Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk 4K UHD 60p/3D (2016)

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by LoSouL

I hope we get the HFR versions on UHD.

Unfortunately not possible due to UHD specs not conforming to 48fps.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Unfortunately not possible due to UHD specs not conforming to 48fps.

It's not possible to present it at the native 48fps, but it could be converted to 60fps for the disc.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

It's not possible to present it at the native 48fps, but it could be converted to 60fps for the disc.

Not sure how they’d do that, it would require creating new information to fill in for the frames that simply don’t exist. In other words, motion interpolation lol

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

So now it went from bashing HFR to bashing personal TV preference...I see

Nah, I don't even know what kind of TVs you prefer. Don't take it personally. But yeah, you're right about bashing HFR though.

[LoSouL]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Unfortunately not possible due to UHD specs not conforming to 48fps.

Ah, that's too bad. I thought it could be presented at anything inbetween.

[RockyIII]

Wish I would have watched this in 120fps

[LoSouL]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Wish I would have watched this in 120fps

From an article about it:

"The Ang Lee war drama opened in just two North American theaters last weekend where it played in the “as it was intended” format of 3D, 4K, 120 frames-per-second."

Only two theaters in North America. Wow.

[jabba359]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Wish I would have watched this in 120fps

You didn't miss anything. I saw it at the Hollywood Arclight at 120fps 3D. It looked awful.

Then again, I saw The Hobbit in 24fps 2D, 48fps 3D, and 24fps 3D and liked plain ol' 24/2D the best (with 24/3D in the middle and HFR 3D dead last), just to give you context on my preferences. While I didn't care much for that movie, I decided to see it three times to compare the different ways it was playing.

[Phreakuency]

Varying opinions on the frame rate aside, this disc has some absolutely amazing audio.

The concert, the shootouts etc all made you feel like you were right there.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by LoSouL

I hope we get the HFR versions on UHD.

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Unfortunately not possible due to UHD specs not conforming to 48fps.

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

It's not possible to present it at the native 48fps, but it could be converted to 60fps for the disc.

And/or could be done in 2160 50p with pitch correction for PAL countries,etc.

In any case you could watch Billy Lynn's 60 or 24 and Hobbit's 24 with motion interpolation on a 120Hz TV. I did watch some of the 3Ds like that.

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Not sure how they’d do that, it would require creating new information to fill in for the frames that simply don’t exist. In other words, motion interpolation lol

Same way they do Doctor Who discs in the US, or TVs or BD players (like Oppo) can play 50i discs in 60p HDTVs

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

And/or could be done in 2160 50p with pitch correction for PAL countries,etc.

In any case you could watch Billy Lynn's 60 or 24 and Hobbit's 24 with motion interpolation on a 120Hz TV. I did watch some of the 3Ds like that.


Same way they do Doctor Who discs in the US, or TVs or BD players (like Oppo) can play 50i discs in 60p HDTVs

Speeding it up ~4% to 50p and pitch correcting it would be the most elegant solution for sure and I'd be up for it, but the problem is ensuring 50Hz compatibility in non-PAL legacy countries as not everybody has an OPPO. If they only released it in 50Hz territories then people outside of those countries would have a shitfit that a version wasn't being made for them. Even if people said that they hated HFR, the dreaded effect of FOMO would be felt most keenly.

I have also watched the Hobbitses with the motion interpolation turned on and it worked a treat. For most 24fps 'film look' content even the mildest form of interpolation just looks soooooooooo wrong, but as the Hobbitses don't look remotely like film anyway - I don't just mean dat digital sharpness, the motion looks weirdly video-y even in 24p because they actually had to interpolate frames for that version - then I've got no qualms about emulating HFR in that case, as long as it's not chronically beset by artefacts which is usually the bane of consumer-level motion interpolation.

Thankfully certain Sony TVs have an excellent MotionFlow system that allows for black frame insertion plus mild interpolation, allowing for nicely smooth video with minimal artefacts. BFI reduces the brightness but as I don't have my SDR pumped up to insane levels anyway then I can correct for it very easily - though this would be a problem when using HDR, as there's no more luminance to give. Hmmmm.

Originally Posted by LoSouL

From an article about it:

"The Ang Lee war drama opened in just two North American theaters last weekend where it played in the “as it was intended” format of 3D, 4K, 120 frames-per-second."

Only two theaters in North America. Wow.

Yep. Even the 60fps rollout was cancelled because so many cinemas - even those who had run 48fps previously for the Hobbitses - were choking on the 60fps test DCPs that were being sent out. The final DCP was plain old 24fps as they didn't have time to create a 48fps version. In case people didn't know, the <120 versions of Billy Lynn's were created by a process that was entirely frame interpolation and frame blending, i.e. they didn't just chop out frames to make the 60 and 24 versions, they were uniquely derived from the 120fps original with the proper motion blur for each format.

[Deciazulado]

If they had chopped alternating frames it would have strobed so much in Kewl's C8 that he would have sold it

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

It's both.

Bingo. Billy Lynn's was shot on some fine 4K cameras with no pretense whatsoever of going anywhere near a 'film like' look but even so, the almost unnatural sense of sharpness that it has is also due to the motion resolution: there are literally more frames there so our eyes don't lose the picture information that's normally frittered away in 24fps when using a 180-degree shutter.

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Yeah there’s a big difference. My eyes will never accept the MotionFlow or whatever on TVs. But in theaters they adjusted to HFR in a few minutes. I really dig it I think if people are judging HFR based on the first or second Hobbit, the tech must not have been ready yet. Whatever I saw on Hobbit 3 looked great. And if Lord Cameron is really doing 60fps for the Avatar sequels, it’ll just keep getting better.

Cameron actually said that he didn't like what Peter Jackson did with HFR because it made him feel like he was looking at actors larking about on a stage. Where Cameron wants to use HFR is with action, fast pans, fast movement etc that would otherwise cause strobing/juddering in the image, in other words he was looking at using a variable frame rate system.

[bradnoyes]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Cameron actually said that he didn't like what Peter Jackson did with HFR because it made him feel like he was looking at actors larking about on a stage.

That's a great way to put it. While watching Billy Lynn I wasn't seeing the characters so much as I felt like I was seeing the actors pretend to be the characters. It's a really weird feeling. I felt the same way the one and only time I ever used motion smoothies. It was during There Will Be Blood and not even DDL's unequaled skills as actor could overcome my impression that I was just watching someone play make believe. Therein lies the terrible power of motion smoothies.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Bingo. Billy Lynn's was shot on some fine 4K cameras with no pretense whatsoever of going anywhere near a 'film like' look but even so, the almost unnatural sense of sharpness that it has is also due to the motion resolution: there are literally more frames there so our eyes don't lose the picture information that's normally frittered away in 24fps when using a 180-degree shutter.

Yes, the disclaimer "this are still images do not put that much weight in the grain /sharpness of a still image to judge the Blu-ray", the eye/brain integrates those successive pictures, and creates a sharper solid image with the incoherent random grain being ignored more. With a higher frame rate, you have more "views" of the parts that integrate in your brain, more incoherent grain or noise, plus less motion blur of the movement too, so is closer to real life (when things move in real life they don't blur, we just see them as blurs if they are too fast)

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Cameron actually said that he didn't like what Peter Jackson did with HFR because it made him feel like he was looking at actors larking about on a stage. Where Cameron wants to use HFR is with action, fast pans, fast movement etc that would otherwise cause strobing/juddering in the image, in other words he was looking at using a variable frame rate system.

If you use a 120fps format you can easily have 120, 60, 40, 30, 24, 20, 15 fps "flavors" of frame rate that intercut easily so you could choose rates as your "liveliness" vs "dreaminess" palette, or like you say, according to the motion blur speed of the action. (Imagine seeing 20 minutes of Dracula with 24fps and suddenly Lee hisssing at you as 120 fps when he burst in the room. ) interpolating into intermediate ones as needed.

[Geoff D]

Cameron said that he was looking at 60fps.

[RockyIII]

What happens if we enable motion interpolation on this movie? Can we get something similar to 120fps?

[Brahmzy]

How do we express our desire for more 60FPS UHD content?
We’ve got the spec, we’ve got the compression, we’ve got the disc capacity.
Can you imagine all of the Marvel movies or Avatar @ 60FPS?
Insane. BIG BUCKS for the studios to commit though. 3x the rendering workload.
I’m so over the ass-looking panning shots and judder. Immersion killers. They’re all clinging to things and budgets of ol’. I demand better. I demand true 60FPS.

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

What happens if we enable motion interpolation on this movie?

Tom Cruise comes to your house to tell you to turn that damn setting off!

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

Tom Cruise comes to your house to tell you to turn that damn setting off!

Friends don't let friends use motion interpolation