I need movies from the 20TH CENTURY on UHD, too!

[Geoff D]

I disagree sir. The finer resolution of 4K means that grain itself is rendered finer, now I DON'T mean that it suddenly disappears from view but it DOES come across less coarse than what it would do on an equivalent BD presentation. What we see on Blu-ray specifically is as good as compressed 1080p will allow, but it's still not as finely grained as what the source holds and 4K's spatial resolution will get UHD closer to that.

As for grain reduction, I didn't say anything about "using it on Ultra HD" just because, I said that it's part of the package with HDR because of how the higher range exacerbates noise/grain. I'm sure Penton will be along to elucidate in due course.

[Scarface32]

There's about 6 or-so movies by 20th Century Fox coming to UHD, how many do you need?

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I disagree sir. The finer resolution of 4K means that grain itself is rendered finer, now I DON'T mean that it suddenly disappears from view but it DOES come across less coarse than what it would do on an equivalent BD presentation. What we see on Blu-ray specifically is as good as compressed 1080p will allow, but it's still not as finely grained as what the source holds and 4K's spatial resolution will get UHD closer to that.

As for grain reduction, I didn't say anything about "using it on Ultra HD" just because, I said that it's part of the package with HDR because of how the higher range exacerbates noise/grain. I'm sure Penton will be along to elucidate in due course.

You might have a point but as usual, this is true only if you watch images at VERY close distance from the screen because you are able to see pixels more distinctly or maybe if you have a theater in your house....

[Geoff D]

Sure, why'd ya think I'm not sold on 4K video/UHD Blu to begin with?

Still, I've been comparing a clip of Fifth Element in 4K to the equivalent Mi4K Blu-ray and the differences are so minor it's not even funny. Finer grain, check. Slight amount of extra detail, check. Worth bothering with just for the increase in spatial resolution alone? HECK no.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Sure, why'd ya think I'm not sold on 4K video/UHD Blu to begin with?

Still, I've been comparing a clip of Fifth Element in 4K to the equivalent Mi4K Blu-ray and the differences are so minor it's not even funny. Finer grain, check. Slight amount of extra detail, check. Worth bothering with just for the increase in spatial resolution alone? HECK no.

But with other full movies you will notice that the resolution is native to your display, and you will begin to notice the upscaling artifacts I bet (mind you the Sony sets are one of the best)

[Geoff D]

I think I'd have noticed any upscaling artefacts by now, it really is seamless and if I do see anything untoward like the aliasing on Shout's EFNY then I always double check on a 1080p display and, yep, the aliasing was clear as day on that one too. Sorry mike, UHD BD can go and do one AFAIC.

But I'll be honest, I thought the upscaling might be why I see a slight 'shimmer' to closely grouped lines on the new Fifth Element Blu-ray but nope, the same shimmer is there on the native 4K clip so I'd say that's down to the sharpening on the new transfer, there's an edginess to it that not even mighty FORKAY can sort out (to my eyes it looks even harsher than the BD due to the extra resolution!)

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think I'd have noticed any upscaling artefacts by now, it really is seamless and if I do see anything untoward like the aliasing on Shout's EFNY then I always double check on a 1080p display and, yep, the aliasing was clear as day on that one too. Sorry mike, UHD BD can go and do one AFAIC.

But I'll be honest, I thought the upscaling might be why I see a slight 'shimmer' to closely grouped lines on the new Fifth Element Blu-ray but nope, the same shimmer is there on the native 4K clip so I'd say that's down to the sharpening on the new transfer, there's an edginess to it that not even mighty FORKAY can sort out (to my eyes it looks even harsher than the BD due to the extra resolution!)

I think the more actual 4k you watch the more you notice it.
720p upscaled kills my eyes after a while, salt looks great as does groundhog day.
Mind you I do have to say that men in black 3 looks really great, as does the extra detail in Chappie

[Geoff D]

But you're not watching on a 4K set, correct? There is a certain "shinyness" to 4K material over and above upscaled 1080p (this isn't my first time seeing 4K on my TV ) but unless it's something shot/finished on clean, modern digital or large format I just don't think it's worth it.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But you're not watching on a 4K set, correct? There is a certain "shinyness" to 4K material over and above upscaled 1080p (this isn't my first time seeing 4K on my TV ) but unless it's something shot/finished on clean, modern digital or large format I just don't think it's worth it.

No I get that totally, but the more native content I watch the more I notice upscaled content
I am playing on a dual monitor set up at 3840x1080, so not the full res, but its a start.
And have a new job and a huge pay rise so that TV will be finally bought (maybe)

[Geoff D]

For me it's more about the softness that one has versus the other rather than any outward scaling "artefacts" but as someone who prefers soft over sharp and who still has plenty of time for a well mastered DVD (whereas other folks deem them to be "unwatchable" on a 1080p TV, never mind 4K!) I'm just not cray-cray for getting images so sharp I could cut my hand on them.

But yeah, the new thing becomes "the norm" over time so if UHD BD survives for long enough for the players to become dirt cheap then even I'll partake and go on a movie buying spree like I did with every new format I've bought over the years, then I'm sure normal Blu-ray will start to look naff.

Congrats on the job though, I'm guessing it's not with Sony?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

...I'm sure Penton will be along to elucidate in due course.

Already done last March in communication with Mike….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post10502760

A month later, discussed and confirmed by Hanno at NAB, see the brightcove link for the panel discussion…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...b#post10855136

The grain/noise challenge brings to mind another problematic artifact exacerbated by HDR, that being strobe, especially seen in fast action sequences shot at 24fps with 180 degree shutter. This is because a high contrast object always strobes more than a low contrast object and as we all know, HDR is all about high contrast. (as an aside, good source material for testing for those having interest and the skills - http://www.dcimovies.com/2014_StEM_Access/ )

Anyway, this strobe, or flicker, if you will, exacerbation concept was inadvertently proven to be true during an HDR display shootout attended by professionals in L.A. several months ago in which the motion interpolation setting in one of the consumer HDR TVs couldn’t be disabled and the notwithstanding the resultant soap opera effect (which everyone disliked), it readily cured the strobing artifact and in that regard, looked superior to the other tested brands which had motion interpolation turned off, as requested.

[MisterXDTV]

Groundhog Day (1993)

Blu-ray M4K vs 2160p Web-DL (50 Mbit/s H265 HEVC)

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/150893

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Groundhog Day (1993)

Blu-ray M4K vs 2160p Web-DL (50 Mbit/s H265 HEVC)

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/150893

Really badly encoded this one, looks OK in motion tho

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

For me it's more about the softness that one has versus the other rather than any outward scaling "artefacts" but as someone who prefers soft over sharp and who still has plenty of time for a well mastered DVD (whereas other folks deem them to be "unwatchable" on a 1080p TV, never mind 4K!) I'm just not cray-cray for getting images so sharp I could cut my hand on them.

But yeah, the new thing becomes "the norm" over time so if UHD BD survives for long enough for the players to become dirt cheap then even I'll partake and go on a movie buying spree like I did with every new format I've bought over the years, then I'm sure normal Blu-ray will start to look naff.

Congrats on the job though, I'm guessing it's not with Sony?

I went with Samsung, they like HDR more and I like dem curved screens

[Geoff D]

Samsung? What, the job or the TV?

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Samsung? What, the job or the TV?

Job lol, no way on earth I would buy one of their tv's! I am staunchly Sony

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

I went with Samsung, they like HDR more....

I had a feeling you’d be coming around . I’m wondering if the new job is seasonal or full time?
Graveyard shift or normal human hours?