The Anime Blu-ray Video Quality Thread

[slerch666]

Watching this in full now. Devilman Lady that is.

First. OMG. I forgot just how awesome this show really is. Jun has this soft voice that goes crazy gutteral as hey Devilman counterpart. Love it. The music adds to the foreboding atmosphere perfectly.

Second, I was wrong about the opening. Only the first opening is from a composite source. The second opening is clean and clear, like you'd expect. I assume something is slightly different with that opening than the rest, so they included from the best source they had. Going to look through tomorrow to compare.

Third. This looks so much more amazing than it has a right to. I'm pissed they didn't treat it to a deluxe edition, which it absolutely deserves. And 26 episodes on 2 BD25s should look like crap. But... It kinda doesn't. To me anyway.

Such a great show. It's my favorite Devilman. Crybaby is second. Both trounce the OVA IMO.

I hope Discotek nabs this and gives Justin a whack at it.

Went through my old DVDs from ADV. Someone there was definitely a fan. The covers are great and the included aRt cards were a great addition.

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by professorwho

Then the UK release should be the same as well.

For those of you curious, we are authoring our own Blu-ray and DVD discs of Maquia and this is also a product we are creating in collaboration with our French label too.

https://blog.alltheanime.com/upcomin...view-feb-2019/

[NLScavenger]

More KOR screenshots:

Originally Posted by Sensuifu

Vol.1 Screencaps

The PQ is obviously better than the SD releases overall, but the artificial grain is distracting. The hues, especially the reds and greens seem a tad oversaturated..like a radioactive glow to them in some instances. Curious as to why the OPs/EDs don't have the artificial grain applied, though also seem to be degrained a bit...still, they're easier on the eyes than the constant grain plaguing the main content. It's nice this is finally released in HD, but the filtering could've been tapered off a bit.

Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00000.MPLS                                                      AVC     4:18:03 47,814,918,528  47,856,365,797  24.70   21.80   LPCM 2.0 1536Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     KIMAGURE ORAGE ROAD TV1
Disc Size:      47,856,365,797 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BDInfo:         0.7.3.65534

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00000.MPLS
Length:                 4:18:03.718 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   47,814,918,528 bytes
Total Bitrate:          24.70 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description    
-----                   -------             -----------    
MPEG-4 AVC Video        21799 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description    
-----                           --------        -------         -----------    
LPCM Audio                      Japanese        1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description    
-----                           --------        -------         -----------    
Presentation Graphics           English         36.609 kbps                    

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate  
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------  
00000.M2TS      0:00:00.000     0:25:37.536     4,762,348,224   24,778          
00001.M2TS      0:25:37.536     0:25:38.036     4,756,635,264   24,741          
00002.M2TS      0:51:15.572     0:25:38.036     4,778,701,632   24,855          
00003.M2TS      1:16:53.608     0:25:38.036     4,771,795,968   24,820          
00004.M2TS      1:42:31.645     0:25:38.036     4,775,749,440   24,840          
00005.M2TS      2:08:09.681     0:25:37.536     4,781,864,448   24,880          
00006.M2TS      2:33:47.217     0:25:37.577     4,776,985,536   24,854          
00007.M2TS      2:59:24.795     0:25:37.536     4,764,642,240   24,790          
00008.M2TS      3:25:02.331     0:25:37.536     4,777,943,232   24,860          
00009.M2TS      3:50:39.867     0:25:37.494     4,772,207,424   24,830          
00010.M2TS      4:16:17.361     0:01:46.356     96,045,120      7,222

Originally Posted by cfx

Maquia is the title with the baked-in subtitles in the US release right? If so it will be interesting to see if this UK release is the same with respect to that.

Yes

[BlackCondor93]

It's more likely that the UK release of Maquia will have the subtitles player forced (just like all of Anime Limited's French authored discs) rather than hardsubbed (just like the Shout release and the Madman release), as this would've required three separate video files if it was hardsubbed (one for the Japanese audio with English subtitles, one for the Japanese audio with French subtitles and a clean master for the English and French dubs).

[slerch666]

Since it was asked for by a few, I just spent the last bit putting together a comparison of Kareshi Kanojou no Jijou JP BD vs US DVD.

My first comment is, I hate you all. lol The US DVD has the opening on every episode... and each one is a dual angle thing so getting a good shots was annoying since time codes weren't even close anymore. But whatever, figure out the offset, move on.

I also have to say, if you have the DVDs and are happy with them, keep them. Other than some compression issues, edge enhancement and the TV vs Home Video argument, I think I like the way the DVD looks overall. Grainy but detail exists. Though in some instances, they pulled some odd detai6, or got it wrong, l in the HD remaster (see shot 6 comparisons). Look at the swishes.

In terms of what you get, keep in mind this is actually the equivalent of a budget release in Japan. 15,000 Yen for 26 eps is insane. Even for older shows like this. After Amazon JP discount, including the Amazon exclusive post card set, I paid about 12,000 yen for it before shipping. Not bad at all.

What everyone feared, Q Tec involvement meaning loss of detail, well, you get what you expected.

It is 1080i. Soundtrack is uncompressed. All episodes are intact. It looks OK in actual motion.

First up, here are the comparison shots.

Keep in mind:
All image work was done with Vdub2 and Affinity Photo
DVD images are bicubic upscaled to unconstrained 1440x1080
BD images are cropped to 1440x1080
DVD framing might be slightly different than the BD but I captured as close as I could

Ignore image 8. Not sure what happened on the upload to the comparison site but it looks fine on imgur and unless someone has to have it, I'm going to be lazy and leave as is. I'll share those shots below.

Here you go:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/133238/

You can look at the BD shots in the comparison. I didn't take more than the 8 for the comparison.

Shot 8 DVD vs BD:
BD:
https://i.imgur.com/PHWNEjn.png

DVD:
https://i.imgur.com/kCLE9oh.png

BitRate Viewer:


BD info

[Show spoiler]

                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00001.MPLS                                                      AVC     2:15:48 0               40,439,815,305  0.00    0.00    LPCM 2.0

DISC INFO:

Disc Label:     KAREKANO_BDBOX_1
Disc Size:      40,439,815,305 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BDInfo:         0.7.5.5

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00001.MPLS
Length:                 2:15:48.473 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   0 bytes
Total Bitrate:          0.00 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        0 kbps              1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
LPCM Audio                      Japanese        0 kbps          2.0 / 48 kHz    

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00002.M2TS      0:00:00.000     0:22:36.288     0               0               
00003.M2TS      0:22:36.288     0:22:36.388     0               0               
00004.M2TS      0:45:12.676     0:22:36.321     0               0               
00005.M2TS      1:07:48.998     0:22:36.421     0               0               
00006.M2TS      1:30:25.419     0:22:36.355     0               0               
00007.M2TS      1:53:01.774     0:22:46.698     0               0               

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:00:18.351     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
2               0:00:18.351     0:10:48.948     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
3               0:11:07.299     0:09:53.025     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
4               0:21:00.325     0:01:20.013     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
5               0:22:20.339     0:00:15.949     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
6               0:22:36.288     0:00:18.351     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
7               0:22:54.639     0:11:21.947     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
8               0:34:16.587     0:09:20.026     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
9               0:43:36.613     0:01:20.079     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
10              0:44:56.693     0:00:15.982     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
11              0:45:12.676     0:00:18.351     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
12              0:45:31.028     0:11:14.940     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
13              0:56:45.969     0:09:26.999     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
14              1:06:12.968     0:01:20.013     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
15              1:07:32.982     0:00:16.015     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
16              1:07:48.998     0:00:18.418     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
17              1:08:07.416     0:09:33.906     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
18              1:17:41.323     0:11:08.067     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
19              1:28:49.390     0:01:20.013     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
20              1:30:09.403     0:00:16.016     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
21              1:30:25.419     0:00:18.385     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
22              1:30:43.805     0:09:06.913     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
23              1:39:50.718     0:11:35.027     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
24              1:51:25.745     0:01:19.979     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
25              1:52:45.725     0:00:16.049     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
26              1:53:01.774     0:01:37.964     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
27              1:54:39.739     0:07:35.054     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
28              2:02:14.794     0:12:17.069     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
29              2:14:31.863     0:00:59.993     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    
30              2:15:31.857     0:00:16.616     0 kbps          0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 bytes         0 bytes         00:00:00.000    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----

Given the info professorwho shared last week or before, I am not unhappy with the set. You get all 26 episodes in what is probably the best HD quality possible... if you can ignore Q-Tec loss of grain. You get every episode, including the .5 and .75 episodes. You get a nice 100 page book with settei and some color artwork. For a budget (for Japan) price.

If TRSI decided to do this again for the North American market, I'd probably double dip, if for no other reason than the amount of work they will have to do, once again, to subtitle every tiny bit of dialog and on screen text. The DVDs were supposedly some of the most complex at the time (and could still be).

Fun times.

[NLScavenger]

VD2 doesn't handle interlaced content very well (see the handling of interlaced chroma in BD screenshot #3), but I believe the problems can be avoided by feeding the video into an avisynth script first. I haven't bothered setting up avisynth with VD2, so I'm using madVR for interlaced content.

[slerch666]

I just realized that one of the shots has some interlace crap in it. Thought I did a good job picking frames that weren't impacted but I missed one. The last shot on DVD I think I got one there as well.

If someone needs me to, I can go back and redo.

[Nostalgic Twilight]

Does anyone else think KOR’s grain is artificial? It sure didn’t seem that way to me, but I’m no expert on the subject. Regarding the OP/ED having less of it, I just assumed that was because they were shot on 35mm film with the episode content being 16mm.

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by Nostalgic Twilight

Does anyone else think KOR’s grain is artificial? It sure didn’t seem that way to me, but I’m no expert on the subject. Regarding the OP/ED having less of it, I just assumed that was because they were shot on 35mm film with the episode content being 16mm.

Take it as you will, but the grain structure kinda remind me of that from Aliens (35mm. Confirmed to have been regrained) and The Evil Dead (16mm. Some claim it was regrained)

[slerch666]

Originally Posted by Nostalgic Twilight

Does anyone else think KOR’s grain is artificial? It sure didn’t seem that way to me, but I’m no expert on the subject. Regarding the OP/ED having less of it, I just assumed that was because they were shot on 35mm film with the episode content being 16mm.

My understanding is where you are.

I believe the op/ed and eye catch (possibly) are 35mm and thus grain less apparent. But this is my opinion/uneducated guess.

If they were going to add fake grain, they would have done it throughout not just the episode's "meat" IMO.

Unless this was Q-tecced for JP Netflix and Justin was trying to correct it, I just don't see this being fake grain.

Justin could tell us differently though.

[professorwho]

I think that if a grain overlay was added to Kare Kano, it would be perfect. As is, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd rather take the Q-Tec BD over the DVD.

[professorwho]

Also, gave Sensuifu my $0.02.

[jd213]

I only took a quick look at KareKano, but the BD definitely seems better at first glance, didn't see any composite artifacts, so is it a component master or just filtered? Colors and shadow detail (like in Arima's uniform and eyes) seem better as well.

[slerch666]

Originally Posted by jd213

is it a component master or just filtered? Colors and shadow detail (like in Arima's uniform and eyes) seem better as well.

I guess the answer is, I don't know. There is no information on the official website that details what they did for the remastering at all. Just BUY OUR COOL STUFF!

http://king-cr.jp/special/karekano_bdbox/

I can say they definitely remastered it in some way, since it used Q Tec to remove grain which is obvious in the screenshots.

Colors can be corrected on a composite source but yeah, usually not like this.

Based on my friend professorwho's post here, it sounded to me (and he can correct me if I am wrong) that the text and digital effects were done in SD and likely from a composite source.

Is it possible they used a component source that still has the dotcrawl from the composite effects? I don't know if that is technically accurate or if dotcrawl would impact something in that situation.

I can tell you that without a doubt there are some spots where text is SUPER clear and others, like in shot 2 in my comparisons where you see blooming around edges, not so clear. To me, that looks like they smeared the edges which causes that bloom...that could be Q-Tec only or it could be Q-Tec and a composite source... but again, I'm not the technical expert.

[slerch666]

Originally Posted by professorwho

I think that if a grain overlay was added to Kare Kano, it would be perfect. As is, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd rather take the Q-Tec BD over the DVD.

Maybe putting fake grain in would make it better?

In actual motion it looks OK. It doesn't look natural at all though in some scenes because it's just too clean.

I'm on the fence. I like the grain in the DVD release. Don't like the dot crawl, compression artefacts, and that it's the TV version. But it also doesn't look unnaturally clean.


Random, not aimed at professorwho, commment:

Someone said you lose detail with this process, which is true, but they manage to maintain detail in places I feel it matters, such as character outlines, etc where it was lost in say, GE 999 movies.

[professorwho]

Originally Posted by slerch666

Based on my friend professorwho's post here, it sounded to me (and he can correct me if I am wrong) that the text and digital effects were done in SD and likely from a composite source.

Is it possible they used a component source that still has the dotcrawl from the composite effects? I don't know if that is technically accurate or if dotcrawl would impact something in that situation.

Yeah, Kare Kano was made in a weird way. The hand drawn animation was done on cels and shot on 16mm, and edited that way (thus the weird splice marks), then it was put through a telecine process and digitally the effects were done at SD quality at 480i. Then it was finished on a D2 cassette, which is a high quality composite tape. Better than DVD, due to less restrictions with Bitrate and such, but because the master with everything was a composite cassette, that’s where the dot crawl came from- being on a composite tape. Now, remember how they took the stuff from film and adde the effects digitally at 30i? Well, they did a telecine, which takes film and concerts it to digital at 30i from 24p. But, it’s not a clean pull down, so it’s impossible to do an inverse telecine (or revert it back to 24p) on the 16mm stuff.

So, a component master is out of the question. I’d say this is all due to filtering from Q-Tec.

Really, I’d say this is the best we’ll ever get as Kare Kano is f**ked because Gainax did some high tech stuff in the 90s without thinking of the consequences of releasing it on a better format 2 decades from then. On a CRT/PVM, Kare Kano looks stunning, but on an HDTV, it’s naked and all exposed- in a bad way.

[slerch666]

Originally Posted by professorwho

So, a component master is out of the question. I’d say this is all due to filtering from Q-Tec.

Really, I’d say this is the best we’ll ever get as Kare Kano is f**ked because Gainax did some high tech stuff in the 90s without thinking of the consequences of releasing it on a better format 2 decades from then. On a CRT/PVM, Kare Kano looks stunning, but on an HDTV, it’s naked and all exposed- in a bad way.

Most likely then this is part of why it is a budget release. Down to 11000 Yen today on Amazon Japan (without the postcards). That's dirt cheap for a JP release.

[professorwho]

Originally Posted by professorwho

Also, gave Sensuifu my $0.02.

Well, I overreacted and apologized to him there, but he does raise an interesting point- is it degrained than regrained?

If it is, they did a damn good job, as when I saw Nostalgic Twilight's initial screenshots, I never considered it- it looked great to me. But, if they did, I'm assuming some of the natural grain was left in, as it doesn't look like FUNi Bebop, which did an identical thing.

That said, I think some grain reduction was applied. This shot of Hikaru is too clean to be 16mm:


And maybe this closeup:


Ignoring those, I couldn't find any extreme or even minor examples that stood out.

Personally, it looks good enough to me. But, I think some grain reduction was applied, though maybe not as much as others are saying.

[Dailyan]

I watched my "Lupin III: The Secret of Mamo" UHD and it's as mediocre as I expected. If you own a Disney Xerox Blu, any title from "101 Dalmatians"-"Oliver & Company", that's the kind of quality you get from Mamo: grainless and colors boosted (to the point where Jigen's suit is more dark blue than grey) except in 4 times the 1080p resolution!

Detailed backgrounds still look generally solid. It's a shame TMS didn't learn anything from "Space Adventure Cobra" and "Tomorrow's Joe 2". I don't have too much hopes for the "Cagliostro" UHD considering that remaster was already fairly grain-managed (This seems to be TMS' MO for doing 4K remasters).

[Ccharmanderk]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

I watched my "Lupin III: The Secret of Mamo" UHD and it's as mediocre as I expected. If you own a Disney Xerox Blu, any title from "101 Dalmatians"-"Oliver & Company", that's the kind of quality you get from Mamo: grainless and colors boosted (to the point where Jigen's suit is more dark blue than grey) except in 4 times the 1080p resolution!

Detailed backgrounds still look generally solid. It's a shame TMS didn't learn anything from "Space Adventure Cobra" and "Tomorrow's Joe 2". I don't have too much hopes for the "Cagliostro" UHD considering that remaster was already fairly grain-managed (This seems to be TMS' MO for doing 4K remasters).

My concern is that Cobra's UHD release was so bad in the noise reduction department that it badly affected the linework. As I mentioned when screencaps were initially posted, some scenes have linework that resembles the spray tool on MS Paint; no solid lines and things being made up of speckled dots, essentially.

I won't doubt that Mamo probably looks like trash, but I at least hope that it's marginally better than Cobra in this regard.