"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[sharkshark]

So, Penton, got any connections at Sony Music Canada? If so, PM, Mr. PM.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Helluva a football game! I was really impressed with Boise State because playing at FedEx Field in Landover, Md. last night, was almost like playing at Virginia Tech’s home stadium in Blacksburg, Virginia...in terms of crowd support.

If Boise State remains unbeaten, it certainly will be interesting to see how the rankings end up before the Bowl games are announced.

Wow, we are finally talking about my favorite sport in the world: College Football.

Boise just needs to hope that VT wins from here on out to have a chance at the BCS title game.

[sharkshark]

what's with all the hand-egg talk? 'tis the season, I guess...

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

what's with all the hand-egg talk? 'tis the season, I guess...

Pig-Missile's popular 'round here, for some reason.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Wow, we are finally talking about my favorite sport in the world: College Football.

Boise just needs to hope that VT wins from here on out to have a chance at the BCS title game.

Boise received 7 first place votes in this weeks poll. Not bad.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

You are correct most people do not even have the space to see 1080p at full resolution. I can see 4K being used in theaters so they can maintain a competitive edge over home TVs.

I don't agree with the first part, but I think you are right with the second part, we won't see a drive for 4K for home until theatres move beyond that. Theatres/studios have always tried to give an edge to theatrical presentations (that was the major reason theatres went from Academy to wide screen when TVs came out)

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

So yes, 4k and 3D is certainly possible but at home this kind of system will not really get very popular

agree, but then again, projection is not very popular

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

agree, but then again, projection is not very popular

And will become even less popular if you have to change optics between movies

You make an interesting point about giving an edge to theatrical presentations. My opinion is that with the prevalence of 2k DCI projectors this idea has gone right out of the window. 2k and HD 1080p luma resolution are almost identical and one can get a 1080p projector for about 1000$ these days. There is not much of an edge for most digital cinemas with consumer projectors coming down to such a price point at comparable perfomance (at least in the eye of the consumer).

4k in cinemas does change this again as 4k will apparently take a long long time to trickle down to sub 10000$ consumer projectors, plus there will not be any 4k movies available to the consumer so this will also hinder the development of affordable 4k projectors.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Madshi, one thing for sure is that if the screencap folks have any HD broadcast captures from Aliens to do a Blu-ray vs HDTV comparison like with Fellowship of the Ring, that thread may just turn out to be the hottest thing on the internet since sliced bread or the American pick-up truck. Suddenly, I find myself rather envious of you, eric and xylon over there at AVS.

Just as a quick update:

There are first screenshots available from both the Alien and Aliens Blu-Rays. And both are just fine. The Alien BD beats the D-Theater release (finer grain structure). The Aliens Blu-Ray screenshots were a positive surprise. Either James Cameron pulled our legs with his comments about completely degraining Aliens, or he just put the grain back in after having removed it. Either way, looks good to me - at least in screenshots. Obviously I can't comment on how it looks in motion yet. Here are a couple of screenshots, just as a first glimpse:

Alien D-Theater vs. Alien Blu-Ray
Aliens 1080i Broadcast vs. Aliens Blu-Ray
Aliens 1080i Broadcast vs. Aliens Blu-Ray

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by madshi

Either James Cameron pulled our legs with his comments about completely degraining Aliens, or he just put the grain back in after having removed it.

There is still a lot of grain in dark areas so my money would be on grain reduction. If they regrainied the whole movie it would seem that this amount of grain is a bit too much - but who knows with Cameron, we have been surprised before

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Pig-Missile's popular 'round here, for some reason.

Because soccer doesn’t have the same amenities like college football….
http://deadspin.com/sports/usc-song-...ion-225682.php

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

4k in cinemas does change this again as 4k will apparently take a long long time to trickle down to sub 10000$ consumer projectors, plus there will not be any 4k movies available to the consumer so this will also hinder the development of affordable 4k projectors.

Correct Oliver.
Additionally, something to keep in mind for people that throw around the 4k ‘quality thing’ with reckless abandonment as a guarantee of obviously superior sharpness compared to 2k sourced motion pictures when viewed via the Blu-ray format -

In the world outside of internet forums, this is not so obviously apparent. It all depends on the principal photography. There have been (and continue to be) many direct comparisons done at different post houses around town where in determining whether the production should be ultimately finished in 2k vs 4k, preliminary testing is done producing 2k and 4k film outs with the same color grade. These tests (without revealing which was which at introduction) are then shown to the filmmakers and if for instance, a lot of soft lighting and diffusion was employed on the production, nobody but the Director of Photography and the digital colorists in the room can differentiate between the two samples….and even that requires some serious eye straining on their part.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by madshi

Just as a quick update:

There are first screenshots available from both the Alien and Aliens Blu-Rays. And both are just fine. The Alien BD beats the D-Theater release (finer grain structure). The Aliens Blu-Ray screenshots were a positive surprise. Either James Cameron pulled our legs with his comments about completely degraining Aliens, or he just put the grain back in after having removed it. Either way, looks good to me - at least in screenshots. Obviously I can't comment on how it looks in motion yet. Here are a couple of screenshots, just as a first glimpse:

Alien D-Theater vs. Alien Blu-Ray
Aliens 1080i Broadcast vs. Aliens Blu-Ray
Aliens 1080i Broadcast vs. Aliens Blu-Ray

Well, I don’t want to get into the merits vs. pitfalls of screencaps again because recently I’ve found the screenshot scientists to be rather unbiased when it comes to evaluating Blu-rays from different studios, which is far more than I can say for other reviewers who seem to be more selective in what they will and won’t review, so as not to raise a black flag…. but something that should be kept in mind is that even if those couple of screenshots are completely accurate to the real time viewing experience….and for the sake of not arguing, let’s say that they are . That represents a sample of a measly two frames from a motion picture (Aliens) that is over 2 hr. long.

And when careful degraining is done, the parameters of the software are changed multiple times on a scene-to-scene or even shot-to-shot basis depending on the time/budget of the project, for which I assume this project was well-funded. So, short of viewing the entire Blu-ray movies in real time (esp. Aliens), tell your buddies that they need additional samples if they’re into this sort of thing.

This does bring up the more important question(s) in view of all the attention given to ‘dnr’ on some consumer internet forums, because given Jim’s pre-release comments, the Aliens Blu-ray product should represent a watershed moment in viewers’ future thinking/postings. Namely, if the screenshots and more definitive realtime viewing of the Aliens Blu-ray is determined by the masses to indeed be very pleasing to the eye, especially if some view the PQ as fabulous or outstanding, then is some degree of ‘dnr’ and or ‘dnr with subsequent regrain’ now completely acceptable to ‘videophiles’?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

[...] That represents a sample of a measly two frames from a motion picture (Aliens) that is over 2 hr. long.

And when careful degraining is done, the parameters of the software are changed multiple times on a scene-to-scene or even shot-to-shot basis depending on the time/budget of the project, for which I assume this project was well-funded. So, short of viewing the entire Blu-ray movies in real time (esp. Aliens), tell your buddies that they need additional samples if they’re into this sort of thing.

Of course. I fully agree. There are more screenshots available, though, and most of them look similar. I just wanted to post a link to one representative screenshot for both movies here, so people here can get a quick first impression (nothing more) of what to expect. Of course we need to wait for the Blu-Rays and play them in motion, too, before we can do a final judgement. Still, it looks like Aliens might not be the catastrophe many (including me) were expecting, after James Cameron's comments.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

This does bring up the more important question(s) in view of all the attention given to ‘dnr’ on some consumer internet forums, because given Jim’s pre-release comments, the Aliens Blu-ray product should represent a watershed moment in viewers’ future thinking/postings. Namely, if the screenshots and more definitive realtime viewing of the Aliens Blu-ray is determined by the masses to indeed be very pleasing to the eye, especially if some view the PQ as fabulous or outstanding, then is some degree of ‘dnr’ and or ‘dnr with subsequent regrain’ now completely acceptable to ‘videophiles’?

I honestly do not have an answer to that.

[Doctorossi]

... and how 'bout that substantially different timing on both films?

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, on that note, in order to give the little fella (16mm. source) a tip of the hat, Wanda (1970) was Barbara Loden’s only film as director and will be shown at MOMA on Oct. 27. This is a new restoration which had its world premiere at the Venice Film Festival last week but, you can catch it in Manhattan next month-
http://www10.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/...g4qWp+Hit0GJ3w...

Interesting film. I'll try it on DVD.

Not exactly mainstream. How did you spot it/become attracted to it?

Just curious.

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

...The most impressive picture of the show imo was a 4k 160" plasma fed with 4k demonstration material - a good old high resolution 2D picture that looked very 3D just by virtue of its superior resolution...

Who was exhibiting this? (It was not clear from your summary.)

Thanks!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

... and how 'bout that substantially different timing on both films?

You mean as per the madshi posted screenshots of Aliens? Honestly, I haven’t seen Aliens in over 20 years, so I have no idea which Mise-en-scène screenshot is more accurate to the colors of the original theatrical presentation.

I think Aliens fans, or projectionist types, would be far more qualified than me to comment on the color grade of the Blu-ray edition.

However, I’m currently convinced that many videophiles don’t pay much attention to the colors of Blu-ray home video incarnations as compared to the theatrical presentations as long as three criteria are now met….
1. The color changes for home video have been *approved* by the Director.
2. The color changes now are more in line with an *eye candy* look….meaning more vivid than drab and dull.

And most importantly,

3. Pretty much all color discrepancy to theatrical is dismissed if the images are sharp as a tack with no evidence of haloing.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

Interesting film. I'll try it on DVD.

Not exactly mainstream. How did you spot it/become attracted to it?

Just curious.

The details/background of the restoration were discussed at a recent technical symposium which I attended in Hollywood…..I did not see one “celebrity” in attendance.

[Penton-Man]

Oliver, as a follow-up to cjamescook’s question to you and at the risk of providing YouTube ammunition to all those nutters who think that glasses-free 3D displays are just around the corner in terms of being available for consumers’ homes , as it’s a loooooong way from one-off prototypes displayed at shows to workable, sellable solutions in papa’s house.

I heard, in terms of content (me having the fondness of motorcycling, esp. off-road, that I do) that Germany's Fraunhofer Institute showed a 3D scene of an enduro rider in their clip demoing their glasses-free solution…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDoxqf9UPYE

Apparently, the racer wasn’t on a vintage Penton or KTM but if true, I find it gratifying that the Fraunhofer folks deemed such a sport merit-able to include it in their 3D clip, in the first place . Oliver, did you happen to see that demo?