LG's new OLED TVs

[Robert Zohn]

From what I'm told all HDR standards can be decoded and mapped to LG's EG9600 and EF9500. Once the specs and products come out we should see LG engineers write the code and develop firmware updates for other HDR schemes.

More good news for LG.... Our last allotment of EF9500s are performing beautifully. Very very little to no yellow or vignetting. These are an excellent example of how LG's 4K Flat OLED can deliver world class picture quality.

When you see an accurate demo of the EG9600 or EF9500 with 4K content graded with the new standards that now include HDR, WCG with PQ digital gamma you will clearly see the advantages of the stunning image that looks significantly different than all other TVs. If I did not know better I would think the new 4K, HDR standards were designed to exploit the benefits of pure black that only OLED can produce.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

From what I'm told all HDR standards can be decoded and mapped to LG's EG9600 and EF9500. Once the specs and products come out we should see LG engineers write the code and develop firmware updates for other HDR schemes.

More good news for LG.... Our last allotment of EF9500s are performing beautifully. Very very little to no yellow or vignetting. These are an excellent example of how LG's 4K Flat OLED can deliver world class picture quality.

When you see an accurate demo of the EG9600 or EF9500 with 4K content graded with the new standards that now include HDR, WCG with PQ digital gamma you will clearly see the advantages of the stunning image that looks significantly different than all other TVs. If I did not know better I would think the new 4K, HDR standards were designed to exploit the benefits of pure black that only OLED can produce.

-Robert

I am still concerned that the UHD Alliance will treat the 800 nit OLEDs for 2016 as HDR "lite" when they finally roll out their standards at CES 2016.

[Robert Zohn]

If what I am told is correct, LG plans on mapping any HDR protocol to their contrast ratio capability. So if this works out even the current 400nits 4K OLED TV will work beautifully with HDR10, Dolby Vision and other HDR schemes.

I can tell you Amazon's HDR content and the 4K HDR content LG gave me for store demo looks stunning on our store demo EF9500 and EG9600. When you see HDR with pure black and 400 nits peak brightness the image shows off the specular highlights beautifully and you can enjoy it in low ambient light conditions. When I watch HDR on other TVs in low ambient light the specular highlights are too bright for my eyes.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

If what I am told is correct, LG plans on mapping any HDR protocol to their contrast ratio capability. So if this works out even the current 400nits 4K OLED TV will work beautifully with HDR10, Dolby Vision and other HDR schemes.

I can tell you Amazon's HDR content and the 4K HDR content LG gave me for store demo looks stunning on our store demo EF9500 and EG9600. When you see HDR with pure black and 400 nits peak brightness the image shows off the specular highlights beautifully and you can enjoy it in low ambient light conditions. When I watch HDR on other TVs in low ambient light the specular highlights are too bright for my eyes.

-Robert

Care to name names? Samsung SUHD on the list?

Bot more to my point about UHD Certification:

Take a look at the poster in this flatpanels article; specifically the UHD Certification pyramid at the bottom.

“Not qualified Low Quality, Low price UHD: Pseudo 4K Panel (RGBW)”

The fact that they included RGBW should be troublesome, don’t you think?

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1441783679

For Advanced Premium Certification (top of the pyramid) High Dynamic Range (HDR) Wide Color (DCI-P3) Color Accuracy (delta E3.1) Best 4K Video Processing. So, will the 87.7% of DCI-P3 eliminate the LG65EF9500 from Advanced Premium Certification by the UHD Alliance? Will they make the cut on Best 4K Video Processing?

http://www.cnet.com/products/lg-ef9500/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/285018757/...-report#scribd

[Robert Zohn]

Thanks Ray for bringing this up.

Regarding your first point about which brands of TVs do not perform up to the dynamic contrast ratio of the new Flat 4K OLED display it's all brands and models. We have the 65EF9500 on our TV Shootout wall, butt next to Panasonic's CX850U, Samsung's JS9500 and Sony's X940C.

OLED looks significantly different. Partly because of the emissive technology that more accurately renders the image close to its source and how the actual scene looks. 8.3 million individual light bulbs vs. the bright back-light, filters, polarizers and Liquid crystal doors that can't close completely to block the bright back-light to the elimination of flash-lighting, light leakage and higher MLL. If you owned one of the good PDPs, you get spoiled on the natural look and lower MLL that delivers image accuracy that only emissive display can produce.

With all that said I very much like some of the high-end back-lit, full array locally dimmed TVs, and for many folks that is the very best choice. Larger screen sizes, lower costs and likely longer lifespan are some advantages for making the decision to buy an LCD/LED over today's OLED TV.

It's true that LG color accuracy is not as good as some Samsung and Sony TVs, but the difference is small and I don't think most could see the very slight difference. Also most WCG capable TVs can't hit a much higher % of DCI that the new 4K OLED displays.

I'm not a fan of RGBW, or edge lit panels and they do not compete with the higher-end full array locally dimmed back-lit displays. So to me we should be comparing the new high-end back-lit flagship models to LG's new flagship emissive OLED TVs. And when you do that novices and professionals almost always agree OLED wins and OLED wins by a big margin.

Further, the new TV system of 4K, HDR, WCG and PQ digital gamma are a home run for 4K HDR OLED TVs as they exploit all of the advantages of these new standards.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Thanks Ray for bringing this up.

Regarding your first point about which brands of TVs do not perform up to the dynamic contrast ratio of the new Flat 4K OLED display it's all brands and models. We have the 65EF9500 on our TV Shootout wall, butt next to Panasonic's CX850U, Samsung's JS9500 and Sony's X940C.

OLED looks significantly different. Partly because of the emissive technology that more accurately renders the image close to its source and how the actual scene looks. 8.3 million individual light bulbs vs. the bright back-light, filters, polarizers and Liquid crystal doors that can't close completely to block the bright back-light to the elimination of flash-lighting, light leakage and higher MLL. If you owned one of the good PDPs, you get spoiled on the natural look and lower MLL that delivers image accuracy that only emissive display can produce.

With all that said I very much like some of the high-end back-lit, full array locally dimmed TVs, and for many folks that is the very best choice. Larger screen sizes, lower costs and likely longer lifespan are some advantages for making the decision to buy an LCD/LED over today's OLED TV.

It's true that LG color accuracy is not as good as some Samsung and Sony TVs, but the difference is small and I don't think most could see the very slight difference. Also most WCG capable TVs can't hit a much higher % of DCI that the new 4K OLED displays.

I'm not a fan of RGBW, or edge lit panels and they do not compete with the higher-end full array locally dimmed back-lit displays. So to me we should be comparing the new high-end back-lit flagship models to LG's new flagship emissive OLED TVs. And when you do that novices and professionals almost always agree OLED wins and OLED wins by a big margin.

Further, the new TV system of 4K, HDR, WCG and PQ digital gamma are a home run for 4K HDR OLED TVs as they exploit all of the advantages of these new standards.

-Robert

Want to take another stab at answering my question? Regarding the possibility that the LG OLEDs might not get the coveted UHD Alliance Advanced Premium Certification, or simply not qualify for UHD Alliance Certification

It would be embarrassing if, after the high end luxury market Kaleidescape showed its new UHD Strato at CEDIA playing on a LG65EF9500, the LG display is ignored by the UHD Alliance.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=500

Guess I'll have to wait for CES 2016 to find out.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Want to take another stab at answering my question? Regarding the possibility that the LG OLEDs might not get the coveted UHD Alliance Advanced Premium Certification, or simply not qualify for UHD Alliance Certification

It would be embarrassing if, after the high end luxury market Kaleidescape showed its new UHD Strato at CEDIA playing on a LG65EF9500, the LG display is ignored by the UHD Alliance.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=500

Guess I'll have to wait for CES 2016 to find out.

Last I checked.

LG wasn't a member of the "THX for video" club.

If they still aren't. Moot point about the cert.

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Want to take another stab at answering my question? Regarding the possibility that the LG OLEDs might not get the coveted UHD Alliance Advanced Premium Certification, or simply not qualify for UHD Alliance Certification

It would be embarrassing if, after the high end luxury market Kaleidescape showed its new UHD Strato at CEDIA playing on a LG65EF9500, the LG display is ignored by the UHD Alliance.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=500

Guess I'll have to wait for CES 2016 to find out.

Ray, I thoroughly answered your questions and explained the facts with accurate technical details, except for the questions about the UHD Alliance's certification of LG's new 4K OLED TV as no one knows at this time any of the TVs that will be UHD Alliance certified. It's difficult to speculate on how the UHD Alliance will determine which TVs qualify and which do not. But I am confident that if they look at each 4K HDR TV with HDR/WCG content LG's EF9500 series will surely be included.

And just for clarification, LG's 4K OLED does not use RGBW, RGBW is only used on a few low end LCD TVs. OLED is what we call "Color by White" aka WRGB that was invented by Eastman Kodak and LG purchased the rights to the technology and all related patents, which is why LG is the sole manufacturer of consumer OLED TVs. OLED "Color by White" uses all White OLEDs and RGB filters to create the color pallet.

Hope this helps.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Ray, I thoroughly answered your questions and explained the facts with accurate technical details, except for the questions about the UHD Alliance's certification of LG's new 4K OLED TV as no one knows at this time any of the TVs that will be UHD Alliance certified. It's difficult to speculate on how the UHD Alliance will determine which TVs qualify and which do not. But I am confident that if they look at each 4K HDR TV with HDR/WCG content LG's EF9500 series will surely be included.

And just for clarification, LG's 4K OLED does not use RGBW, RGBW is only used on a few low end LCD TVs. OLED is what we call "Color by White" aka WRGB that was invented by Eastman Kodak and LG purchased the rights to the technology and all related patents, which is why LG is the sole manufacturer of consumer OLED TVs. OLED "Color by White" uses all White OLEDs and RGB filters to create the color pallet.

Hope this helps.

-Robert

I hope the distinction between WRGB and RGBW is clearly communicated to the consumer.

[dobyblue]

Yeah, so they can go home and wonder what the heck you were talking about while watching 4:3 SD content stretched because they don't pay for HD.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Kaleidescape only uses Blu-ray source material for 1080P and 4K Ultra HD downloads that are bit for bit exactly the same as the 1080P Blu-ray discs and future 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs. In fact the only way to watch 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray images now is to use Kaleidescape since the optical discs for 4K Ultra HD have not been released yet.

How many of these 4K Ultra HD discs have been authored already and converted to images for Kaleidescape to use bit-for-bit copies of them?

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Yeah, so they can go home and wonder what the heck you were talking about while watching 4:3 SD content stretched because they don't pay for HD.

I'm referring to quality conscious consumers that purchase BDs and are exploring possible purchases of OLED displays. They don't all frequent forums like this.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

How many of these 4K Ultra HD discs have been authored already and converted to images for Kaleidescape to use bit-for-bit copies of them?

There is no reason to believe that Kaleidescape will treat the UHD mezzanine file with less care than they treat the BD bit for bit equivalent downloads they currently provide..

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

I'm referring to quality conscious consumers that purchase BDs and are exploring possible purchases of OLED displays. They don't all frequent forums like this.

They are going to listen to Worst Buys "advice" based on what they "have too much of and need to move this week".

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

There is no reason to believe that Kaleidescape will treat the UHD mezzanine file with less care than they treat the BD bit for bit equivalent downloads they currently provide..

That was not the question. We are being told that RIGHT NOW we can watch 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray images, how many of these 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray images are there? (with a citation)

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

I'm referring to quality conscious consumers that purchase BDs and are exploring possible purchases of OLED displays. They don't all frequent forums like this.

Huge difference, you're referring to approximately 1% of consumers and that didn't come across in your post to Robert. Thanks for clarifying.

[raygendreau]

CES 2016 Innovation Award winners include LG's breakthrough 77-inch 4K OLED TV for 2016

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300176182.html

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

That was not the question. We are being told that RIGHT NOW we can watch 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray images, how many of these 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray images are there? (with a citation)

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Huge difference, you're referring to approximately 1% of consumers and that didn't come across in your post to Robert. Thanks for clarifying.

People attending CEDIA Kaleidescape display by all accounts saw it. The rest will have to wait for the Stratos release in early 2016. I'm sure Kaleidescape will exhibit at CES 2016 as well. Perhaps they will have a side by side comparison of UHD BR and their equivalent download.

Not sure what you're referring to with the 1%? If OLED sales, you and others may be amazed at the 4th quarter LG OLED TV sales if the nonstop activity on the AVForum and AVS Forum owner's threads are any indication. I gave up trying to read all the posts. Several pages per day are added.

[Robert Zohn]

ray, LG's 2016 CES Innovation award is for LG's next gen 77" Flat 4K OLED. I've read a lot of speculation on other forums so I thought I would post what this new LG OLED actually is. This is not the flex unit or the 2015 curved 77" OLED TV.

It will be displayed in LG's 2016 CES exhibit and announced at the press conference the day before the CES exhibits open.

LG's new 55" and 65" Flat 4K OLED TVs are selling extremely well and supply can't keep up with sales. I expect that will be the case well into 2016 and we may see the current $1,000 instant rebate go away.

-Robert

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

ray, LG's 2016 CES Innovation award is for LG's next gen 77" Flat 4K OLED. I've read a lot of speculation on other forums so I thought I would post what this new LG OLED actually is. This is not the flex unit or the 2015 curved 77" OLED TV.

It will be displayed in LG's 2016 CES exhibit and announced at the press conference the day before the CES exhibits open.

LG's new 55" and 65" Flat 4K OLED TVs are selling extremely well and supply can't keep up with sales. I expect that will be the case well into 2016 and we may see the current $1,000 instant rebate go away.

-Robert

I would expect the 2016 77" to have a peak luminance of close to 800 cd/m2.

Do any of your LG contacts have any comment about the UHD Alliance HDR premium standard?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=4615