Value Electronics 2015 Flat Panel Shootout at CE Week

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

What type/size does he want? 1080p/4K/UHD4K
24"-120"

How much does he want to spend?
$299-$120,000.00?

….he’s a flagship TV/bottom line type of guy and i just desird if anyone knew off the top of their head what the prices were of the TVs that qualified to be in the shootout in the first place so I can quicikly copy and send email to him…i’m real busy at work, don’t have time to gogle it for him.

no analysis/opinion needed. just size and price of the contenders. I already bombard him enough with grading system LUT based calibration tech talk when I dog walk with him and his shepherd onweekends.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

….he’s a flagship TV/bottom line type of guy and i just desird if anyone knew off the top of their head what the prices were of the TVs that qualified to be in the shootout in the first place so I can quicikly copy and send email to him…i’m real busy at work, don’t have time to gogle it for him.

no analysis/opinion needed. just size and price of the contenders. I already bombard him enough with grading system LUT based calibration tech talk when I dog walk with him and his shepherd onweekends.

After the winner is picked. V.E. will send out how each fared in each cateory

No analysis/opinion is ever given


2014 Chart


What this chart fails to do is: Recognize that the Samsung 64F8500 tied with LG's OLED

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

After the winner is picked. V.E. will send out how each fared in each cateory

No analysis/opinion is ever given


2014 Chart


What this chart fails to do is: Recognize that the Samsung 64F8500 tied with LG's OLED

This year's scoring is only single digit scores (no 8.3, 7.2, etc). One thing that this year's shootout was missing was the detailed breakdown from the calibrators in which the showed a particular set's faults in each section (which is something the manufacturer's really paid attention to and appreciated). Scott, did a good job, but he didn't really go into detail on that aspect.

[raygendreau]

The LG won the shootout, even with low marks on screen uniformity, both on the audience and pro balloting.

http://www.valueelectronics.com/uplo..._Table_1-1.pdf

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by Wingman1977

This year's scoring is only single digit scores (no 8.3, 7.2, etc). One thing that this year's shootout was missing was the detailed breakdown from the calibrators in which the showed a particular set's faults in each section (which is something the manufacturer's really paid attention to and appreciated). Scott, did a good job, but he didn't really go into detail on that aspect.

When averaging, single digit scores become 8.3, 7.2, etc.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

The LG won the shootout, even with low marks on screen uniformity, both on the audience and pro balloting.

http://www.valueelectronics.com/uplo..._Table_1-1.pdf

To me screen uniformity is very important along with color accuracy and motion clarity. I have to rethink my next set,

I didn't want to have to do curve but I might

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

To me screen uniformity is very important along with color accuracy and motion clarity. I have to rethink my next set,

I didn't want to have to do curve but I might

It's something that can be fixed with a FW upgrade.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

The LG OLED had two problems: one was the weird irregular black seen at the left and right edges during dark scenes. The darker the scene, the worse it got....

The other was that the color was a bit off - it was greener than the other sets, but I'll admit it was a bit hard to tell whether it was the LG that was off or all the other sets that were off and whether this was inherent to the set or whether it was calibrated incorrectly.

I’m not surprised.

Poor color accuracy of consumer LG OLEDs is a known issue in post houses in Hollywood….unless getting help via an external LUT box or grading system LUT based calibration. Good luck with consumers bringing in someone to their homes to do that.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

After the winner is picked. V.E. will send out how each fared in each cateory

We’re not on the same wavelength, I/he doesn’t care about the detailed scoring. Background: Over the past months I’ve unintentionally sensitized him against LG OLEDs because of significant potential issues with HDR and their known (at least in post houses here in Hollywood, who have and use them daily) of their poor color accuracy, unless one gets into LUT usage as I noted above, which as a hobbyist dealing with run of the mill calibrators, he won’t and which, for that matter, I doubt any of the calibrators did which Robert employed for the event.

Plus, personally he, doesn’t want to have to go any smaller than 70” for his family room. Bottom line….that leaves the 75” Sony or the 78” Sammy as his choices and if I got the contending models correctly, there’s roughly a 2K price differential (without tax) between the 2 at any reputable dealer, $8,000 vs. $10,000 correct? If anyone knows of a greater price differential from someone you can trust to buy from (Robert, etc.), PM me.

So, bottom line question to Zoet or anyone else who attended and considers themselves as having a fat wallet however still *value-oriented*, SIMPLY, do you think the Sammy is worth 2K more than the Sony?

[punisher]

Originally Posted by Wingman1977

It's something that can be fixed with a FW upgrade.

you mean like the Sharp Elite...LOL..that never happened

and another one bites the dust...

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by punisher

you mean like the Sharp Elite...LOL..that never happened

and another one bites the dust...

Sharp bit off more than they could chew.

[raygendreau]

2015 shootout results review:

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/LG...ng-of-TV.shtml

EDIT: And LG PR spins the results. Of course there is no mention here of the dark edge issues and screen uniformity acknowledged by LG's Tim Alissi during the shoot out. The edge issue has been reported for months, yet according to Alissi they don't know what is causing it. Time to shake up the Video processing engineers. Maybe steal some from Sony or Samsung?

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300105578.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

The edge issue has been reported for months...

As has, the color issue - March 2015

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

So, bottom line question to Zoet or anyone else who attended and considers themselves as having a fat wallet however still *value-oriented*, SIMPLY, do you think the Sammy is worth 2K more than the Sony?

Nobody chiming in? Zoet, you online?…. he wants the TV in time for the Tour de France which is coming up. If I don’t hear back I’ll advise him to go with #5 on the list of Consumer Monitors in the Version 3 document of a trusted, non-biased source - http://phenix.it-sudparis.eu/jct/doc...t.php?id=10049

as posted in the Tech forum of Blu-ray.com several days ago.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

Interesting about the OLED.

The OLED was on my list of potentials but this is making me reconsider

LG is supposedly working on the issue and they expect to fix it, but the LG rep didn't know (or wouldn't say) whether it was a hardware or software issue. He implied at one point that units coming off the production line now were "better", but the unit at the demo had come off the production line.

Personally, unless you're in desperate need of a new set, I'd hold off until the sets incorporate the new color gamuts....Rec 2020 and all that. And then there's the HDR issue, which is also eventually coming down the pike:

Joe Kane did a presentation about HDR. They had a TV (a Samsung I think) that supports HDR, playing back an HDR version of "The Ten Commandments". Below that they had a regular Samsung playing back a regular BD in sync. Sky and specular highlights were certainly better and brighter on the HDR set. They also played back some footage that Joe shot himself...a bunch of nature scenes. They did look good, but I can't say they looked so good that it made me want to go out and buy an HDR set. The set also supported wider color gamut and the color certainly was different - I can't say for sure that it was better.

But beyond that, he said that there's a new logo for UHD that incorporates "4K" in front of it. Sets that display the new logo, with the "4K" in front, will support both theatre resolution 4K (4096 x 2160) as well as home format 4K (3840 x 1080). I thought that was significant, although there's no sign that any company is intending to send down a 4096x2160 signal. There's also the issue of whether the HDMI connection can support it, which was the original reason for reducing the resolution for the home.

But theoretically, theatrical 4K support could mean that "broadcasters" could play the equivalent of the theatrical 4K DCP. But to see it properly, sets would have to incorporate the "P3" color gamut.

Kane also said that in order to see the benefit of the increased resolution for home 4K, you had to sit within a few feet of the TV. This is backed up by separate research (not discussed in this demo) that shows that consumers react far more positively to better color and dynamic range than they do to increased resolution.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Nobody chiming in? Zoet, you online?…. he wants the TV in time for the Tour de France which is coming up. If I don’t hear back I’ll advise him to go with #5 on the list of Consumer Monitors in the Version 3 document of a trusted, non-biased source - http://phenix.it-sudparis.eu/jct/doc...t.php?id=10049

as posted in the Tech forum of Blu-ray.com several days ago.

I did not realize that the Sammy was $2K more than the Sony. No, I definitely don't think it was worth $2K more. If he has to have a new set now, I'd go with the Sony, although the Sony looks pretty much like Sony's have always looked and it still has the backlight glow problem when you have white credits on a black background, although it's not as noticeable as on my Sony HX-929 from a few years ago.

But he should realize that in six months, that Sony will probably be several $thousand cheaper.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Nobody chiming in? Zoet, you online?…. he wants the TV in time for the Tour de France which is coming up. If I don’t hear back I’ll advise him to go with #5 on the list of Consumer Monitors in the Version 3 document of a trusted, non-biased source - http://phenix.it-sudparis.eu/jct/doc...t.php?id=10049

as posted in the Tech forum of Blu-ray.com several days ago.

Prices and model numbers of the 4 shootout displays are covered in Zohns intro during the first few minutes.

http://livestream.com/accounts/632436/events/4151627

[Robert Zohn]

Models/prices of the four TVs in our 2015 Flat Panel TV Shootout evaluation event:

1. Panasonic TC-65CX850U $3,499
2. Sony XBR-75X940C $7,999
3. UN78JS9500 $9,999
4. LG OLED 65EG9600 $8,999

-Robert

[raygendreau]

There were 5 shootout sessions over the two days. Several people attended more than one session. I wonder if anyone voted more than once? There were no signatures on the ballots that I saw images of on line.

With the rapid growth in streaming and digital downloads, I'm surprised that UHD internet delivered content (Netflix, Ultraflix, Amazon, M-go) is not used for some element of the evaluation. Perhaps in the future.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Kane also said that in order to see the benefit of the increased resolution for home 4K, you had to sit within a few feet of the TV. This is backed up by separate research (not discussed in this demo) that shows that consumers react far more positively to better color and dynamic range than they do to increased resolution.

I’m quite familiar with the professional testing in regards to screen-to-eye distances for 4K viewing and value compared to HDR and HFR, e.g. from almost a year ago - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...de#post9485052 .

Though, I’d like to hear Joe’s reference to the separate research that evaluates the assertion of increased benefit of WCG vs. 4K spatial resolution. Not saying it’s wrong, on the contrary, I tend to agree esp. with the right content and combined with HDR since any moron knows that color is distance independent but, it’s just that I would like to see the specific research or details thereof, as I don’t know what study he’s referring to because it’s a difficult thing to scientifically test for…..comparing those two parameters head-to-head.