Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Meh, I'll take a silent moment over an anguished, unnecessary verbal cry. Sometimes less is more. Luke's "NO!" is ok, Vader's in Ep. III is terrible, and the less said about the one added to Ep. VI, the better.

I LOVE that moment in Star Wars, you can read so much on his face that you don't need some dreadfully cheesy exclamation point. Luke's "NOoooooOOoooo..nooooOOOooohhh!" in Empire cracks me the **** up, always has done. Vader's one in Ep III really is Calculon levels of cheesy, yet it kinda fits the overblown Frankenstein vibe of the scene - but the scene itself should never have been played that way to begin with. And yes, the one in Jedi is the reason why I don't own that film on Blu-ray, man I hate that change so much.

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Here's a question...when Hayden is 45 or thereabouts, because of the way that final Vader scene in Jedi is shot, it would be rather simple to reshoot Shaw's footage and replace him with Hayden -- even without digital tools. Would you folks be down with that?

I've said it before that I've got no problem with the force ghost change on a conceptual level, but the execution of it is breathtakingly shonky, and that's what worries me with replacing Shaw outright in the unmasking scene: whether it can be carried off with anything like the warmth and feeling that Shaw's performance elicits.

I'd still like to see Hayden get another crack at the force ghost scene at least. Doesn't have to be older there necessarily, as the point is that he's reverted back to his form before he was lost to the dark side. People always counter that with "hasn't he just come back from the dark side before dying in Luke's arms?"; well, yeah, but it's more of a quick stopover before popping his clogs and besides, he's a frickin' ghost, he can appear in whatever form he chooses. That said, I LOVE the concept art done for TFA which shows his force ghost alternating between Anakin and Vader.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by captveg

The biggest issue with putting Hayden in there is that they didn't even bother to properly shoot it. They just used trims from the PT production. At least with McDiarmid in ESB they actually shot the scene.

Correct on both counts, but seeing as McDiarmid's performance is so laid-back it's practically horizontal (IMO) I'm not sure him actually shooting the scene made all that much difference. He's neither as gloriously sarcastic as his ROTJ persona nor as downright creepy as monkey-eyes-lady-voiced-by-Clive-Revill. He's just bleh.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Oh, sorry -- I wasn't clear. I meant the scene where Luke removes Vader's mask and helmet..."Now, go, my son. Leave me.", etc...reshoot *that* with Hayden. It's all OTS and close-ups, you could do it very easily.

Ohh actually yeah that's not a bad idea, but since I hate the vast majority of ROTJ changes, I'd still just stick with the original version so it's not like I'd ever actually watch it lol

Wish there was some special feature to "Build your own version" of each OT movie, so we can all just cherry pick what we like and leave out what we hate.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Ohh actually yeah that's not a bad idea, but since I hate the vast majority of ROTJ changes, I'd still just stick with the original version.

Well, as I remarked w/ref to remixed audio in the Terminator thread: if changes and fixes are made with taste and restraint and seek to preserve the essence of what was already there then I'm very much open to them. But when stuff is done as cack-handedly as most of ROTJ's SE alterations were then it simply becomes a distracting bodge-job, like having misshapen plastic tits on an otherwise attractive lady. I'm not averse to plastic tits at all, but some boob jobs are vastly better than others. In plastic surgery terms Star Wars' most recent changes look like the result of some unlicensed sawbones operating in a sweaty Tijuana backroom, they're so ****ing amateurish it's unreal.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Well, as I remarked w/ref to remixed audio in the Terminator thread: if changes and fixes are made with taste and restraint and seek to preserve the essence of what was already there then I'm very much open to them. But when stuff is done as cack-handedly as most of ROTJ's SE alterations were then it simply becomes a distracting bodge-job, like having misshapen plastic tits on an otherwise attractive lady. I'm not averse to plastic tits at all, but some boob jobs are vastly better than others. In plastic surgery terms Star Wars' most recent changes look like the result of some unlicensed sawbones operating in a sweaty Tijuana backroom, they're so ****ing amateurish it's unreal.

Don't hold back, Geoff. lol...

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

I never knew that. They kept that quiet in the run-up to the film. Such was the retro-attitude of the makers of that movie, I was expecting it to be silent and black and white when I went the pictures to see it.

There was a video on YouTube shortly before TFA came out that had an a voice over from Abrams, I think from comic con, talking about how much on location shooting they were doing, and using practical effects and aliens, but showing video from location shooting for Phantom Menace (Tatooine, Naboo) and green screen shots for TFA, and physical aliens from the prequels contrasted with cg shots from TFA. Ironic.

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

You're assuming that the age of an actor is supposed to reflect the age of the character the actor is playing. There's no reason Shaw's Anakin at the end of ROTJ can't be 45, despite the actor's age at the time.

I always just chalked that up to the statement that using the dark side accelerates your aging. Except that rots kind of changed that when the emperor was "aged" from the reflected force lightning.

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Lava also gives you an English accent.

It was from spending time around imperial officers and the emperor who all had British Accents. I was in Manhatten for a few days and I was talking like a New Yorker, lol.

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by Jakdonark

I always just chalked that up to the statement that using the dark side accelerates your aging.

I don't remember that statement in any of the movies.

[Arch Stanton]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Here's a question...when Hayden is 45 or thereabouts, because of the way that final Vader scene in Jedi is shot, it would be rather simple to reshoot Shaw's footage and replace him with Hayden -- even without digital tools. Would you folks be down with that?

By all means produce alternate versions for those who care enough, but the original version should always be preserved and available at the same level of quality.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by Jakdonark

Except that rots kind of changed that

...or did it?

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

The idea of his "noooo" doesn't bother me as much as the way Hamill performed it The idea makes sense - he's been fighting against this villain and now he finds out he's his son? Wouldn't you scream "noooooo" if you found out that Osama Bin Laden was your father? I'd scream a much louder "nooooooo" than Luke did if I found out Trump was my father.

I had a bigger problem with Luke's almost non-reaction to the murder of his Aunt and Uncle. A "noooooo" would have worked there. It was almost like, "okay, they're done...guess I will go with you." When Anakin's mother died, at least you could see and feel his anger and rage.

My explanation would be that when he realized the Stormtroopers probably went to his farm he already suspected they were dead, so when he got there and confirmed it, he was mentally prepared for what he saw. Contrast that with the instant unexpected shock of seeing Ben killed before your eyes, or the monster who murdered your father suddenly proclaiming to be your father.

You have an old dog who is sick that you have to put down, or the power goes off just as your favorite team is about to score a game winning goal. Which situation do you scream "Noooo!" at?

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

I don't remember that statement in any of the movies.

I don't remember the exact source, Not in the movies, but maybe the novelization or encyclopedia or something, but the Emperor was described as being old and decrepit from using the dark side so much.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

There's been some talk about TPM feeling the most like the OT Star Wars films, and people saying in response saying, yeah, it feels like that because it was the only prequel film shot on film. But it isn't just that George shot II and III digitally, it was also the lack of real world location shooting. By the time RotS rolled around, it was all blue and green screen shooting with no real location shooting. Which is why It surprises me that even many people that generally hate the prequels, like RotS best, and consider it a great connection to ANH.

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Here's a question...when Hayden is 45 or thereabouts, because of the way that final Vader scene in Jedi is shot, it would be rather simple to reshoot Shaw's footage and replace him with Hayden -- even without digital tools. Would you folks be down with that?

If they released the UOT, I wouldn't care if they replaced Shaw with a muppet and had him wheeze out "No. Nooooooooo!" after saying "Now go, my son."

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

If they released the UOT, I wouldn't care if they replaced Shaw with a muppet and had him wheeze out "No. Nooooooooo!" after saying "Now go, my son."

Give me the UOT and they can add the Force ghost of Salacius Crumb to the end of Jedi.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

You're assuming that the age of an actor is supposed to reflect the age of the character the actor is playing. There's no reason Shaw's Anakin at the end of ROTJ can't be 45, despite the actor's age at the time.

Shaw looks well over 45 at ROTJ. Sure you can assume he's younger than the actor's age, but at best you can say he's 60. And that's still well over 45.

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

Maybe not 77, but certainly 60-65, no? There's no way the guy in the suit at the end of Jedi was a 45-year-old man, burns and scars notwithstanding.

Yep.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by captveg

The biggest issue with putting Hayden in there is that they didn't even bother to properly shoot it. They just used trims from the PT production. At least with McDiarmid in ESB they actually shot the scene.

No, I think they actually got Hayden in and filmed him with the express intention that this would replace the ghost at the end of ROTJ. I stress, I think. My source would be J.W. Rinzler's Making Of book - I know for certain it mentions in that same book how they got Ian McDiarmid in to purposely shoot his scene for TESB to replace the old woman with the monkey eyes (!).

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Correct on both counts, but seeing as McDiarmid's performance is so laid-back it's practically horizontal (IMO) I'm not sure him actually shooting the scene made all that much difference. He's neither as gloriously sarcastic as his ROTJ persona nor as downright creepy as monkey-eyes-lady-voiced-by-Clive-Revill. He's just bleh.

The Emperor is actually tanked up on opioids in that scene, did you not know? Yeah, apparently he'd developed a bit of a habit for painkillers along with his other less savoury predilections. He wasn't proud of it, which is why it's a little known fact. Shame, really but there you go. Whatever gets you through the night and all that.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Wish there was some special feature to "Build your own version" of each OT movie, so we can all just cherry pick what we like and leave out what we hate.

An excellent idea. My daughter picked TESB on Blu-ray as last night's Saturday night film and, no matter how many time's I've watched it, I can still not accept the clumsy insert of Vader's arrival on his star destroyer (in reality an outtake of Vader arriving on the Death Star in ROTJ) while the TIEs are pursuing the Falcon.

It ruins the flow and is just unnecessary. Indeed, the whole "Alert my start destroyer to prepare for my arrival" schtick is unecessary but I could live with that and the beauty shot of the shuttle leaving Cloud City because they don't actually alter the flow of the film (even though the snarling "Bring my shuttle" will always be a superior line). But that insert of his actual arrival is as intrusive as a commercial break.