"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Rick, did you get snow...what about you Doc? ...

Yep, we're working in the dark here in Mass. (had to come into work to get hot water.)

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

Yep, we're working in the dark here in Mass. (had to come into work to get hot water.)

Very sorry to hear that! Hopefully the utility crews get you up & running ASAP!
At me previous home, we had "above ground power lines" and when Hurricane Isabel hit we were w/o power for 7 days. The good news was that our local liqour store enjoyed our business!
Again, hang in there!!

[ole geezer]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Where’s that ole geezer?....
https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-te...ml#post5357030

Now, most recently from some young whipper-snappers reporting out of the parking lot (and their vehicle ) after yet another press event for Titanic in 3D (and 4k 2D availability for those 2D aficionados ), click on and watch the video blog half way down the page….

http://collider.com/titanic-3d-footage-recap/123205/

Warning - the language gets a bit graphic at the very end, unless they've edited since the clip was sent to me.

I am so confused by the business side of your business.

A studio is willing to green light a 200+ million dollar gamble on The Lone Ranger just to keep Johnny Depp happy (what I read) and it's OK for a studio to re-release a classic like West Side Story seemingly through the back door like so much trash.

Now...Titanic in 3D was done for $18 million and The Lion King was done for 10 million. Why not give WSS and (now that I'm really wound up) such hits as The Sound of Music, 2001: a space odyssey and Close Encounters of a Third Kind just to name a few... similar 3D theatrical treatments before their original theatrical audiences get too old to walk. It's just seems like smart business sense to me. These films have built in audiences and as Mr Cameron says...whole generations haven't seen these films on the big screen, the story line quality is there already, 3D conversion is new and if it's done to... a Cameron standard, it's gonna be great, the 3D houses are plentiful.

Thoughts...anyone???

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by ole geezer

Thoughts...anyone???

Here's one:

Tweens buy tickets. Ole geezers don't. Sorry.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ole geezer

Now...Titanic in 3D was done for $18 million and The Lion King was done for 10 million. Why not give WSS and (now that I'm really wound up) such hits as The Sound of Music, 2001: a space odyssey and Close Encounters of a Third Kind just to name a few... similar 3D theatrical treatments before their original theatrical audiences get too old to walk. It's just seems like smart business sense to me. These films have built in audiences and as Mr Cameron says...whole generations haven't seen these films on the big screen, the story line quality is there already, 3D conversion is new and if it's done to... a Cameron standard, it's gonna be great, the 3D houses are plentiful.

Thoughts...anyone???

“there are only a tiny handful of companies that actually know how to do a good job of converting material and have the infrastructure to support feature length work”, see…
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post5283297

and those which do exist, are being offered more work now than they can handle. If you would like to thank one person (who can pass on the accolades to the staff of Stereo 3D) for the 2D -> 3D conversion of Titanic, then start with Graham….
http://twitter.com/#!/GrahamDClark

(Denon CI, he plays golf too .)

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Here's one:

Tweens buy tickets. Ole geezers don't. Sorry.

Especially, in this economy, where many ole geezers and even not quite yet geezer-seasoned folk have watched the equity in their homes, as well as their other investments progressively evaporate into thin air, leaving many wondering if they’ve saved enough (or will save enough) to make it until death.

[ole geezer]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Here's one:

Tweens buy tickets. Ole geezers don't. Sorry.

Yes...that's a sentiment that few can successfully argue against these days, but, let me try.

James Cameron said about his Titanic 3D new release, that he was “reinventing the concept of a re-release.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/...c-3-d-footage/

I like that...and I think he's going to pull it off and in doing so perhaps get the studios to perhaps reinvent that sentiment you expressed 'cause ole geezers and tweens might both enjoy buying tickets to recycled ole classics in 3D.

[Doctorossi]

And that's all well and good, but Titanic is only 10-ish years old and still on the all-time highest-grossing shortlist. Few movies have ever proven to appeal to a broader audience and it's still relatively "fresh", too. Something like West Side Story or Lawrence of Arabia is still big in film circles, but does it have youth appeal? And, as Penton says, the resources available for conversions are rather limited. The movies you mention may make a "top 100" conversion-prospects list, but not a "top 5" and there really isn't room in the marketplace to get beyond that cream-of-the-crop handful.







With that, I'm putting hyphens on moratorium.

[ole geezer]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

“there are only a tiny handful of companies that actually know how to do a good job of converting material and have the infrastructure to support feature length work”, see…
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post5283297

and those which do exist, are being offered more work now than they can handle. If you would like to thank one person (who can pass on the accolades to the staff of Stereo 3D) for the 2D -> 3D conversion of Titanic, then start with Graham….
http://twitter.com/#!/GrahamDClark

(Denon CI, he plays golf too .)

Penton....
Thanks for the Twitter link to this fascinating personality. Great reading and some good stuff. Example of a recent tweet by Mr Clark:

Watching #LionKing3D a library film 3D conversion. Theatre is full. Mostly adults at 9:55pm sat.

I'm not a fan of animated 3D, but...these films unquestionably draw a large audience.

[ole geezer]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

And that's all well and good, but Titanic is only 10-ish years old and still on the all-time highest-grossing shortlist. Few movies have ever proven to appeal to a broader audience and it's still relatively "fresh", too. Something like West Side Story or Lawrence of Arabia is still big in film circles, but does it have youth appeal?

Hmmmmm....me thinks the more relevant question is would West Side Story or Lawrence of Arabia appeal to 3D audiences in general? In other words...let the new 3D technology act as a magnet to attract ALL audiences young and old to recycled classics.

Let's not forget that world-wide, it's about a 50/50 split between 2D and 3D attendance with momentum on 3D attendance gaining favor. Time to "feed" these audiences with something other than animated/comic book 3D features.

And, as Penton says, the resources available for conversions are rather limited. The movies you mention may make a "top 100" conversion-prospects list, but not a "top 5" and there really isn't room in the marketplace to get beyond that cream-of-the-crop handful.

Yes...in an era where studios are scaling down on projects and personnel across the board, it appears that 3D conversion houses are going great guns. That alone should tell you something and what needs to be done.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by ole geezer

Hmmmmm....me thinks the more relevant question is would West Side Story or Lawrence of Arabia appeal to 3D audiences in general? In other words...let the new 3D technology act as a magnet to attract ALL audiences young and old to recycled classics.

I'm sure they would, but as much as Titanic or Star Wars? I very much doubt that and I very much doubt you could convince a bean-counter of that.

Originally Posted by ole geezer

Yes...in an era where studios are scaling down on projects and personnel across the board, it appears that 3D conversion houses are going great guns. That alone should tell you something and what needs to be done.

It is being done. 3D conversion houses are being filled to capacity with projects like Titanic. Anything else is just further down the list. And you and I disagree about the propriety of 3D conversions of old classics in the first place, so we're going to have a different definition of "what needs to be done".

[Doctorossi]

Does anyone know anything about that "before the end of the year" Patton re-master that was mooted on the Bits in the summer? I'm guessing it must've been delayed... ?

[ole geezer]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I'm sure they would, but as much as Titanic or Star Wars? I very much doubt that and I very much doubt you could convince a bean-counter of that.

All I can say about this is thank God we have visionaries in the film industry such as James Cameron and George Lucas. Their fights with studio bean counters early in their careers are legendarily and now that they don't need anyone's approval, all that's left for the bean counters to do is just propose copying their pioneering efforts to their bosses.

It is being done. 3D conversion houses are being filled to capacity with projects like Titanic. Anything else is just further down the list. And you and I disagree about the propriety of 3D conversions of old classics in the first place, so we're going to have a different definition of "what needs to be done".

Yup...adding 3D depth to an old classic where all the creative principals are long gone is a hurdle the studios have yet to face, but I have every confidence in their abilities to be able to do such a project. And... strictly speaking as a long time movie enthusiast and a short time 3D fan, I wouldn't have any reservations what-so-ever about spending a measly $10 to see such a 3D conversion effort.

Tell me. Wouldn't you be the least bit curious about how these 3D conversions might look? After all, 3D does have a huge WOW factor and is far more entertaining. Anyway, as in Titanic 3D, perhaps 4k 2D prints might be struck as well.

[ole geezer]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Does anyone know anything about that "before the end of the year" Patton re-master that was mooted on the Bits in the summer? I'm guessing it must've been delayed... ?

Patton...huh. Now there's a thought....

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by ole geezer

All I can say about this is thank God we have visionaries in the film industry such as James Cameron and George Lucas. Their fights with studio bean counters early in their careers are legendarily and now that they don't need anyone's approval, all that's left for the bean counters to do is just propose copying their pioneering efforts to their bosses.

I think you're missing my point. Titanic and Star Wars are being done because they have huge commercial potential. West Side Story and Lawrence of Arabia are a gamble at best.

Originally Posted by ole geezer

Yup...adding 3D depth to an old classic where all the creative principals are long gone is a hurdle the studios have yet to face, but I have every confidence in their abilities to be able to do such a project.

I also have complete faith in their ability to produce a "professional" product with such a conversion- that's not an issue for me. These movies are not just commercial products; they are works of art. Millions of creative decisions were involved in their production and 3D was not on the radar.

Originally Posted by ole geezer

Tell me. Wouldn't you be the least bit curious about how these 3D conversions might look? After all, 3D does have a huge WOW factor and is far more entertaining.

I answered this before: I would have some amount of professional curiosity about some of the choices made, in the same way that I am educated by reading articles in Cinefex about the post-production of even terrible movies. However, I watch Lawrence of Arabia to experience the statement that David Lean wanted to make; I don't want any more modifications made to that vision than are absolutely necessary.

[ole geezer]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I think you're missing my point. Titanic and Star Wars are being done because they have huge commercial potential. West Side Story and Lawrence of Arabia are a gamble at best.

I think your point was that youth appeal perhaps was a necessary ingredient for successful re-releases of older catalog titles such as WSS and LoA and I countered with 3D itself being the major attraction.

Honestly....I think film enthusiast, regardless of whether they saw these films in the '60's or even on TV could resist not seeing these classics in 3D and since the production costs are relatively modest...between the BO receipts, TV broadcasting rights and 3D Blu-ray revenue...how can they not be profitable.

I also have complete faith in their ability to produce a "professional" product with such a conversion- that's not an issue for me. These movies are not just commercial products; they are works of art. Millions of creative decisions were involved in their production and 3D was not on the radar.

Fair enough. I'm sure you're 100% correct about the art aspects that went into the production of these fine films. Never-the-less, I'd still like to see what today's creative artists could do with these older films by adding another dimension to the mix.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by ole geezer

I think your point was that youth appeal perhaps was a necessary ingredient for successful re-releases of older catalog titles such as WSS and LoA and I countered with 3D itself being the major attraction.

Not quite- my point was about youth appeal being a necessary ingredient of a 3D re-release of anything and that those movies don't necessarily have it.

Originally Posted by ole geezer

I think film enthusiast, regardless of whether they saw these films in the '60's or even on TV could resist not seeing these classics in 3D

Well, I would consider myself a film enthusiast and I would go out of my way to avoid them.

Originally Posted by ole geezer

since the production costs are relatively modest...

The problem is not the production costs; it's the opportunity cost. Every West Side Story 3D in theatres is a Titanic 3D not in theatres.

Originally Posted by ole geezer

I'd still like to see what today's creative artists could do with these older films by adding another dimension to the mix.

And that's where we differ.

[ole geezer]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Not quite- my point was about youth appeal being a necessary ingredient of a 3D re-release of anything and that those movies don't necessarily have it.

Youth appeal; what exactly is that these days? Is it a class of movie goers that drools over animated talking animals, CGI created robots and deafening explosions? Yeah...I admit that type buys and ole geezers like me rent. You think ole timers like me and others outside that demographic are going to shell out $8 bucks to see the likes of a Cowboys and Aliens when it's just as easy to pay $1....urrrrr $1.20 to rent it.

The irony contained in your argument is that both West Side Story and Lawrence of Arabia targeted mostly younger audiences of that time period.

Well, I would consider myself a film enthusiast and I would go out of my way to avoid them.

I feel the same way about animated films. Oh yeah...I did Dumbo and Bambi back when I was a kid but that was before I discovered there was no Santa Claus.

The problem is not the production costs; it's the opportunity cost. Every West Side Story 3D in theatres is a Titanic 3D not in theatres.

Beyond the obvious strategy of staggering releases of this type, I gotta admit....
those two features would make a hell-of-a one, two billing.

Every generation deserves to see quality films of this type presented in the best state of the art technology available at the moment ON THE BIG SCREEN.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by ole geezer

The irony contained in your argument is that both West Side Story and Lawrence of Arabia targeted mostly younger audiences of that time period.

Yeah, but that was then and this (somewhat unfortunately) is now.

Originally Posted by ole geezer

I feel the same way about animated films.

I'm sorry to hear that. Some truly great animated features have been made in the last couple of decades.

Originally Posted by ole geezer

Every generation deserves to see quality films of this type presented in the best state of the art technology available at the moment ON THE BIG SCREEN.

I absolutely agree with you there. However, I don't include 3D re-interpretations among the kind of presentations these films should receive.

[Cinemave]

I don't see where the original contracts that governed the rights of the old classics like Lawrence of Arabia, Patton, and others could hold up with a 3-D re-release. Especially when you're dealing with estates of actors and directors who are no longer with us. It looks like a lot of wrangling could be in store for the older films.