Do Isolation Tweaks really work?

[prerich]

Well, I'm now a fan of speaker isolation tweeks. I've looked at granite Plinths and such but the cost was tremendous. I went to a local stone store and saw some very solid and heavy limestone. I checked it out and said "Yes, these will do the trick!" I bought three for $27.00 each and had them cut to size for an additional $25.00. I placed my Snells on them and boy did the bass tighten up! I wanted to add cones to the limestone but I had a thought - further isolation - I added the cones to the Snells instead and last night I was treated to some of the tightest bass and one of the widest soundstages that I have ever heard anywhere from any speaker.

What are some of your experiences with speaker isolation - good or bad, Chime in folks !!!!

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by prerich

Well, I'm now a fan of speaker isolation tweeks. I've looked at granite Plinths and such but the cost was tremendous. I went to a local stone store and saw some very solid and heavy limestone. I checked it out and said "Yes, these will do the trick!" I bought three for $27.00 each and had them cut to size for an additional $25.00. I placed my Snells on them and boy did the bass tighten up! I wanted to add cones to the limestone but I had a thought - further isolation - I added the cones to the Snells instead and last night I was treated to some of the tightest bass and one of the widest soundstages that I have ever heard anywhere from any speaker.

What are some of your experiences with speaker isolation - good or bad, Chime in folks !!!!

Could you please explain for me what isolation tweaks are....I have never heard of them, but they sound interesting?

[prerich]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

Could you please explain for me what isolation tweaks are....I have never heard of them, but they sound interesting?

Sure, isolation tweeks are any tweek used to isolate your speakers or equipment from unwanted vibration. They can also be used to couple/decouple your speakers to/or from the floor (thats what spikes or rubber balls are for). Most of us are familiar with spikes, but there are other things - some of them crazy - that people use to "tighten" up the sound. What you want to hear is the music - not the box or enclosure - so many people use things to isolate the enclosure. I have used limestone combined with cones with my set up and it has definately worked. Some people may say it's snake oil - but I believe there is some relevance to some tweeks (some are snake oil ). I love the results of my home made tweeks (especially since my cones were rather inexpensive but very solid and do their job very well).

Mdabb wanted me to look into building special cabinates for my Snells - I was fearful of messing with the design but I am changing the wires and caps on my spare crossovers (wiring will be silver now) - that's not an isolation tweek, but what Mdabb wanted me to do is to add more internal bracing - that would be considered an isolation tweek - to keep the box or enclosure from coloring the sound. Mdabb, if you're out there I have the scematics to the crossovers and the boxes !!!!! Construction time!!!! !!!!

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by prerich

Sure, isolation tweeks are any tweek used to isolate your speakers or equipment from unwanted vibration. They can also be used to couple/decouple your speakers to/or from the floor (thats what spikes or rubber balls are for). Most of us are familiar with spikes, but there are other things - some of them crazy - that people use to "tighten" up the sound. What you want to hear is the music - not the box or enclosure - so many people use things to isolate the enclosure. I have used limestone combined with cones with my set up and it has definately worked. Some people may say it's snake oil - but I believe there is some relevance to some tweeks (some are snake oil ). I love the results of my home made tweeks (especially since my cones were rather inexpensive but very solid and do their job very well).

Mdabb wanted me to look into building special cabinates for my Snells - I was fearful of messing with the design but I am changing the wires and caps on my spare crossovers (wiring will be silver now) - that's not an isolation tweek, but what Mdabb wanted me to do is to add more internal bracing - that would be considered an isolation tweek - to keep the box or enclosure from coloring the sound. Mdabb, if you're out there I have the scematics to the crossovers and the boxes !!!!! Construction time!!!! !!!!

Thanks prerich, I never heard of this procedure, but it may be worth looking into!

[un4gvn94538]

thought about it for my turntable not speakers. but decided to wait until i upgrade the turntable. im still not sure if i would notice a diff.

also my towers are on carpet so im not sure how effective isolation cones or feet will be. they already have spikes though

[naturephoto1]

I have had very good success with all kinds of tweaks from Herbies'

http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/home.htm

These have included such things as his tenderfoot and iso cup footers for components. See an assortment:

http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/compfeet.htm

And some of his domes and big fat dots for speakers. See an assortment:

http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/spkrfeet.htm

The domes are not at present listed on the site it seems, but it would be worth a contact to Steve of Herbies to find out if these are still available; they probably are.

Rich

[mdabb]

Originally Posted by prerich

Mdabb wanted me to look into building special cabinates for my Snells - I was fearful of messing with the design but I am changing the wires and caps on my spare crossovers (wiring will be silver now) - that's not an isolation tweek, but what Mdabb wanted me to do is to add more internal bracing - that would be considered an isolation tweek - to keep the box or enclosure from coloring the sound. Mdabb, if you're out there I have the scematics to the crossovers and the boxes !!!!! Construction time!!!! !!!!

Hey,

All great news !!! Hope to see you take the Snells you love so very much to the next level so they can love you back. All worth it I believe.





I think some people need to understand, the more time you spend or the more you fall in love with audio it becomes something special to you and to many people. The same way and reason some people are passionate about cars.

A little tweak here, a little tweak there, it's all done to try and make the best out of what we got. Fine tuning if you will. Sometimes things will work for you and sometimes they won't. A little trial and error never hurt anyone and the only way you are personally gonna know is to try it for yourself. Sure It's good and all to talk it out with your peers, but not everyone's situation's are the same.

Anyhow, Speaker isolation I believe.......... is a good thing. When was the last time you seen a speaker come without spikes and/or a plinth. You want to decouple the speaker from the floor and to stop the transfer of energy. Think of it as removing pollution.

In general certain types of wood are supposed to have better absorption properties than others and are used for isolation tweaks. Great musical instruments are also made from certain woods so why not speakers or isolation tweaks. Many of these products are available.

Many also believe isolating a CD, DVD, or BDP by using isolation tweaks like spikes, cones, wood blocks or things called clouds help best when they are subjected to vibration. Obviously by loud volume and subwoofers. Everything resonants at a certain frequency.

Some may have a use for these products and some don't. To each their own, but you're gonna need first hand experience to know.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by mdabb

Hey,

All great news !!! Hope to see you take the Snells you love so very much to the next level so they can love you back. All worth it I believe.





I think some people need to understand, the more time you spend or the more you fall in love with audio it becomes something special to you and to many people. The same way and reason some people are passionate about cars.

A little tweak here, a little tweak there, it's all done to try and make the best out of what we got. Fine tuning if you will. Sometimes things will work for you and sometimes they won't. A little trial and error never hurt anyone and the only way you are personally gonna know is to try it for yourself. Sure It's good and all to talk it out with your peers, but not everyone's situation's are the same.

Anyhow, Speaker isolation I believe.......... is a good thing. When was the last time you seen a speaker come without spikes and/or a plinth. You want to decouple the speaker from the floor and to stop the transfer of energy. Think of it as removing pollution.

In general certain types of wood are supposed to have better absorption properties than others and are used for isolation tweaks. Great musical instruments are also made from certain woods so why not speakers or isolation tweaks. Many of these products are available.

Many also believe isolating a CD, DVD, or BDP by using isolation tweaks like spikes, cones, wood blocks or things called clouds help best when they are subjected to vibration. Obviously by loud volume and subwoofers. Everything resonants at a certain frequency.

Some may have a use for these products and some don't. To each their own, but you're gonna need first hand experience to know.

+1 post!!!

[ozzman]

Ive read this thread and iam starting to think that this might be something i would be interested in.
Improving my system without crazy cost.

So have we come to a conclusion that tweeks really work?

[Go Blue]

Would this include Gramma Isolation Risers?

[jomari]

Originally Posted by Schultzy

Would this include Gramma Isolation Risers?

in a way yes. but id call it more to be on the acoustics side instead of isolation. isolation is primarily for the components interaction with their immediate relation with what they're on so to speak - shelves, tables et al. acoustics would provide not only isolation to what they're standing on, but also helps with regards to the room interaction.

the problem with certain tweaks is that there is a vast market out there of products that are scientifically proven to work, and others are snake oil and just want a cut of your cake so to speak.

a number of tweaks ive come across in the industry are...

coin tweak - putting coins on top of your speakers. consider the top of your speakers as a quadrant, placing a quarter coin on the first quadrant, and the fourth quadrant , with the numbers going clockwise respectively. a variance would be adding another coin in the middle of the quadrant line, closer to the speakers front... this apparently improves the imaging as well as the clarity of the speakers...

ping pong tweak - dangling a pingpong in front of a HT driver, or the tweeter in some variations, 'improves' the higher frequencies as well as gives you a wider sweet spot due to the dispersion.

i am tho a firm believer of decoupling your front stage with auralex's products. they are probably the best 40 clams ive purchased, and have been endorsing it to a couple of my colleagues. again, this is more on acoustics instead of isolation imo.

about isolation tweaks? well, that part i havent dove into that much, as i dont have my turntables here in the states. if i did, id be basting in 2 channel listening instead.

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by jomari

in a way yes. but id call it more to be on the acoustics side instead of isolation. isolation is primarily for the components interaction with their immediate relation with what they're on so to speak - shelves, tables et al. acoustics would provide not only isolation to what they're standing on, but also helps with regards to the room interaction.

the problem with certain tweaks is that there is a vast market out there of products that are scientifically proven to work, and others are snake oil and just want a cut of your cake so to speak.

a number of tweaks ive come across in the industry are...

coin tweak - putting coins on top of your speakers. consider the top of your speakers as a quadrant, placing a quarter coin on the first quadrant, and the fourth quadrant , with the numbers going clockwise respectively. a variance would be adding another coin in the middle of the quadrant line, closer to the speakers front... this apparently improves the imaging as well as the clarity of the speakers...

ping pong tweak - dangling a pingpong in front of a HT driver, or the tweeter in some variations, 'improves' the higher frequencies as well as gives you a wider sweet spot due to the dispersion.

i am tho a firm believer of decoupling your front stage with auralex's products. they are probably the best 40 clams ive purchased, and have been endorsing it to a couple of my colleagues. again, this is more on acoustics instead of isolation imo.

about isolation tweaks? well, that part i havent dove into that much, as i dont have my turntables here in the states. if i did, id be basting in 2 channel listening instead.

So, you use risers then? where do you use them?

[jomari]

Originally Posted by Schultzy

So, you use risers then? where do you use them?

i dont use 'risers', i use isolation pads from my front stage, which has decoupled my LCR and definitely showed signs of improvement. the gramma isolation risers i cant really comment that much on. simply because i dont use them in my setup.

im assuming you're planning on getting them, and would rather suggest on focusing on buildin/buying better bass traps, and adding diffusors instead.

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by jomari

i dont use 'risers', i use isolation pads from my front stage, which has decoupled my LCR and definitely showed signs of improvement. the gramma isolation risers i cant really comment that much on. simply because i dont use them in my setup.

im assuming you're planning on getting them, and would rather suggest on focusing on buildin/buying better bass traps, and adding diffusors instead.

I was given a riser, but haven't tried it out yet. I was planning on testing it under my sub.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by jomari

i dont use 'risers', i use isolation pads from my front stage, which has decoupled my LCR and definitely showed signs of improvement. the gramma isolation risers i cant really comment that much on. simply because i dont use them in my setup.

im assuming you're planning on getting them, and would rather suggest on focusing on buildin/buying better bass traps, and adding diffusors instead.

Are you using the Mopads?!!! Those look great and they provide a sometimes necessary tilt to the speakers!

[billt928]

I have a few things left over. I used them with my polk system

info from the Mfg. and a link on where I bought them http://www.sweetwater.com/c671--Studio_Isolation_Tools

Clean up the low end!
Auralex's SubDude HD is designed to bring the same level of acoustic isolation to your home theater subwoofer that the popular SubDude has done for your studio sub. When your subwoofer is placed on a hard surface, it vibrates. These vibrations can cause the sound to be unfocused and "flabby," especially the bass frequencies a subwoofer produces. SubDude HD is an acoustically treated platform covered in a cleanable black velour that matches any room setting. Tighten up the low end in your home studio with the SubDude HD.

Auralex SubDude HD Features:

• 15" x 15" x 2.5" platform
• Wrapped with a cleanable black velour to fit any room setting
• Prevents sound from transmitting through your subwoofer to surrounding surfaces
• Improves acoustics by eliminating vibrations

De-couple your speakers!
Auralex's SpeakerDude HD isolation pads are designed to bring the same level of acoustic isolation to your home speakers that the popular MoPads have for your studio monitors. When your speakers are placed on a hard surface, they vibrate. These vibrations can cause the sound to be unfocused and "flabby." The SpeakerDude HD package consists of a pair of acoustic foam pads with flippable angled pads to fine-tune the positioning. Not just for speakers, you can decouple virtually any electronic device such as laptops, DVD players, or turntables from the surface they rest on with SpeakerDude HD pads.

Auralex SpeakerDude HD Speaker Isolation Pads Features:

• Enough pads for two speakers
• +/- 4 and 8 degree angle adjustments
• Decouples speakers and other electronic devices from resting surface
• Improves acoustics by eliminating vibrations

Upgrade Your Studio Monitors for LESS Than $40!
Auralex makes a range of premium-quality acoustical products to optimize any room for great sound. Whether you seek to get the most out of your home or project studio, school or church rehearsal space, or pro facility, Sweetwater has the Auralex products you need to get the best results. Auralex offers absorption, diffusion, and isolation product packages to suit your room, no matter how big or small — and the results are fantastic. In fact, many of our Sales Engineers here at Sweetwater use Auralex in their own studios!

Once you've bought the best gear and acoustically treated your room with Auralex acoustics, what's left? How about improving the accuracy of your monitors with a set of the Auralex MoPADs! If you rely on your studio monitors for accuracy, the Auralex MoPADs from Auralex are for you!

Auralex MoPAD Features at a Glance:

• Acoustically isolate your monitors from their base
• Adjustable angles for personalized installation
• For use with other studio equipment

Acoustically Isolate Your Studio Monitors
With acoustic treatment from Auralex, you can design your studio to be not only acoustically correct, but also constructed to be airtight and very, very solid. Everything in your studio that vibrates contributes artifacts to your sound, so why would you let your monitors acoustically couple to a shelf, a rack, or the meter bridge of your mixing board (doing so automatically degrades the accuracy of what you're hearing)? And once your monitors cause whatever they're resting on to vibrate, everything else that's in physical contact with your monitors also starts to vibrate.

This is where the Auralex MoPADs come in. Auralex MoPADs provide sonic isolation between your monitors and whatever your monitors are resting on, Auralex MoPADs INSTANTLY improve the accuracy of your entire monitoring system.

Personalized Installation
The Auralex MoPAD wedge adjusters allow you to tilt the studio monitor (or any item to be decoupled/isolated) to listening angles of 4, 8, -4, and -8 degrees. Leaving the Auralex MoPAD wedge in place allows the monitor to be set flat - 0 degrees.

MoPAD Your Entire Studio!
Auralex MoPADs have unlimited other uses, such as isolating delicate electronics from vibration. The use of Auralex MoPADs under CD Burners, Laptops, Turntables, etc. is good, too, providing Auralex MoPAD doesn't restrict air flow. Auralex MoPADs are affordable, easy to implement, and really effective at decoupling your monitors - or ANYTHING in your studio - from your room and all its contents.


Auralex MoPAD Features:

• Acoustic isolation for your studio monitors and more
• Adjustable angles of 0, 4, 8, -4 and -8 degrees
• Color: Charcoal
• Each package contains (4) MoPADs - enough for 2 monitors
• Dimensions: 12" long x 4" wide
• Weight Limitations: 100lbs.

These are the panels I have on my walls

Beautiful and Effective Acoustical Treatment for Your Room!
The Auralex ELiTE B24 Pro Panel lets you add a touch of class while providing very effective reduction of slap and flutter echo. The 1"-thick, 2'x4' ELiTE B24 Pro Panel is a fabric-wrapped fiberglass panel that's built specifically for studio, rehearsal, and broadcast environments, while its attractive looks make it a great aesthetic addition to any room. This bevel-edged Class A panel has an 0.80 noise coefficient, making it as effective at taming your room as it is beautiful. If you want great sound absorption as well as classy looks, put an Auralex ELiTE B24 Pro Panel in your studio!

Auralex ELiTE B24 Pro Panel Decorative 2'x4' Sound-absorption Panel Features:

• 0.80 noise reduction coefficient
• Color: Obsidian
• Dimensions: 2'x4'x1"
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• Quantity: One

[Halcro 1]

I use the Black Diamond Racing cones and pucks for My CD , Amp And Pre Amp and I like the alot I aldo have a Dedicated Audio Acrylic shelf for the CD Player , and I love em .. The speaker deal sounds interesting .....I like to get a BDR shelf but they are kind of pricey even on Audiogon , but they work very good , A friend of mine has one and It really works wonders , I guess thats why they sell ASAP on AG

[prerich]

Check out the prices on granite speaker platforms http://www.oregondv.com/Granite_Speaker_Stands.htm and these are cheap compaired to others I've seen. It would be more cost effective to buy the stone, cones, and DIY.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by prerich

Check out the prices on granite speaker platforms http://www.oregondv.com/Granite_Speaker_Stands.htm and these are cheap compaired to others I've seen. It would be more cost effective to buy the stone, cones, and DIY.

I really question using granite alone. It has ringing problems and if it is not the right thickness there can be problems.

Though they do not list them for this purpose, Adona Corporation makes their platforms out of a specific thickness of granite, with special adhesive that is adhered to a special MDF material. All the materials null each other out to supposedly result in no sonic signature. They use these platforms in their rack systems. Here is the link to the platforms and a picture:

http://www.adonacorporation.com/platform.html



The feet in the picture are not included in the platform cost.

Rich

[prerich]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

I really question using granite alone. It has ringing problems and if it is not the right thickness there can be problems.

Though they do not list them for this purpose, Adona Corporation makes their platforms out of a specific thickness of granite, with special adhesive that is adhered to a special MDF material. All the materials null each other out to supposedly result in no sonic signature. They use these platforms in their rack systems. Here is the link to the platforms and a picture:

http://www.adonacorporation.com/platform.html



The feet in the picture are not included in the platform cost.

Rich

You are correct sir. That's why I went with limestone - granite does have a tendency to ring. I hear nothing from the limestone bases that I have (well I only hear the improvements in the speakers). I moved my speakers out just a bit further and I think I've got it where I want it now (if I had went AN-E, the speaker would work best corner loaded). I'm a pretty happy camper....for now !!!