene and/or frame by frame basis.

Then the Dolby Vision master and metadata are output from the color grading system into the Dolby CMU software running on a 3rd party PC. The CMU takes that video and metadata and in real time remaps the master grade to a generic HDR10 version. The colorists can then use the Dolby Vision tools (gain, gamma, lift, saturation, chroma weight offset, tone detail weight) in the color grading system to manually adjust (i.e. a trim pass) the metadata to help ensure that the artistic intent of the image is most accurately as possible (given the technology) transferred to the generic HDR10 version.

[Geoff D]

Ooooh, there you go folks, I thought if I'd dangle one out there I'd get a bite from a big fish!

So the HDR10 offshoot of a DV grade is something that's mapped out using the actual DV metadata with manual intervention if required, although this is done at the mastering stage and not the end-user playback stage, and one assumes the actual HDR10 layer itself still gets rendered out with static metadata seeing as dynamic HDR10 isn't a thing as far as UHD Blu is concerned.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Ooooh, there you go folks, I thought if I'd dangle one out there I'd get a bite from a big fish!....

You're a clever fisherman says this Mola.

[Pieter V]

According to Universal Pictures Germany; their strategy is to release select titles with Dolby Vision...

[legends of beyond]

Originally Posted by Pieter V

According to Universal Pictures Germany; their strategy is to release select titles with Dolby Vision...

Well... That's something.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Pieter V

According to Universal Pictures Germany; their strategy is to release select titles with Dolby Vision...

From what I've been told from someone that met with Universal to talk specifically about this, their plan (in the US at least) was to do 100% DV once it was available to use for UHD Blu. I would expect everything after Despicable Me to have DV unless it was produced before the tools and just not released yet.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

From what I've been told from someone that met with Universal to talk specifically about this, their plan (in the US at least) was to do 100% DV once it was available to use for UHD Blu. I would expect everything after Despicable Me to have DV unless it was produced before the tools and just not released yet.

So, they're going to upconvert their crappy old 8 bit HD masters to 12 bit DV UHD? Universal always takes the cheap way out.

[nospam]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

From what I've been told from someone that met with Universal to talk specifically about this, their plan (in the US at least) was to do 100% DV once it was available to use for UHD Blu. I would expect everything after Despicable Me to have DV unless it was produced before the tools and just not released yet.

That's great. Let's kick this DV door open for Disney to step on through! 👍

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

From what I've been told from someone that met with Universal to talk specifically about this, their plan (in the US at least) was to do 100% DV once it was available to use for UHD Blu. I would expect everything after Despicable Me to have DV unless it was produced before the tools and just not released yet.

And why not? Once you've shelled out for the DV licence it doesn't really make sense to keep it on the sidelines on a select basis, as you're not charged by title AFAIK.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

From what I've been told from someone that met with Universal to talk specifically about this, their plan (in the US at least) was to do 100% DV once it was available to use for UHD Blu. I would expect everything after Despicable Me to have DV unless it was produced before the tools and just not released yet.

Does this apply to strictly new releases I wonder or will it include all catalog releases too? Maybe catalogs will be hit and miss?

[MrMahn]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

So, they're going to upconvert their crappy old 8 bit HD masters to 12 bit DV UHD? Universal always takes the cheap way out.

Um, what? How did you get to that conclusion?