Coronavirus (NO POLITICAL OR SOCIAL COMMENTARY PLEASE)

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Interesting.

Sweden which is the only European country to not lock down has basically the same number of deaths as Canada which has ground to a halt and whose economy will be damaged for decades to come.

If Singapore has shown us anything, it's that today's success story could very well be tomorrow's cautionary tale. Their numbers are climbing, and this whole experiment they're playing with human lives may end up backfiring big time. Who knows how this will pan out, they might just be delaying the inevitable, and lockdown anyway if cases start exponentially growing out of control.

[Member-222782]

I hadn't realized that gloves are now also mandatory (at least in New Jersey). Many shops have a 'No Mask, No Gloves, No Service" sign on their doors. I'd decided to forego using gloves and just carry a small container of hand sanitizer since it seems to make more sense. If I need to scratch my nose, all I have to do is slather on some Purell and I'm good to go.

[BeastCreatureTrapper]

Originally Posted by Cinema84

If I need to scratch my nose, all I have to do is slather on some Purell and I'm good to go.

I have a policy: Once I step outside my front door for the day, my hands don't go anywhere near my face until I get back home, period. And I am out for a good deal of the day.

If I could somehow teach my nose to scratch itself, it would be all downhill from here on out.

[gates70]

Where I live, the grocery store I go to have measures put in place like;

-Someone at the door to wipe down the cart handles and give you a basket.
-Arrows on the floor to follow in the isles so people don't run into each other face to face.
-Seniors have a time slot from 7-8 AM just for themselves.
-You can't get in line at a cash register, you get in line with distancing between people and they let you know what cash register to go to.
-A lot of items are limited to 2 per people.

People in the US have such measures or is it a free-for-all?

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by gates70

People in the US have such measures or is it a free-for-all?

Some places in NYC have setups like that (save for the arrows, I haven't heard of that before), but like everywhere else, it will vary by store.

[Josep5349]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Interesting.

Sweden which is the only European country to not lock down has basically the same number of deaths as Canada which has ground to a halt and whose economy will be damaged for decades to come.

The number of deaths in Sweden (1937) exceeds the sum of their neighbours combined; Denmark (384), Norway (182) and Finland (149). Those neighbouring countries having implemented lockdown measures. In Sweden numbers are rising sharply, whilst in Denmark they are beginning to ease lockdown measures.

[danman227460]

They have 1/3rd of Canada's population and 40% of them live in single family homes. It isn't an apple to apple comparison.

If you wanted to make an apple to apple comparison. Look at the cases in Ontario and let me know if you think we could have survived without social distancing or a complete lock down.

Another way to look at it. Say you have 1 person in a Swedish home. The spread isn't going to be as far reaching. But if you have 4 people in an average Ontario household, those 4 can contact 4 people who spread it to another 4 then another 4. It exponentially increases how many people get sick.

Here is an interesting note on why Sweden is better equipped than most other countries:

Pomeroy pointed to some Swedish characteristics that may be helping the country deal with the current crisis. More than half of Swedish households are single-person, making social distancing easier to carry out. More people work from home than anywhere else in Europe, and everyone has access to fast Internet, which helps large chunks of the workforce stay productive away from the office.

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/tosv2.html...ctZWZmZWN0aXZl

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Interesting.

Sweden which is the only European country to not lock down has basically the same number of deaths as Canada which has ground to a halt and whose economy will be damaged for decades to come.

[Dustin44]

Originally Posted by gates70

Where I live, the grocery store I go to have measures put in place like;

-Someone at the door to wipe down the cart handles and give you a basket.
-Arrows on the floor to follow in the isles so people don't run into each other face to face.
-Seniors have a time slot from 7-8 AM just for themselves.
-You can't get in line at a cash register, you get in line with distancing between people and they let you know what cash register to go to.
-A lot of items are limited to 2 per people.

People in the US have such measures or is it a free-for-all?

Yeah, it's pretty much the same at the stores here. But it can vary a little bit depending on the store.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Josep5349

The number of deaths in Sweden (1937) exceeds the sum of their neighbours combined; Denmark (384), Norway (182) and Finland (149). Those neighbouring countries having implemented lockdown measures.

Yep, it's very sad. Sweden just gave a big F you to their elderly, and compromised population, who are mostly the ones dying here. To have over 10 times the amount of deaths as their neighbors is just deplorable. But yay, their economy is "saved".

Also, guess what, it's still hurting their economy:

Swedish Labour Board Says Unemployment at 8% as Virus Hits Economy

[MifuneFan]

Gloves are not mandatory in NJ, not sure where he heard that, but it's wrong. Customers are ordered to wear face coverings of some kind, and employers at supermarkets are ordered to provide masks, gloves, and other protections for their employees.

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Gloves are not mandatory in NJ, not sure where he heard that, but it's wrong. Employees at supermarkets are required to wear gloves, and masks, but customers are not required to wear gloves.

gotcha, didnt think so as i have a few friends in Jersey who have not mentioned that. my good friend does wear mask and gloves when going out though.

[bruceames]

What's the point in wearing gloves, other than to server as a reminder not to touch your face?

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Yep, it's very sad. Sweden just gave a big F you to their elderly, and compromised population, who are mostly the ones dying here. To have over 10 times the amount of deaths as their neighbors is just deplorable. But yay, their economy is "saved".

Also, guess what, it's still hurting their economy:

Swedish Labour Board Says Unemployment at 8% as Virus Hits Economy

Maybe, maybe not. Sweden has a herd immunity strategy. We'll see this winter when this second wave is supposed to hit.

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by Josep5349

The number of deaths in Sweden (1937) exceeds the sum of their neighbours combined; Denmark (384), Norway (182) and Finland (149). Those neighbouring countries having implemented lockdown measures. In Sweden numbers are rising sharply, whilst in Denmark they are beginning to ease lockdown measures.

You can't go by infected numbers as a basis of comparison. You go by deaths. That's a pretty easy absolute benchmark.

And the point being, so far (and they've been doing it well past the 2-3 week incubation period) their deaths are not outpacing Canada's. And they haven't ruined their economy in the process.

Not saying they're 'right', but it does beg the question if we're 'wrong'.

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Gloves are not mandatory in NJ, not sure where he heard that, but it's wrong. Customers are ordered to wear face coverings of some kind, and employers at supermarkets are ordered to provide masks, gloves, and other protections for their employees.

I didn't "hear" it anywhere - there are signs on many businesses that say gloves must be worn in order to receive service, including at my neighborhood supermarket and at least one bodega. I had to turn back, cart in tow, after I saw the sign at a Bravo market last weekend. Maybe it's just a matter of store owners assuming that gloves are mandatory or they could just be trying to cover their butts

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Cinema84

I didn't "hear" it anywhere - there are signs on many businesses that say gloves must be worn in order to receive service, including at my neighborhood supermarket and at least one bodega. I had to turn back, cart in tow, after I saw the sign at a Bravo market last weekend. Maybe it's just a matter of store owners assuming that gloves are mandatory or they could just be trying to cover their butts

Well those stores will lose plenty of business then. You made it seem like it was some general state poilicy, but there's nothing out there at all that mandates gloves to be worn by customers. I think you have a right to complain to officials if a store is refusing your business because you don't have gloves on.

This is the executive order in NJ:

Essential retail businesses that are still permitted to operate under Executive Order No. 107 (2020) must adopt the following policies:

• Limit occupancy at 50 percent of the stated maximum store capacity, if applicable, at one time;
• Establish hours of operation, wherever possible, that permit access solely to high-risk individuals, as defined by the CDC;
• Install a physical barrier, such as a shield guard, between customers and cashiers/baggers wherever feasible or otherwise ensure six feet of distance between those individuals, except at the moment of payment and/or exchange of goods;
• Require infection control practices, such as regular hand washing, coughing and sneezing etiquette, and proper tissue usage and disposal;
• Provide employees break time for repeated handwashing throughout the workday;
• Arrange for contactless pay options, pickup, and/or delivery of goods wherever feasible. Such policies shall, wherever possible, consider populations that do not have access to internet service;
• Provide sanitization materials, such as hand sanitizer and sanitizing wipes, to staff and customers;
• Require frequent sanitization of high-touch areas like restrooms, credit card machines, keypads, counters and shopping carts;
• Place conspicuous signage at entrances and throughout the store, if applicable, alerting staff and customers to the required six feet of physical distance;
• Demarcate six feet of spacing in check-out lines to demonstrate appropriate spacing for social distancing;
• Require workers and customers to wear cloth face coverings while on the premises, except where doing so would inhibit that individual’s health or where the individual is under two years of age, and require workers to wear gloves when in contact with customers or goods. Businesses must provide, at their expense, such face coverings and gloves for their employees. If a customer refuses to wear a cloth face covering for non-medical reasons and if such covering cannot be provided to the individual by the business at the point of entry, then the business must decline entry to the individual, unless if the business is providing medication, medical supplies, or food, in which case the business policy should provide alternate methods of pickup and/or delivery of such goods. Nothing in the stated policy should prevent workers or customers from wearing a surgical-grade mask or other more protective face covering if the individual is already in possession of such equipment, or if the business is otherwise required to provide such worker with more protective equipment due to the nature of the work involved. Where an individual declines to wear a face covering on store premises due to a medical condition that inhibits such usage, neither the essential retail business nor its staff shall require the individual to produce medical documentation verifying the stated condition.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Cinema84

I didn't "hear" it anywhere - there are signs on many businesses that say gloves must be worn in order to receive service, including at my neighborhood supermarket and at least one bodega. I had to turn back, cart in tow, after I saw the sign at a Bravo market last weekend. Maybe it's just a matter of store owners assuming that gloves are mandatory or they could just be trying to cover their butts

I got a box of those cheap oversized clear gloves in my truck. I just hate putting on tight fitting gloves and these go on and off in half a second. Haven't seen any business requiring them to enter, although a customer of mine requested that I wear gloves (and a mask) when I visited their home yesterday to do a field measure.

[bruceames]

Interesting that NJ (and I assume NY as well?) requires a face covering for everyone aged 2 and up, while here in the SF Bay Area it's ages 13 and up.

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Interesting that NJ (and I assume NY as well?) requires a face covering for everyone aged 2 and up, while here in the SF Bay Area it's ages 13 and up.

what is more interesting, is, why would you be bringing their children anywhere that requires a face mask?

[Batman1980]

People's stupidity doesn't just apply to their lack of regard for their own safety but their children's as well.