HDR Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

If we end up with giant LED screens in all cinemas then it may come to pass that the frame rate goes up along with it, but for now I wouldn't worry about it.

Haven’t some cinemas already began this process though?

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Haven’t some cinemas already began this process though?

Yes but it should be about 20 years from "some cinemas" to "all cinemas".

Otherwise we'd have a reason to panic if a few cinemas started installing Smelly-vision.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It plays into what Penton has been mentioning on and off for a good long while: with greater dynamic range comes greater strobing with conventional 24fps playback, becoming ever more noticeable as the screens increase in size - it's certainly something I had to get used to on my ZD9. One wonders what refresh rate the cinema LED screens actually run at, conventional 24p digital cinema runs at 48Hz or 72Hz (mimicking the double or triple-bladed shutters of yore) but with these being giant TV screens are they 120Hz or something? We saw the same concerns over some 8K demo or other that people were dribbling over recently too, there's a reason why High Frame Rate is a big part of the next phase of UHD: it's not just for the sake of it, as it may well become a necessity with certain content.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Definitely . The principle(s), as directed to fellow member ray0414 for further study, e.g. from over a year ago, see the paragraph titled “Effects of Luminance and Screen Size on Flicker Perception”- https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post13175611

Specifically to the now bolded ^, the Ferry-Porter and Granit-Harper laws. Most recently, at the last NAB when viewing Sony’s Crystal LED some of the lay press noted the non-smooth motion artifact component of temporal variation - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post14959219

[Penton-Man]

Steed, PaulGo et al…..
http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/18/tech...ase/index.html

[Penton-Man]

mrtickleuk, in your neck of the woods (well, southeast)…..https://britishcinematographer.co.uk...m-renaissance/

[Penton-Man]

DisplayCalNoob, reminder - http://www.displayweek.org/
As I noted before, Dolby Laboratories will be well represented.

[Penton-Man]

http://www.cinegearexpo.com/la-expo-overview
Reminder: 'Registration is free until midnight, May 26, 2018 at 11:59pm Pacific time. After that time, a $30.00 CASH admission fee will apply....' http://www.cinegearexpo.com/la-expo-...e-registration

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Steed, PaulGo et al…..
http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/18/tech...ase/index.html

How transferable is this technology to projection technology such as movie theaters or home projection units?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Steed, PaulGo et al…..
http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/18/tech...ase/index.html

Thanks, so it’s going to be modular with the option of attachable lenses etc.. interesting. The holographic side sounds gimmicky though, can’t see it taking off.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Yes but it should be about 20 years from "some cinemas" to "all cinemas".

Otherwise we'd have a reason to panic if a few cinemas started installing Smelly-vision.

I will be 63 by then! Maybe I can relax a little bit until then. The thought of HFR makes want to barf. I thought it was bloody awful when I sampled it.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The thought of HFR makes want to barf. I thought it was bloody awful when I sampled it.

Right there with you, my friend. I think it is awful to look at too when I watched The Hobbit in HFR in the cinema. It completely took me out of the movie, even the 3D couldn't save it.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by DJR662

Right there with you, my friend. I think it is awful to look at too when I watched The Hobbit in HFR in the cinema. It completely took me out of the movie, even the 3D couldn't save it.

My friend put on Billy Lynn for me a while back. It was horrible. See, that’s not progress to me, not at all. My good friend Penton Man champions it for sports and I totally get that, but not for film.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

My friend put on Billy Lynn for me a while back. It was horrible. See, that’s not progress to me, not at all. My good friend Penton Man champions it for sports and I totally get that, but not for film.

I wouldn't want to watch Billy Lynn for its framerate alone. Call me old fashioned but movie content should be limited to 24p, some things should just remain the same. If that means no 8K and/or glasses free 3D, then so be it...

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by DJR662

Right there with you, my friend. I think it is awful to look at too when I watched The Hobbit in HFR in the cinema. It completely took me out of the movie, even the 3D couldn't save it.

Agreed. Movie critic Mark Kermode puts it a very good way - "it's like watching rehearsal footage". We're used to the DVD extras being smooth video 50/60fps and looking distinctly different from the dreamy 24Hz look of a projected movie. Once you take away the dreamy 24Hz look that we've had for decades and decades, you've lost something, not gained something. Suspension of disbelief is roughly pushed aside by something which says "this is more real so you'll believe it more". But it's not, it's make-believe, and we want it to look different from what is real for a very good reason! We want and need the dreamy 24Hz look that we know and love and I will resist any frame-rate change with every bone in my body.

For sport, yes. For movies and drama, NO NO NO.

[51dueller]

But for those that are sensitive to motion resolution 24 fps at times just isn't enough. I only have 120hz tvs because I hate telecine judder and even normal judder on panning shots takes me out of the movie. 3D movies make it worse, in fast action scenes it makes me feel like I'm watching a slide show. The Hobbit movies were the only 3D movies I enjoyed.

I also dislike tvs auto motion settings as that makes it look unnatural. Video games tend to run at 30 or 60 fps and virtual reality needs 90 fps so it won't cause nausea.

People readily accepted ultra high resolution, high dynamic range, 11 channel atmos audio but a higher frame rate is not acceptable.

Its not like you hear people complaining about frame rate when you watch live actors on a stage performing. Shakespeare would look so much better in 24 fps.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Definitely . The principle, as directed to fellow member ray0414 for further study, e.g. from over a year ago, see the paragraph titled “Effects of Luminance and Screen Size on Flicker Perception”- https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post13175611

P.S.
With regards to restoring function of the retina, giving a well earned shout out to Dr. Tsang and his colleagues at Columbia…. https://www.drugtargetreview.com/new...inal-function/ (their study recently published in a peer reviewed journal)

nobody? impressed at the accomplishment noted in the P.S.^..... well then, I’ll spare folks the value of the accomplishment toward vision restoration with the new gene therapy drug Luxturna (https://luxturna.com/?gclid=EAIaIQob...SAAEgI3RfD_BwE)

except to say that it came in under the price expected by Wall Street - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/03/spar...ut-850000.html ($850,000).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

How transferable is this technology to projection technology such as movie theaters or home projection units?

I wouldn’t hold your breath, although promising at the phone platform level, even there needs much more work, start here - http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...=1#post1805859 , Jim J. chimes in later to the criticisms.

Holos, true 3D or not aside, most industry buzz related to innovative theatrical 3D is with the Samsung Onyx 3D….

Samsung Onyx: Cinema LED Signage Showcase event at Arena cinemas Zurich - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

most industry buzz

is also about who’s next to be cleaning out their desks…. http://variety.com/2018/biz/news/son...ve-1202814305/
as it seems the only division immune to such cuts is Sony Corp. of America.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I wouldn't want to watch Billy Lynn for its framerate alone. Call me old fashioned but movie content should be limited to 24p, some things should just remain the same. If that means no 8K and/or glasses free 3D, then so be it...

It was so odd. One one side, the picture was stunning, on the other my brain was telling me that the 4K was ruined by this annoying fast motion. It wasn’t film, that’s for sure.

[Steedeel]

Right, I’m dropping out of the discussion for now. This stuff really winds me up.