HDR Discussion Thread

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I was thinking more of two players from a different brand hooked up to the same TV and then let them play the exact same disc based content.

Depending on the TV, whether it’s calibrated, lighting condition etc.

In the dark is the easiest to tell between one player to another. Sometimes it’s subtle, sometimes it’s significant, and in the case os Samsung UHd player, it’s jarring (even in bright lighting condition)

[Pyoko]

From that HPA article:

About 18 months later, the company came out with a proprietary automated post pipeline that leverages industry tools such as Blackmagic Design Resolve. “Using the client’s original Color Timed Material (CTM) we take that master material and put it through our process. HDR Express,” says colorist Judy.

So basically what you get with the HDR converter on the TV, yay... BBC's Sherlock seems to have been converted with this kind of method. You can still get a decent HDR effect, but it really hurts seeing huge patches of clipped HDR-y whites with no highlight information, when you know it could have been so much better.

Also the article seems to imply that shooting in ProRes on the Alexa is SDR, and while I wasn't around in the earliest days, the only time I can remember working on such SDR material was when they accidentally used the wrong camera setting, otherwise everything I've seen has always been full dynamic range/WCG Log data. This is why reusing and converting the grading project to an HDR workflow would be the best middle ground, but that would be practically impossible for an external studio to do like that.

[DJR662]

SFunny two persons already mentioned Samsung (and not in a positive way ).

I had someone come over with the Samsung K8500 UHD player a couple of years ago, which we hooked up to my previous living room TV (Sony X940D). I didn't take a look at the settings on the player nor did I change anything, but the picture was incredibly noise and overly sharp.

I'm still wondering whether this is something that is typical of Samsung players, or that it was just some excessive sharpening tool that needed to be turned off...

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Some people are more sensitive than others, especially when it became second nature to them to see the difference. My problem is that there are so many keyboard warriors that simply claim that all players are the same, yet many of them don’t even know where to look and what to look. Making things worse, usually this same group of people are the ones the most vocal claiming that false statement.

My experience with this has always been the exact opposite. Differences of this nature are certainly there but they're usually tiny compared all the other components and potential points of failure that make up the final image. You get plenty of people gushing over the output or upscaling on this or that Oppo or TV or other piece of equipment, but the same people cannot tell that a disc has been DNR'd to death, can't see obvious compression issues, and can't see sharpening artifacts? I just don't buy it.

[sapiendut]

Yes, of course the difference is smaller. But your small difference can mean a big difference to me. If the difference is THAT huge, then there must be an error somewhere. If the difference is noticeable at all, isn’t it worth buying? After all, we want the best.

Regardless, the difference is there, and my posts are targeted to those who claim “all players are the same”. No, they are not the same. Whether one finds the difference is worth upgrading or not is a different matter and highly subjective, but don’t go around spewing ignorance stating that there is no difference.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Exactly. Turning on 4:4:4 'enhanced' modes is just so that the HDMI can accept the higher bandwidth signals in the first place.

HDMI 2.1 has much higher bandwidth and DSC support, so I thinking that, with this level of compression support for bit depth up to 16 bit and support for native 4:4:4 and 4:2:0. Having to turn 4:4:4 on will not be necessary, anymore.....plug and play.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Yes, of course the difference is smaller. But your small difference can mean a big difference to me. If the difference is THAT huge, then there must be an error somewhere. If the difference is noticeable at all, isn’t it worth buying? After all, we want the best.

Regardless, the difference is there, and my posts are targeted to those who claim “all players are the same”. No, they are not the same. Whether one finds the difference is worth upgrading or not is a different matter and highly subjective, but don’t go around spewing ignorance stating that there is no difference.

Okay, so let me ask you straight up then:

Did you see a "significant" difference in 1080p and 4K picture quality between either the Sony X800, X800M2, X1000ES or X1100ES when compared to the Panasonic UB900, 420, 820 or 9000 when they're connected to the same display playing the exact same disc based content?

[sapiendut]

To my eyes, and several other owners of both, yes. Significant. Not jarring, but significant. I used to own the 800, reviewed the 800m2, compared directly between 1000 vs 820. Yes, it’s more significant in certain movies, less significant in certain movies, depending on the colour palette, at times there is zero difference too.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

To my eyes, and several other owners of both, yes. Significant. Not jarring, but significant. I used to own the 800, reviewed the 800m2, compared directly between 1000 vs 820. Yes, it’s more significant in certain movies, less significant in certain movies, depending on the colour palette, at times there is zero difference too.

So in other words, it really depends on the movie/disc?

Could you name a couple of specific titles then, preferably 1080p material? For example, I have two Blu-ray copies of BvS, Justice League, Hellboy II, Hansel & Gretel, Resident Evil Afterlife etc so I could easily compare them while they play in both the Sony X800 and Panasonic UB820 at the same time connected to a calibrated 75Z9D? Any specific picture settings in either player I need to look at too perhaps?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

JThis is for technical merits,

Preorder now - https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Game-...lu-ray/240117/

However, not to expect craft services augmentation like in the original - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post16384232

[Penton-Man]

Will do this month's tally in a moment using the figure of 2,691,524 views which we hit at 8:52 A.M. today.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

DSC primarily enables more efficient compression efficiency

DisplayPort 1.4 and HDMI 2.0 used 8b/10b encoding which is only 80% efficient (20% overhead). HDMI 2.1 went to 16b/18b, lowering overhead to around 11%. DisplayPort 2.0 smashes this with 128/132b encoding for a mere 3% overhead. That means 97% of the signal is usable data.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

200,000 views in 30 days (couple thou

more)
A rather robust month, this. Viewership tally for this thread for the month of June as of 8:52 A.M. (Pacific Time) on June 30th as compared to about same time last month -

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=9696

2,691,524
- 2,488,226
------------------------------
203,298 views

Congrats to all the viewers and contributors ->
https://forum.blu-ray.com/misc.php?d...osted&t=276605

[PaulGo]

Off topic but important information on Chrome browser.

Goodbye, Chrome: Google’s web browser has become spy software


Our latest privacy experiment found Chrome ushered more than 11,000 tracker cookies into our browser — in a single week. Here’s why Firefox is better.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...&noredirect=on

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by DJR662

So in other words, it really depends on the movie/disc?

Could you name a couple of specific titles then, preferably 1080p material? For example, I have two Blu-ray copies of BvS, Justice League, Hellboy II, Hansel & Gretel, Resident Evil Afterlife etc so I could easily compare them while they play in both the Sony X800 and Panasonic UB820 at the same time connected to a calibrated 75Z9D? Any specific picture settings in either player I need to look at too perhaps?

The difference is already there. How much you can see is disc dependent. For something that is garish, stylized and unnatural looking to begin with such as animation or low-grade (by intention of otherwise), it’s not that easy.

Hansel and Gretel in certain scenes you can see but unless you A/B you can’t see much. It’s there and easy to tell when you A/B. Especially the outdoor mid-tones. Showman is easy to see the difference. Many natural daytime scenes in Planet Earth 2 are quite easy to tell, it has more natural looking “pop” as opposed to slight “haze” (I see the hazier look after seeing the same scene on the 820 on a calibrated Samsung The Frame, especially the grass).

Differences are easier to see in UHD discs than HD (pergaps because of the colourspace? I’m just guessing here)

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by DJR662

SFunny two persons already mentioned Samsung (and not in a positive way ).

I had someone come over with the Samsung K8500 UHD player a couple of years ago, which we hooked up to my previous living room TV (Sony X940D). I didn't take a look at the settings on the player nor did I change anything, but the picture was incredibly noise and overly sharp.

I'm still wondering whether this is something that is typical of Samsung players, or that it was just some excessive sharpening tool that needed to be turned off...

There is quite severe over sharpening on the Samsung players that can’t be turned off

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by DJR662

But how much will the difference be and will you be able to tell by eye when watching real world content in motion? That's what this is really about IMO.

I understand that there might be differences between players when throwing test patterns at them. The thing I'm having a problem with, is when people say there is a significant difference in picture quality that is easily noticable when watching a BD and/or UHD.

If you are talking about the Oppo vs the Panasonic, the difference is slight at best, especially when you are talking about video in motion. The nice thing about having tests like the one on Stacey's discs is it allows you to see how good or bad something really is. If you test 4 players and all are very good, great! But you may find that 3 are really good and 1 is really bad. But let's say that bad one is the one you really want because it has feature x and y that the other 3 don't. But you could test and see if you output something else and let the display do the conversion, you may get the same results, or better, than the other 3.

Videophiles do like to split hairs but that also comes down to wanting to spend their money on the equipment that gives them the best possible picture with the least amount of compromise. Other people are driven by price and will sacrifice performance for it (and may not know or care about what performance they are giving away in the first place). The AV industry caters to just about every type of consumer.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Preorder now - https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Game-...lu-ray/240117/

That's a fair price.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Will do this month's tally in a moment using the figure of 2,691,524 views which we hit at 8:52 A.M. today.

@ 9:00 PM (Pacific) ... if you go by last month.

"For the record on May 31st at 9 P.M., there were 2,493,465 views for this thread per a fellow member of this forum who prefers to remain anonymous and merits a thank you for his accurate information. So, we’ll go with that figure when we total the views for the month of June….."

Right now: 2,692,888 views (11:00 AM - Pacific Time)

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

more)
A rather robust month, this. Viewership tally for this thread for the month of June as of 8:52 A.M. (Pacific Time) on June 30th as compared to about same time last month -

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=9696

2,691,524
- 2,488,226
------------------------------
203,298 views

Congrats to all the viewers and contributors ->
https://forum.blu-ray.com/misc.php?d...osted&t=276605

I remember 8,000 views a day. I also remember 30,000 views in just two days, in February.
June was a good month on average; yes over 200,000 views.

HDR

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

.....I remember 8,000 views a day. I also remember 30,000 views in just two days, in February.

indeed, busy month –
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y#post16105908

[LordoftheRings]

• https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=8395

• https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=8519