The Anime Blu-ray Video Quality Thread - Page 119 - Blu-ray Forum

professorwho · 09-19-2018, 04:43 PM

The FUNi version is from a technical perspective worse than the UK set. The Italian release is the best, is in the proper interlaced fashion, and has the most detail- plus highest Bitrate. mp3dom is a god.

If you like a worse looking disc, fine. But you’re wrong in saying it isn’t a blunder- because it actually is.

dlb99 · 09-20-2018, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by professorwho

If you like a worse looking disc, fine. But you’re wrong in saying it isn’t a blunder- because it actually is.

In your world sure.

In the real world it is not a blundered release, and in some respect the Funimation Cowboy Bebop is superior to the UK set. The UK is interlaced, with 3:2 pulldown judder and has washed out colors. In other respects the UK is superior such as grain and line-art detailing.

Neither set is blundered. Stop being dramatic. From real world viewing distances both sets are reasonable, though not perfect. I think you are equating not perfect as being blundered, which is a definition I disagree with.

A blundered release, in my opinion, has egregious and obvious errors such as: Stein's Gate banding, or Serial Experiments Lain elevated blacks or Penguindrum interlace errors.

We agree to disagree. Let's move on.

NLScavenger · 09-20-2018, 06:21 AM

I think Bebop is worse than the above examples since they have actually tampered with the master. What they did was take a perfectly fine master that wasn’t even that very grainy or dirty to begin with and:

1 ) Filtered/denoised it. This process erased the film grain and details (shadow detail in particular), while also also adding smearing artifacts.
2 ) IVTC. Doesn’t affect the film parts but does affect the SD parts.
3 ) Inserted a totally unconvincing fake film grain plate to compensate for the erased film grain.
4 ) Used a poor compression algorithm that does not preserve low luma detail very well. Unfortunately, Cowboy Bebop has a lot of low luma detail.

There’s that old saying that applies here: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”.

Funimation got cocky and thought that they could be like Lowry Digital: the film processing/post-production company that among others handled the Blu-ray restoration of James Cameron’s ALIENS.

ALIENS also underwent a denoise/regrain process, but color grading issues and minor smearing artifacts aside, the end result was far more refined and convincing than Cowboy Bebop. ALIENS also didn't suffer from poor compression.

In the case of ALIENS it is somewhat understandable why Lowry did their denoising/regraining shtick; anyone who had the good fortune of seeing ALIENS projected from film prints in recent years can attest to the fact that it’s a grainy movie, even on the 70mm prints. However, Cowboy Bebop is nothing like ALIENS and there's absolutely no justification for what Funimation did.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that in the case of Steins;gate, Lain, Psycho-Pass, or just about any other Funi BD with elevated blacks and banding, you could still mitigate those problems to a certain extent by changing the player settings, running a debanding filter, etc. No such fix is possible for Cowboy Bebop. Can't restore the erased detail, original film grain, the frames that were lost because of the IVTC.

Except for the lost frames, I can notice the problems of Funi's Bebop from normal viewing distances (32inch tv, 6 feet away) and it looks bad.

Kyle15 · 09-20-2018, 05:00 PM

Any word yet on Mind Game?

Lambadelta · 09-20-2018, 10:42 PM

anyone who's able to take screencaps received Tanya yet?

E_I · 09-21-2018, 12:43 AM

I have the BDinfo for Aria season 1 (1st disc): The reports are for the video tracks, not the whole disc (report would be too long for this forum).

Disc Title: ARIAS1BD1
Disc Size: 23,865,280,831 bytes
Protection: AACS
BDInfo: 0.7.4.0

********************
PLAYLIST: 00001.MPLS
********************

<--- BEGIN FORUMS PASTE --->

Code:

                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00001.MPLS                                                      AVC     0:24:23 4,401,242,112   23,865,280,831  24.06   14.65   LPCM 2.0 1536Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)          LPCM 5.1 4608Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)

Code:

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     ARIAS1BD1
Disc Size:      23,865,280,831 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BDInfo:         0.7.4.0

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00001.MPLS
Length:                 0:24:23.495 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   4,401,242,112 bytes
Total Bitrate:          24.06 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        14646 kbps          1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
LPCM Audio                      English         1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz /  1536 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      English         4608 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz /  4608 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      Japanese        1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz /  1536 kbps / 16-bit

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         5.383 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           English         41.474 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           English         41.463 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00002.M2TS      0:00:00.000     0:24:23.495     4,401,242,112   24,059          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:01:24.150     14,872 kbps     47,332 kbps     00:00:00.967    22,280 kbps     00:00:00.934    18,123 kbps     00:00:00.934    62,003 bytes    483,311 bytes   00:00:01.001    
2               0:01:24.150     0:02:25.411     14,657 kbps     21,770 kbps     00:02:30.183    19,014 kbps     00:02:29.415    18,078 kbps     00:02:23.510    61,132 bytes    279,352 bytes   00:02:26.746    
3               0:03:49.562     0:08:10.923     14,754 kbps     23,905 kbps     00:04:45.852    21,317 kbps     00:04:23.062    18,941 kbps     00:04:19.058    61,537 bytes    342,282 bytes   00:10:05.271    
4               0:12:00.486     0:10:46.045     14,722 kbps     25,721 kbps     00:17:40.592    22,958 kbps     00:17:37.956    19,011 kbps     00:14:25.664    61,402 bytes    323,564 bytes   00:13:24.236    
5               0:22:46.531     0:01:20.947     12,916 kbps     22,835 kbps     00:23:51.029    19,886 kbps     00:23:48.960    19,050 kbps     00:23:49.094    53,870 bytes    335,418 bytes   00:23:24.369    
6               0:24:07.479     0:00:15.015     16,773 kbps     22,559 kbps     00:24:09.948    18,920 kbps     00:24:17.389    17,255 kbps     00:24:12.384    69,958 bytes    256,573 bytes   00:24:19.658    
7               0:24:22.494     0:00:01.000     74 kbps         0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    321 bytes       970 bytes       00:24:22.661    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00002.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     1463.429                14,647                  2,679,281,630   14,586,970      
00002.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           1463.429                1,542                   282,156,052     1,756,158       
00002.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           1463.429                4,615                   844,146,800     4,683,200       
00002.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x80            LPCM            jpn (Japanese)          1463.429                1,542                   282,156,052     1,756,158       
00002.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.429                5                       984,786         5,501           
00002.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.429                41                      7,587,113       43,063          
00002.M2TS      4610 (0x1202)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.429                41                      7,585,097       43,047

<---- END FORUMS PASTE ---->

QUICK SUMMARY:

Disc Title: ARIAS1BD1
Disc Size: 23,865,280,831 bytes
Protection: AACS
Playlist: 00001.MPLS
Size: 4,401,242,112 bytes
Length: 0:24:23.495
Total Bitrate: 24.06 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 14646 kbps / 1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
Audio: English / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
Audio: English / LPCM Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 4608 kbps / 16-bit
Audio: Japanese / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
Subtitle: English / 5.383 kbps
Subtitle: English / 41.474 kbps
Subtitle: English / 41.463 kbps

********************
PLAYLIST: 00002.MPLS
********************

<--- BEGIN FORUMS PASTE --->

Code:

                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00002.MPLS                                                      AVC     0:24:23 4,178,724,864   23,865,280,831  22.84   13.46   LPCM 2.0 1536Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)          LPCM 5.1 4608Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)

Code:

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     ARIAS1BD1
Disc Size:      23,865,280,831 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BDInfo:         0.7.4.0

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00002.MPLS
Length:                 0:24:23.495 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   4,178,724,864 bytes
Total Bitrate:          22.84 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        13457 kbps          1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
LPCM Audio                      English         1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz /  1536 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      English         4608 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz /  4608 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      Japanese        1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz /  1536 kbps / 16-bit

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         5.274 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           English         52.709 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           English         52.698 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00004.M2TS      0:00:00.000     0:24:23.495     4,178,724,864   22,842          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:01:07.267     13,549 kbps     40,388 kbps     00:00:00.967    19,846 kbps     00:00:00.967    16,162 kbps     00:00:00.967    56,483 bytes    629,989 bytes   00:00:01.001    
2               0:01:07.267     0:01:48.041     13,601 kbps     18,108 kbps     00:01:46.906    16,750 kbps     00:01:45.905    15,801 kbps     00:01:44.704    56,729 bytes    254,882 bytes   00:01:44.070    
3               0:02:55.308     0:08:17.196     13,517 kbps     22,310 kbps     00:06:08.534    20,236 kbps     00:06:07.033    18,171 kbps     00:06:04.597    56,375 bytes    257,916 bytes   00:04:34.440    
4               0:11:12.505     0:11:34.026     13,546 kbps     25,534 kbps     00:16:48.474    19,791 kbps     00:17:51.904    17,928 kbps     00:17:51.737    56,500 bytes    294,578 bytes   00:17:10.095    
5               0:22:46.531     0:01:20.947     11,950 kbps     20,735 kbps     00:23:52.197    18,608 kbps     00:23:49.127    17,614 kbps     00:23:49.361    49,839 bytes    326,302 bytes   00:23:24.403    
6               0:24:07.479     0:00:15.015     14,912 kbps     19,733 kbps     00:24:15.787    17,235 kbps     00:24:14.886    15,529 kbps     00:24:11.750    62,196 bytes    246,875 bytes   00:24:19.858    
7               0:24:22.494     0:00:01.000     71 kbps         0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    307 bytes       898 bytes       00:24:22.527    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00004.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     1463.429                13,458                  2,461,764,037   13,404,937      
00004.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           1463.429                1,542                   282,156,052     1,756,158       
00004.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           1463.429                4,615                   844,146,800     4,683,200       
00004.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x80            LPCM            jpn (Japanese)          1463.429                1,542                   282,156,052     1,756,158       
00004.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.429                5                       964,860         5,379           
00004.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.429                53                      9,642,356       54,671          
00004.M2TS      4610 (0x1202)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.429                53                      9,640,341       54,653

<---- END FORUMS PASTE ---->

QUICK SUMMARY:

Disc Title: ARIAS1BD1
Disc Size: 23,865,280,831 bytes
Protection: AACS
Playlist: 00002.MPLS
Size: 4,178,724,864 bytes
Length: 0:24:23.495
Total Bitrate: 22.84 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 13457 kbps / 1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
Audio: English / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
Audio: English / LPCM Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 4608 kbps / 16-bit
Audio: Japanese / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
Subtitle: English / 5.274 kbps
Subtitle: English / 52.709 kbps
Subtitle: English / 52.698 kbps

********************
PLAYLIST: 00003.MPLS
********************

<--- BEGIN FORUMS PASTE --->

Code:

                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00003.MPLS                                                      AVC     0:24:23 4,319,477,760   23,865,280,831  23.61   12.44   LPCM 2.0 1536Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)          LPCM 5.1 4608Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)

Code:

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     ARIAS1BD1
Disc Size:      23,865,280,831 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BDInfo:         0.7.4.0

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00003.MPLS
Length:                 0:24:23.495 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   4,319,477,760 bytes
Total Bitrate:          23.61 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        12435 kbps          1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
LPCM Audio                      English         1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz /  1536 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      English         4608 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz /  4608 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      Japanese        1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz /  1536 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      English         1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz /  1536 kbps / 16-bit

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         5.297 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           English         49.383 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           English         49.369 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00006.M2TS      0:00:00.000     0:24:23.495     4,319,477,760   23,612          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:00:34.501     12,961 kbps     39,550 kbps     00:00:00.967    16,677 kbps     00:00:00.967    14,730 kbps     00:00:00.967    54,007 bytes    432,986 bytes   00:00:01.001    
2               0:00:34.501     0:02:51.337     12,254 kbps     18,231 kbps     00:02:32.051    15,540 kbps     00:01:11.404    14,288 kbps     00:01:06.866    51,099 bytes    225,211 bytes   00:03:18.865    
3               0:03:25.838     0:08:55.668     12,400 kbps     24,848 kbps     00:11:00.126    18,269 kbps     00:07:19.038    16,590 kbps     00:07:14.100    51,720 bytes    298,471 bytes   00:06:49.342    
4               0:12:21.507     0:10:25.024     12,557 kbps     20,879 kbps     00:21:10.168    17,826 kbps     00:19:56.562    16,649 kbps     00:19:03.075    52,375 bytes    302,496 bytes   00:13:47.126    
5               0:22:46.531     0:01:20.947     12,160 kbps     20,859 kbps     00:23:49.895    17,603 kbps     00:23:49.828    16,819 kbps     00:23:49.494    50,717 bytes    330,883 bytes   00:23:24.970    
6               0:24:07.479     0:00:15.015     11,772 kbps     16,161 kbps     00:24:13.718    13,222 kbps     00:24:10.682    12,457 kbps     00:24:09.281    48,990 bytes    280,768 bytes   00:24:14.352    
7               0:24:22.494     0:00:01.000     47 kbps         0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    217 bytes       553 bytes       00:24:23.061    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00006.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     1463.362                12,436                  2,274,826,047   12,388,924      
00006.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           1463.362                1,543                   282,156,052     1,756,158       
00006.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           1463.362                4,615                   844,146,800     4,683,200       
00006.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x80            LPCM            jpn (Japanese)          1463.362                1,543                   282,156,052     1,756,158       
00006.M2TS      4355 (0x1103)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           1463.362                1,543                   282,156,052     1,756,158       
00006.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.362                5                       968,938         5,401           
00006.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.362                49                      9,034,014       51,129          
00006.M2TS      4610 (0x1202)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.362                49                      9,031,349       51,105

<---- END FORUMS PASTE ---->

QUICK SUMMARY:

Disc Title: ARIAS1BD1
Disc Size: 23,865,280,831 bytes
Protection: AACS
Playlist: 00003.MPLS
Size: 4,319,477,760 bytes
Length: 0:24:23.495
Total Bitrate: 23.61 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 12435 kbps / 1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
Audio: English / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
Audio: English / LPCM Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 4608 kbps / 16-bit
Audio: Japanese / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
Audio: English / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
Subtitle: English / 5.297 kbps
Subtitle: English / 49.383 kbps
Subtitle: English / 49.369 kbps

********************
PLAYLIST: 00004.MPLS
********************

<--- BEGIN FORUMS PASTE --->

Code:

                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00004.MPLS                                                      AVC     0:24:23 3,975,942,144   23,865,280,831  21.73   12.41   LPCM 2.0 1536Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)          LPCM 5.1 4608Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)

Code:

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     ARIAS1BD1
Disc Size:      23,865,280,831 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BDInfo:         0.7.4.0

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00004.MPLS
Length:                 0:24:23.495 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   3,975,942,144 bytes
Total Bitrate:          21.73 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        12411 kbps          1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
LPCM Audio                      English         1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz /  1536 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      English         4608 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz /  4608 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      Japanese        1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz /  1536 kbps / 16-bit

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         5.311 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           English         44.725 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           English         44.712 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00008.M2TS      0:00:00.000     0:24:23.495     3,975,942,144   21,734          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:01:41.768     12,581 kbps     35,262 kbps     00:00:00.967    18,636 kbps     00:00:00.967    15,222 kbps     00:00:00.967    52,454 bytes    362,454 bytes   00:00:02.002    
2               0:01:41.768     0:02:27.780     12,208 kbps     16,955 kbps     00:02:11.731    14,011 kbps     00:02:36.489    13,438 kbps     00:02:02.655    50,908 bytes    219,210 bytes   00:04:02.375    
3               0:04:09.549     0:08:36.983     12,471 kbps     18,696 kbps     00:05:22.755    16,654 kbps     00:06:39.899    15,344 kbps     00:06:38.264    52,019 bytes    324,334 bytes   00:06:44.871    
4               0:12:46.532     0:09:59.932     12,578 kbps     37,217 kbps     00:20:25.824    32,443 kbps     00:20:25.824    28,491 kbps     00:20:24.656    52,461 bytes    307,718 bytes   00:20:25.857    
5               0:22:46.465     0:01:21.014     11,191 kbps     19,623 kbps     00:23:49.494    17,047 kbps     00:23:49.194    15,985 kbps     00:23:49.294    46,675 bytes    313,504 bytes   00:23:24.703    
6               0:24:07.479     0:00:15.015     11,931 kbps     17,213 kbps     00:24:10.782    14,115 kbps     00:24:07.479    12,827 kbps     00:24:07.479    49,762 bytes    204,363 bytes   00:24:20.392    
7               0:24:22.494     0:00:01.000     52 kbps         0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    223 bytes       553 bytes       00:24:23.295    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00008.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     1463.429                12,412                  2,270,461,419   12,365,189      
00008.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           1463.429                1,542                   282,156,052     1,756,158       
00008.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           1463.429                4,615                   844,146,800     4,683,200       
00008.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x80            LPCM            jpn (Japanese)          1463.429                1,542                   282,156,052     1,756,158       
00008.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.429                5                       971,611         5,416           
00008.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.429                45                      8,181,776       46,433          
00008.M2TS      4610 (0x1202)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.429                45                      8,179,441       46,413

<---- END FORUMS PASTE ---->

QUICK SUMMARY:

Disc Title: ARIAS1BD1
Disc Size: 23,865,280,831 bytes
Protection: AACS
Playlist: 00004.MPLS
Size: 3,975,942,144 bytes
Length: 0:24:23.495
Total Bitrate: 21.73 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 12411 kbps / 1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
Audio: English / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
Audio: English / LPCM Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 4608 kbps / 16-bit
Audio: Japanese / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
Subtitle: English / 5.311 kbps
Subtitle: English / 44.725 kbps
Subtitle: English / 44.712 kbps

********************
PLAYLIST: 00005.MPLS
********************

<--- BEGIN FORUMS PASTE --->

Code:

                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00005.MPLS                                                      AVC     0:24:23 3,979,800,576   23,865,280,831  21.76   12.43   LPCM 2.0 1536Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)          LPCM 5.1 4608Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)

Code:

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     ARIAS1BD1
Disc Size:      23,865,280,831 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BDInfo:         0.7.4.0

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00005.MPLS
Length:                 0:24:23.495 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   3,979,800,576 bytes
Total Bitrate:          21.76 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        12427 kbps          1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
LPCM Audio                      English         1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz /  1536 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      English         4608 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz /  4608 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      Japanese        1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz /  1536 kbps / 16-bit

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         5.329 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           English         46.411 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           English         46.401 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00010.M2TS      0:00:00.000     0:24:23.495     3,979,800,576   21,755          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:01:16.342     12,460 kbps     41,490 kbps     00:00:00.967    18,862 kbps     00:00:00.967    14,887 kbps     00:00:00.967    51,924 bytes    360,373 bytes   00:00:40.607    
2               0:01:16.342     0:01:39.599     12,561 kbps     26,262 kbps     00:02:24.777    17,765 kbps     00:02:23.476    14,866 kbps     00:02:18.471    52,409 bytes    196,501 bytes   00:01:30.457    
3               0:02:55.942     0:09:10.550     12,489 kbps     25,642 kbps     00:05:43.910    23,595 kbps     00:05:43.910    19,906 kbps     00:05:43.743    52,089 bytes    327,653 bytes   00:04:23.796    
4               0:12:06.492     0:10:39.972     12,346 kbps     20,956 kbps     00:18:20.532    16,907 kbps     00:14:12.318    15,660 kbps     00:14:07.746    51,495 bytes    280,082 bytes   00:14:03.676    
5               0:22:46.465     0:01:21.014     12,472 kbps     20,383 kbps     00:23:49.261    18,141 kbps     00:23:49.161    17,223 kbps     00:23:49.294    52,020 bytes    340,505 bytes   00:23:24.736    
6               0:24:07.479     0:00:15.015     13,161 kbps     17,251 kbps     00:24:15.454    14,342 kbps     00:24:14.219    13,705 kbps     00:24:08.113    54,891 bytes    188,436 bytes   00:24:11.483    
7               0:24:22.494     0:00:01.000     54 kbps         0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    235 bytes       553 bytes       00:24:23.028    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00010.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     1463.429                12,428                  2,273,447,225   12,381,552      
00010.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           1463.429                1,542                   282,156,052     1,756,158       
00010.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           1463.429                4,615                   844,146,800     4,683,200       
00010.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x80            LPCM            jpn (Japanese)          1463.429                1,542                   282,156,052     1,756,158       
00010.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.429                5                       974,872         5,442           
00010.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.429                46                      8,490,201       48,290          
00010.M2TS      4610 (0x1202)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           1463.429                46                      8,488,501       48,277

<---- END FORUMS PASTE ---->

QUICK SUMMARY:

Disc Title: ARIAS1BD1
Disc Size: 23,865,280,831 bytes
Protection: AACS
Playlist: 00005.MPLS
Size: 3,979,800,576 bytes
Length: 0:24:23.495
Total Bitrate: 21.76 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 12427 kbps / 1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
Audio: English / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
Audio: English / LPCM Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 4608 kbps / 16-bit
Audio: Japanese / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
Subtitle: English / 5.329 kbps
Subtitle: English / 46.411 kbps
Subtitle: English / 46.401 kbps

professorwho · 09-21-2018, 01:19 AM

That's a shockingly low bitrate. Probably because they did a 5.1 mix of the dub.

Ugh... I remember reading Kleckner saying bitrate is their highest priority, which isn't true. They leave too much space on the disc (Utena) unused, and here they are using a BD-25 and fitting as much as possible.

professorwho · 09-21-2018, 01:36 AM

Actually, these Bitrates are lower than most FUNimation titles...

While I'm sure it's better encoded, it's still pathetic to aim for such low bitrates.

NLScavenger · 09-21-2018, 08:40 AM

I'm not familiar with Aria The Animation, but it does look like a show that would compress much easier than the average modern day anime.

Having said that, this still reeks of penny pinching. From the use of BD25, to the use of royalty free PCM for the 5.1 surround track.

professorwho · 09-21-2018, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle15

Any word yet on Mind Game?

I would pick it up, but:
1. It’s Shout Factory. I hate their automatic encoding at constant bitrate BS.
2. Shout just released Platoon, which, utilizing a 4K scan, is DNR’d to death and looks worse than the MGM BD.
3. Presumably it’s not the same as the international disc(s), as they encode everything themselves.
4. I’m lazy.

UseY0ur1llusi0n · 09-22-2018, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naiera

Yeah, Escaflowne is pretty darn good. The UK release is slightly better.

In what world? The UK release is infinitely superior (though it doesn't take much to beat that dodgy compression, lel).

mp3dom already pointed it out in 2016 but the links have since expired. Aside from being majorly bitstarved, the Funimation release has had their settings improperly tweaked wherein portions of the encode are thrown under the bus: http://i.imgur.com/wXKXBwA.jpg (check the sky above the clouds). The literal epitome of 'half-assed'.

I never understood all the praise for it (including professorwho's own review(s)? on this very site). The person who took the caps on fandompost went as far as to say it's on par with the Japanese set.

Just ludicrous.

NLScavenger · 09-22-2018, 12:13 PM

I don't think the Funi BD screenshots look terrible (Better than Bebop fosho), but it's not one of those BDs that I would put on a pedestal. The dark details aren't preserved very well, but I wonder if the artifacting in the dark details is going to be that noticeable in motion with it being dark and all.

I'm a bit on the fence with Escaflowne. The UK BD has better video compression, but:
- Japanese audio dropout on one episode (A big No-No IMO)
- worse subtitles

Both problems are easily "fixed" by ripping and remuxing, but I prefer to have something that doesn't need fiddling.

HunterKIller · 09-22-2018, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

I don't think the Funi BD screenshots look terrible (Better than Bebop fosho), but it's not one of those BDs that I would put on a pedestal. The dark details aren't preserved very well, but I wonder if the artifacting in the dark details is going to be that noticeable in motion with it being dark and all.

I'm a bit on the fence with Escaflowne. The UK BD has better video compression, but:
- Japanese audio dropout on one episode (A big No-No IMO)
- worse subtitles

Both problems are easily "fixed" by ripping and remuxing, but I prefer to have something that doesn't need fiddling.

Subtitles? You think about problem with one episode, which was fixed and proper disc has been sent to all users?

NLScavenger · 09-22-2018, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterKIller

Subtitles? You think about problem with one episode, which was fixed and proper disc has been sent to all users?

The Funimation BD has a different and iirc better translation.

Naiera · 09-22-2018, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UseY0ur1llusi0n

In what world? The UK release is infinitely superior ...

professorwho · 09-22-2018, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UseY0ur1llusi0n

I never understood all the praise for it (including professorwho's own review(s)? on this very site). The person who took the caps on fandompost went as far as to say it's on par with the Japanese set.

Just ludicrous.

First off, I never said it wasn’t the best release. Nowhere did I ever say that. But that’s not your point. The reason I gave it so much praise was because it’s probably the best BD FUNi put out in years. While flawed, yes, they are less than most of their output. And, it generally looks fine. Perfect- no. But more than acceptable- absolutely.

Second, do not “call me out” like that. It doesn’t do anything good and just makes me mad. Did I do anything wrong? No, I just said I liked a Blu-ray.

You’re making the difference out to bigger than it actually is. Yes, the UK BD has better PQ, but the audio and subtitles issues are missing on FUNi’s BD. It’s not a night and day difference like Re:Zero US/UK vs JP. And don’t think I’m some FUNi fanboy- rarely do I ever give them praise.

So yeah. I’m not crazy.

NLScavenger · 09-22-2018, 08:27 PM

Caps-a-holic.com: Cleopatra: Queen of Sex - UK/DE BD vs JP DVD

Yuripa · 09-22-2018, 09:26 PM

DNR did another massacre...
That's ugly, lost of many details + color swap.

NLScavenger · 09-23-2018, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuripa

DNR did another massacre...
That's ugly, lost of many details + color swap.

Yeah, there appears to have been some filtering done to it, but I think most of the gamma and sharpness problems stem from the scan/telecine. It looks like it was derived from a crappy mid 2000's CRT telecine/scan, similar to Perfect Blue, Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust and Night on the Galactic Railroad.

professorwho · 09-23-2018, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

There's a little bit of banding every now and then, but other than that I have no complaints.

In regards to Fate Heaven's Feel:

mp3dom has assured me the Dynit release will be superior in both compression and banding;

Quote:

but not everything was fixed, because some scene with particles effects and similar would have required a frame-by-frame mask to cover the each particle. Something that would have required 1 day to mask one single frame... extremely expensive.

That's totally fine by me, and he compared it to the JP disc to make sure it looks right. Plus, timing is the same as the JP BD. I might pick it up, so when I do, maybe you could send me some subs?

09-20-2018, 06:21 AM	#2363
NLScavenger Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Dec 2013 Location:Netherlands 4K collection:20 Blu-ray collection:831 Trading Score:9	I think Bebop is worse than the above examples since they have actually tampered with the master. What they did was take a perfectly fine master that wasn’t even that very grainy or dirty to begin with and: 1 ) Filtered/denoised it. This process erased the film grain and details (shadow detail in particular), while also also adding smearing artifacts. 2 ) IVTC. Doesn’t affect the film parts but does affect the SD parts. 3 ) Inserted a totally unconvincing fake film grain plate to compensate for the erased film grain. 4 ) Used a poor compression algorithm that does not preserve low luma detail very well. Unfortunately, Cowboy Bebop has a lot of low luma detail. There’s that old saying that applies here: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”. Funimation got cocky and thought that they could be like Lowry Digital: the film processing/post-production company that among others handled the Blu-ray restoration of James Cameron’s ALIENS. ALIENS also underwent a denoise/regrain process, but color grading issues and minor smearing artifacts aside, the end result was far more refined and convincing than Cowboy Bebop. ALIENS also didn't suffer from poor compression. In the case of ALIENS it is somewhat understandable why Lowry did their denoising/regraining shtick; anyone who had the good fortune of seeing ALIENS projected from film prints in recent years can attest to the fact that it’s a grainy movie, even on the 70mm prints. However, Cowboy Bebop is nothing like ALIENS and there's absolutely no justification for what Funimation did. EDIT: I'd also like to add that in the case of Steins;gate, Lain, Psycho-Pass, or just about any other Funi BD with elevated blacks and banding, you could still mitigate those problems to a certain extent by changing the player settings, running a debanding filter, etc. No such fix is possible for Cowboy Bebop. Can't restore the erased detail, original film grain, the frames that were lost because of the IVTC. Except for the lost frames, I can notice the problems of Funi's Bebop from normal viewing distances (32inch tv, 6 feet away) and it looks bad. Last edited by NLScavenger; 09-20-2018 at 07:44 AM.

09-19-2018, 04:43 PM	#2361
professorwho Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Apr 2017 4K collection:229 Blu-ray collection:982 Blu-ray reviews: 64 Trading Score:7	The FUNi version is from a technical perspective worse than the UK set. The Italian release is the best, is in the proper interlaced fashion, and has the most detail- plus highest Bitrate. mp3dom is a god. If you like a worse looking disc, fine. But you’re wrong in saying it isn’t a blunder- because it actually is.

09-20-2018, 05:00 PM	#2364
Kyle15 Blu-ray Duke Top contributor Member since:Jan 2011 Location:Alabama 4K collection:151 Blu-ray collection:393 DVD collection:8 Trading Score:5	Any word yet on Mind Game?

09-20-2018, 10:42 PM	#2365
Lambadelta Senior Member Top contributor Member since:Dec 2016 4K collection:12 Blu-ray collection:306 DVD collection:45	anyone who's able to take screencaps received Tanya yet?

09-21-2018, 01:19 AM	#2367
professorwho Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Apr 2017 4K collection:229 Blu-ray collection:982 Blu-ray reviews: 64 Trading Score:7	That's a shockingly low bitrate. Probably because they did a 5.1 mix of the dub. Ugh... I remember reading Kleckner saying bitrate is their highest priority, which isn't true. They leave too much space on the disc (Utena) unused, and here they are using a BD-25 and fitting as much as possible.

09-21-2018, 01:36 AM	#2368
professorwho Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Apr 2017 4K collection:229 Blu-ray collection:982 Blu-ray reviews: 64 Trading Score:7	Actually, these Bitrates are lower than most FUNimation titles... While I'm sure it's better encoded, it's still pathetic to aim for such low bitrates.

09-21-2018, 08:40 AM	#2369
NLScavenger Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Dec 2013 Location:Netherlands 4K collection:20 Blu-ray collection:831 Trading Score:9	I'm not familiar with Aria The Animation, but it does look like a show that would compress much easier than the average modern day anime. Having said that, this still reeks of penny pinching. From the use of BD25, to the use of royalty free PCM for the 5.1 surround track.

09-22-2018, 12:13 PM	#2372
NLScavenger Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Dec 2013 Location:Netherlands 4K collection:20 Blu-ray collection:831 Trading Score:9	I don't think the Funi BD screenshots look terrible (Better than Bebop fosho), but it's not one of those BDs that I would put on a pedestal. The dark details aren't preserved very well, but I wonder if the artifacting in the dark details is going to be that noticeable in motion with it being dark and all. I'm a bit on the fence with Escaflowne. The UK BD has better video compression, but: - Japanese audio dropout on one episode (A big No-No IMO) - worse subtitles Both problems are easily "fixed" by ripping and remuxing, but I prefer to have something that doesn't need fiddling.

09-22-2018, 08:27 PM	#2377
NLScavenger Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Dec 2013 Location:Netherlands 4K collection:20 Blu-ray collection:831 Trading Score:9	Caps-a-holic.com: Cleopatra: Queen of Sex - UK/DE BD vs JP DVD

09-22-2018, 09:26 PM	#2378
Yuripa Senior Member Top contributor Member since:Oct 2016 Location:EU (Belgium) Blu-ray collection:229 DVD collection:1 Trading Score:2	DNR did another massacre... That's ugly, lost of many details + color swap.

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