LG's new OLED TVs

[vinnie97]

Can't fault you for wanting a taste to see what the commotion is all about. Otherwise you will certainly have that nagging feeling of what might have been. I'm just relying upon some opinions from some fairly reliable folks (i.e. Ken Ross) who have seen demos and have come away unimpressed. And yes, I concur about Robert...his reputation precedes him. It's a shame the 77" (in his store no less) is getting unceremoniously picked apart at another forum as we speak. I can just hear those who hang onto this reviewer's every word..."I'm not buying in until 2016 when they've maybe fixed these noise issues!" On that note, it would behoove LG to find some competent coders to fix their long-broken CMS...

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by nirvanayoda

I'd like at least some mild version of HDR so that low bandwidth streaming options (like Netflix, etc.) will look much better. I'm not as worried about HDR from UHD Blu-ray because a UHD Blu-ray will look gorgeous on the display regardless of whether or not it's HDR (unless the lack of HDR would cause the display to ignore the wider color gamut that the OLED can display).

In any event, I'm on VE's list for the 65EG9600 and am excited to hand my credit card number over in a few weeks provided the answer on HDR is favorable and that the HDMI ports are full 18 Gbps with HDCP 2.2, which they look to be at this point. As an aside, Robert seems like a fantastic guy to deal with based on my conversations with him and the fact that he's incredibly active in the community (VE Shootout, this thread, etc.).

At LG's press conference the president of Netflix was invited on the stage and said that Netflix will be the first provider with HDR content and they choose LG's OLED to be their partner. I also confirmed HDR would be available on the 2015 OLED line-up and they are reported to be 10% brighter, but as you know I asked for reconfirmation after reading HDTVtest's article.

Hopefully I'll get confirmation soon.

-Robert

Originally Posted by vinnie97

Can't fault you for wanting a taste to see what the commotion is all about. Otherwise you will certainly have that nagging feeling of what might have been. I'm just relying upon some opinions from some fairly reliable folks (i.e. Ken Ross) who have seen demos and have come away unimpressed. And yes, I concur about Robert...his reputation precedes him. It's a shame the 77" (in his store no less) is getting unceremoniously picked apart at another forum as we speak. I can just hear those who hang onto this reviewer's every word..."I'm not buying in until 2016 when they've maybe fixed these noise issues!" On that note, it would behoove LG to find some competent coders to fix their long-broken CMS...

Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

At LG's press conference the president of Netflix was invited on the stage and said that Netflix will be the first provider with HDR content and they choose LG's OLED to be their partner. I also confirmed HDR would be available on the 2015 OLED line-up and they are reported to be 10% brighter, but as you know I asked for reconfirmation after reading HDTVtest's article.

Hopefully I'll get confirmation soon.

-Robert

So far, all the reports I have read indicate the LG 4K OLED HDR models will be introduced at IFA Berlin in September 2015.

A prototype was exhibited at CES 2015. The claim was an increase of 60% from 500 up to 800 ( plus or minus 10%) nits.

http://www.cnet.com/news/lgs-oled-hd...ines-brighter/

See the Forbes link at the bottom this post: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=134

The only reason I can think of that would make them accelerate the intro of the HDR model would be to have it available before Netflix begins streaming HDR.

[dnlfrncs]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

HDR models will not be available until 3rd quarter 2015 according to LG. They are waiting for the UHD Alliance to set a standard. There has also been talk about an OLED Alliance, but that will probably be LG and other manufacturers, including Sony and Panasonic which are in talks to use the LG OLED panels in the future.

Thank you

My next question is directed at Mr. Zohn, at this stage, is the new anti reflective coating on the 55eg9600 noticeably better then last years models?

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by nirvanayoda

Several sources, including Flatpanelshd.com and LG themselves in the press conference mentioned by Robert above, have indicated that the EG and EF true 2015 models would receive a firmware update to handle HDR. It's only within the past week that information purporting to discredit the prior promises have come out. Let's hope that the original reporting was correct.

I agree. I would like to see a confirmation that current 2015 models can be firmware updated to deal with HDR. This might be difficult at this stage, because there is no clear definition of what HDR is. Even Netflix has said that they are prepared to deliver both DV and an as yet undefined HDR format, presumably to be determined by the UHD Alliance. (LG is a member)

The latest info from the LG newsroom doesn't resolve this issue.

http://lgdnewsroom.com/products-solutions/tv/5508

http://lgdnewsroom.com/products-solutions/tv/5575

EDIT: " He said LGD had developed new materials for its WRGB OLED displays that allow higher efficiency, namely better light output from the same amount of power. The result is an increase in peak light output of highlights from about 500 nits (a measure of brightness) using the current technology to 800, an increase of 60 percent"

http://www.cnet.com/news/lgs-oled-hd...ines-brighter/

New materials implies that the 500 nit LG OLED panels will not be capable of HDR through a firmware update.

What Larsen was referring to here is most likely the new 800 nit panel displays when they are introduced if an HDR standard is not decided on by rollout date:

"LG is still not 100% sure how HDR will be implemented in its OLED TVs as PQ gamma is still a very recent development. As with all other light sources, longevity goes down as brightness goes up on an OLED panel, which is obviously something that must also be taken into account. LG tells us that the HDR function on the new 4K OLED TVs will be added through a software update once they have decided exactly how to approach it". (From the Flatpanel review referred to in prior posts)

[vinnie97]

The UHD alliance should defer to LG since they have the best display tech on the condition that they fix their longstanding CMS and grayscale software processing issues. Win win!

[Blove23]

That is why LG uses a 4 Color Pixel technology. That is the key issue with all the other companies because they do not know how to preserve the blue pixel. Why do you think LG was the first company to introduce a 55 inch OLED and also the 1stones with a 4K OLED. They know how to preserve the blue pixel.

[vinnie97]

I could've sworn they co-launched at 55" with Samsung. Doesn't matter, though, they're the only ones still in the game (but for how long?...the $25k 77" is taking a critical beating).

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

At LG's press conference the president of Netflix was invited on the stage and said that Netflix will be the first provider with HDR content and they choose LG's OLED to be their partner. I also confirmed HDR would be available on the 2015 OLED line-up and they are reported to be 10% brighter, but as you know I asked for reconfirmation after reading HDTVtest's article.

Hopefully I'll get confirmation soon.

-Robert

I would be interested in hearing what LG has to say about 800 nit panel life. Presumably, they are still testing the new panels. The 30,000 hour half life would be for the 500 nit panels currently used on 2nd gen displays, right?

The CES LG HDR demo was manually toggled between HDR and non HDR on what was presumably HDR content. In production models the excursion from 500 to 800 nits would most likely be initiated by metadata from the content rather than manually toggled. If so, the panel would only be at 800 nits when HDR content is present.

Perhaps you could ask your LG rep if the new 800 nit displays will have a Dolby Vision decoder. While Dolby is talking 4000 to 10000 nits for ideal HDR, DV is scalable to the display capability and LG even features a DV promo in its LG Newsroom release:

http://lgdnewsroom.com/products-solutions/tv/5508 Also see DV, how it works: http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...by-vision.html

Also, regarding the 400 hour break in for bulb stabilization; is there any restriction on what content is watched during the stabilization period?

[Robert Zohn]

No restriction on what you can watch for the first 400 hours, but I do recommend leaving the TV on for about 2 weeks 24/7.

You can watch any content you like and then switch to any known content that is full screen motion video or the break-in slides. Any possible image retention is easily fixed if you do not power off; just switch to the slides or full screen normal video.

The break-in does period does not mean that the TV is protected from image retention or burn-in, but is is less likely to be harmed after a proper break-in.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

No restriction on what you can watch for the first 400 hours, but I do recommend leaving the TV on for about 2 weeks 24/7.

You can watch any content you like and then switch to any known content that is full screen motion video or the break-in slides. Any possible image retention is easily fixed if you do not power off; just switch to the slides or full screen normal video.

The break-in does period does not mean that the TV is protected from image retention or burn-in, but is is less likely to be harmed after a proper break-in.

-Robert

Thanks. In an earlier post you mentioned that you hoped to be the first to test the 55EG9600. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=174

Well it seems the race is on. Cleveland Plasma started an owner's thread for it on AVS Forum. I'll not include the link here, but I'm sure you can find it. I'm not sure if they are an authorized dealer or not. They didn't show up on the authorized dealer list on the LG web site. I think they are selling it for $4,900 plus $100 to ship. They plan to run a hands on test in two weeks.

https://clevelandplasma.com/store/ol...s/lg_55eg9600_

[Robert Zohn]

Ray, ^ Time will tell and it's won't be far from now. My sample is breaking in at my home so we're enjoying this stunning TV and then switching to the break-in slides. It's going to be difficult to give this one up as we are loving this gorgeous 4K OLED TV.

My two week break-in will be completed on March 26th, but if needed we could calibrate and evaluate the panel earlier so I keep my promise. Although, I like doing a thorough break-in so the panel is stabilized before calibrating or evaluating.

We have a launch special deal for $4,999 and a 10% VE store credit plus free shipping. http://www.65ef9500.com/eg9600-specs.html

I assume CP must be authorized as LG is very tightly restricting access to the 4K OLED line and they only brought in a very very limited supply so any dealer who has even one is very privileged. To date only a select few factory direct authorized dealers received the EG9600 series.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Ray, ^ Time will tell and it's won't be far from now. My sample is breaking in at my home so we're enjoying this stunning TV and then switching to the break-in slides. It's going to be difficult to give this one up as we are loving this gorgeous 4K OLED TV.

My two week break-in will be completed on March 26th, but if needed we could calibrate and evaluate the panel earlier so I keep my promise. Although, I like doing a thorough break-in so the panel is stabilized before calibrating or evaluating.

We have a launch special deal for $4,999 and a 10% VE store credit plus free shipping. http://www.65ef9500.com/eg9600-specs.html

I assume CP must be authorized as LG is very tightly restricting access to the 4K OLED line and they only brought in a very very limited supply so any dealer who has even one is very privileged. To date only a select few factory direct authorized dealers received the EG9600 series.

-Robert

I think you are several days ahead of CP on break in. I wouldn't rush it. Better to be sure the display is stable. Who will be doing the hands on review and will you post it on your web site? CP will be posting theirs on the other forum.

I think the authorized dealer issue lies more with a failure to update data on the LG web site. For example, if I plug in Scarsdale, NY, most of the Best Buys in your area are listed, but you aren't for the 55EG9600. Maybe you should get on them about that.

[Robert Zohn]

Thanks I called my LG contact about that and expect it to be fixed very soon. We are properly listed for all other LG products on LG's dealer locator.

Not sure who will do the review. I'll ask Kevin Miller, David Mackenzie and Mark Henninger.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Thanks I called my LG contact about that and expect it to be fixed very soon. We are properly listed for all other LG products on LG's dealer locator.

Not sure who will do the review. I'll ask Kevin Miller, David Mackenzie and Mark Henninger.

-Robert

Now, I'm starting to get excited! By the way, I'm about half way through the 77EG9700 thread on that other forum with Henninger's review. Was that line down the middle a panel flaw? Did LG replace it? What's the latest on the noise issue? Has it been determined to be in the content or an issue with the processor?

[Robert Zohn]

The vertical line gets fainter as the panel breaks-in. It takes about 400 hrs to be all but gone. I have not run the 4K OLEDs any longer to know if they completely go away, but several of our clients report the vertical lines have completely disappeared. The vertical line is only seen at about 10% luminance and with a full field solid grey pattern.

I don't see the noise so I can't comment on what they are seeing. But David Mackenzie, who I hold a lot of respect for says it's not in the content. This has been a hotly debated issue.

-Robert

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

The vertical line gets fainter as the panel breaks-in. It takes about 400 hrs to be all but gone. I have not run the 4K OLEDs any longer to know if they completely go away, but several of our clients report the vertical lines have completely disappeared. The vertical line is only seen at about 10% luminance and with a full field solid grey pattern.

I don't see the noise so I can't comment on what they are seeing. But David Mackenzie, who I hold a lot of respect for says it's not in the content. This has been a hotly debated issue.

-Robert

This is a disturbing post along with other's from today First the Oled has Burn in or is & can have burn in Next we have vertical lines! Not sure what to think about these Robert & This is me not being a Mod! Yes they are way over priced from what I have seen but I spent 4 grand on my LCD

[Robert Zohn]

Brent, Other than what I read about in 2014 on one 55EA9800 at Harrow's in London that was left on with the menu displayed for days I have not seen or heard of any OLED with burn-in. But, OLED, like plasma displays are subject to image retention and burn-in. A proper break-in helps prevent burn in for OLED. Also with normal use burn in is not any more of an issue than it is with a plasma display.

The vertical line is an issue, but goes away or is so greatly minimized after break-in so I also don't see this as a deal breaker.

It almost never shows up on any content. When a full field of dark grey you can see the vertical line, but again it goes away or at worst it is very faint and not an issue with any content after the normal break-in.

-Robert

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Brent, Other than what I read about in 2014 on one 55EA9800 at Harrow's in London that was left on with the menu displayed for days I have not seen or heard of any OLED with burn-in. But, OLED, like plasma displays are subject to image retention and burn-in. A proper break-in helps prevent burn in for OLED. Also with normal use burn in is not any more of an issue than it is with a plasma display.

The vertical line is an issue, but goes away or is so greatly minimized after break-in so I also don't see this as a deal breaker.

It almost never shows up on any content. When a full field of dark grey you can see the vertical line, but again it goes away or at worst it is very faint and not an issue with any content after the normal break-in.

-Robert

I am willing to bet here that my 3 LCD chip Projector has as good of an Image as an Oled TV. Also my LCD TV is so close to the Oled that it tells me don't do it. Again Just my opinion Robert just because the Human eye can only see so much difference!

[Robert Zohn]

Brent, I wish you lived close to us or could visit my showroom to see for yourself how OLED compares the best LCD TV. I have the 55", 65" and 77" OLED TVs on display and all of the flagship LCD/LED 4K TVs all lined up in one room.

Novices and all levels of pros and a/v enthusiasts agree that OLED is far superior to the very best LCD/LED displays. If you have the time please stop by a Best Buy store as most have the 55EC9300 2014 1080p OLED on display.

LCD/LED TV look great in high ambient light, but once the room gets dark OLED looks significantly better than the best full array LCD/LED display.

-Robert