The Anime Blu-ray Video Quality Thread

[Gorgon]

Thanks for the info (and the link) NLS.
Sounds like I'm ordering this!

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by Gorgon

I'm curious if anyone could provide thoughts wrt the quality of the MVM (uk) release of Garden of Sinners?
It's currently about 1/3 the price of the Aniplex set (86 quid) and is cut on 7x BD-50s in MPEG-4 and Eng subs.
Ta.

It’s a clone.

EDIT: Too late

[kevers7290]

While we're on the subject, does anyone know if Touken Ranbu from MVM is a clone of the Aniplex? I am also looking at getting Cells at Work, but I suppose we can't get an answer on that one as it's not out yet.

[Naiera]

EDIT: Cells won't be a clone.

[Jasonval]

I was recently re watching kanokon the girl who cried fox on dvd as I think it was one of the first ecchi type anime I had seen. The dvd looked terrible looked worst then I remembered made me question if I had purchased a knockoff but then looked and I had purchased it earlier this year from right Stuf and I know I have seen a much better version of it like 2 to 3 years ago and it’s on my dead tablet is there a good release of this show in physical media?

[klasma]

Originally Posted by Naiera

Cells will be a clone.

Cells usually are.

[Logan Jones]

I'm watching Gunsmith Cats Blu-ray release by Animeigo.

As a little diversion, I decided to watch it on my PlayStation 3 over component video in 4:3 on my Sony CRT.

However, even though my system is set to output in a 4:3 aspect ratio, when I watch the Gunsmith Cats episodes and extras on Blu-ray, they're matted! (Specifically, the episodes and extras are all pillarboxed in a 16:9 aspect ratio, THEN letterboxed in a 4:3 frame.) Onscreen, the image is in a bordered window.

I don't understand why this is. Is the information on the box incorrect? Or is that just how Blu-rays (or this specific one) work?

Question: If I can fix it, how do I do it? (I've softmodded my PS3 with Rebug and Multiman, if those are options.)

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by Logan Jones

I'm watching Gunsmith Cats Blu-ray release by Animeigo.

As a little diversion, I decided to watch it on my PlayStation 3 over component video in 4:3 on my Sony CRT.

However, even though my system is set to output in a 4:3 aspect ratio, when I watch the Gunsmith Cats episodes and extras on Blu-ray, they're matted! (Specifically, the episodes and extras are all pillarboxed in a 16:9 aspect ratio, THEN letterboxed in a 4:3 frame.) Onscreen, the image is in a bordered window.

I don't understand why this is. Is the information on the box incorrect? Or is that just how Blu-rays (or this specific one) work?

Question: If I can fix it, how do I do it? (I've softmodded my PS3 with Rebug and Multiman, if those are options.)

All 4:3 content in HD are displayed on a 16:9 ratio.

[kk1]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

All 4:3 content in HD are displayed on a 16:9 ratio.

What if you have a 4:3 hi def (720p) CRT TV?

[professorwho]

Originally Posted by kk1

What if you have a 4:3 hi def (720p) CRT TV?

A 1.33:1 or 4:3 aspect ratio image is 1440x1080 pixels encoded into a 1920x1080 frame. The black bars are encoded into the image.

[kk1]

Kind of figured since that what they looked like when I watched them once. BTW anyone know how to fix a hi def CRT tv? Ever since some movers put it in another room the screen is all whacked the the image is all green and distorted if it shows up at all, tried degaussing with a magnet but that didn't help.

[Logan Jones]

Originally Posted by professorwho

A 1.33:1 or 4:3 aspect ratio image is 1440x1080 pixels encoded into a 1920x1080 frame. The black bars are encoded into the image.

Well that's just perfect. Isn't that a waste of encoding space? NOt just visually, but on the technical side of things?

[professorwho]

Originally Posted by Logan Jones

Well that's just perfect. Isn't that a waste of encoding space? NOt just visually, but on the technical side of things?

I believe it's for compatibility. If you encoded it as just 1440x1080, TVs might stretch it to 1920x1080, ruining the composition (plus many modern TVs lack a 4:3 AR option in settings), and other issues. I know it's not done like that (encoding as 4:3), but I'm just gonna leave it there, as I don't want to spread misinformation as I don't fully understand it myself- maybe mp3dom or Justin (or hell, even David Mackenzie if he's somehow reading this) could chime in and give a detailed explanation as to why it is that way.

[NLScavenger]

1440x1080 is a rectangular pixel format within Blu-ray spec, so it is displayed in widescreen on a square pixel display.

Originally Posted by Logan Jones

Well that's just perfect. Isn't that a waste of encoding space? NOt just visually, but on the technical side of things?

Not really because of temporal and spatial redundancy.

[Logan Jones]

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

1440x1080 is a rectangular pixel format within Blu-ray spec, so it is displayed in widescreen on a square pixel display.


Not really because of temporal and spatial redundancy.

What does that mean?

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by Logan Jones

What does that mean?

One of the things with video compression is that it exploits redundancies spatially (within a frame) and temporally (within multiple frames).

The pixels in the black pillarboxes can be reused within the same frame and in other frames, thus saving data.

I'm sure someone else can explain it much better.

[BoscoTheMan82]

4:3 on a blu-ray disc without borders is only possible in SD, borders have to be used with 4:3 in HD since that's the only way in spec to encode it.

[professorwho]

Fate/Stay Night [Heaven's Feel] II. lost butterfly
(Dynit, Italy)

Japanese Blu-ray:

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00000.MPLS
Length:                 1:57:08.021 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   40,050,733,056 bytes
Total Bitrate:          45.59 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        37095 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             Japanese        1742 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz /  1742 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 2.0 / 48 kHz /   768 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS-HD Master Audio             Japanese        4071 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz /  4071 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz /  1509 kbps / 24-bit)

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           Japanese        182.602 kbps                    
Presentation Graphics           English         149.241 kbps                    

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00000.M2TS      0:00:00.000     0:55:31.328     19,394,174,976  46,574          
00001.M2TS      0:55:31.328     1:01:36.692     20,656,558,080  44,703

Italian Blu-ray:

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00004.MPLS
Length:                 1:57:08.021 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   38,094,161,280 bytes
Total Bitrate:          43.36 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        34557 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             Italian         3225 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz /  3225 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz /  1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS-HD Master Audio             Japanese        3209 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz /  3209 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz /  1509 kbps / 24-bit)

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           Italian         29.529 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Italian         4.054 kbps                      

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00005.M2TS      0:00:00.000     1:57:08.021     38,094,161,280  43,362          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:04:19.550     31,964 kbps     49,382 kbps     00:02:39.409    40,024 kbps     00:02:39.409    38,543 kbps     00:01:26.127    166,621 bytes   645,291 bytes   00:00:26.693    
2               0:04:19.550     0:01:41.684     34,666 kbps     49,020 kbps     00:04:30.603    40,692 kbps     00:05:53.978    38,546 kbps     00:05:34.042    180,735 bytes   777,287 bytes   00:04:31.521    
3               0:06:01.235     0:05:12.979     34,096 kbps     57,041 kbps     00:06:05.448    41,147 kbps     00:09:20.643    39,086 kbps     00:09:20.643    177,761 bytes   804,159 bytes   00:08:56.953    
4               0:11:14.215     0:03:56.152     36,554 kbps     52,446 kbps     00:14:38.210    41,879 kbps     00:14:36.208    39,301 kbps     00:11:57.341    190,574 bytes   706,029 bytes   00:11:47.415    
5               0:15:10.367     0:05:10.977     35,913 kbps     47,982 kbps     00:15:19.376    41,569 kbps     00:17:10.696    38,411 kbps     00:17:51.236    187,233 bytes   531,515 bytes   00:18:00.996    
6               0:20:21.345     0:03:27.081     35,308 kbps     47,393 kbps     00:20:29.645    40,147 kbps     00:22:02.487    38,836 kbps     00:21:59.318    184,079 bytes   625,351 bytes   00:21:53.478    
7               0:23:48.427     0:04:57.755     36,433 kbps     47,803 kbps     00:25:45.001    40,905 kbps     00:26:32.465    39,051 kbps     00:25:10.759    189,943 bytes   669,039 bytes   00:25:01.333    
8               0:28:46.182     0:12:48.017     36,422 kbps     49,076 kbps     00:30:03.301    41,182 kbps     00:30:46.386    39,389 kbps     00:31:10.535    189,887 bytes   682,224 bytes   00:29:11.166    
9               0:41:34.200     0:05:00.008     34,223 kbps     48,546 kbps     00:41:50.299    41,365 kbps     00:41:47.796    38,868 kbps     00:43:06.625    178,422 bytes   675,882 bytes   00:45:47.494    
10              0:46:34.208     0:03:29.209     36,813 kbps     49,308 kbps     00:49:36.473    40,444 kbps     00:49:35.639    38,868 kbps     00:47:03.779    191,927 bytes   551,410 bytes   00:46:36.126    
11              0:50:03.417     0:04:42.865     36,782 kbps     48,308 kbps     00:50:49.838    40,847 kbps     00:52:32.566    38,809 kbps     00:52:32.607    191,763 bytes   531,308 bytes   00:51:05.896    
12              0:54:46.283     0:05:04.971     36,655 kbps     47,618 kbps     00:58:34.802    41,558 kbps     00:58:32.258    38,934 kbps     00:58:32.133    191,101 bytes   559,704 bytes   00:59:03.039    
13              0:59:51.254     0:05:53.728     36,284 kbps     55,665 kbps     01:02:34.625    40,861 kbps     01:04:09.887    38,631 kbps     01:04:10.847    189,166 bytes   664,780 bytes   01:05:41.854    
14              1:05:44.982     0:04:16.506     36,491 kbps     53,957 kbps     01:08:18.344    40,456 kbps     01:08:18.219    38,786 kbps     01:08:16.550    190,247 bytes   578,848 bytes   01:08:43.536    
15              1:10:01.488     0:06:11.871     36,722 kbps     47,606 kbps     01:10:27.014    41,764 kbps     01:12:55.329    39,002 kbps     01:12:28.469    191,451 bytes   658,528 bytes   01:13:44.753    
16              1:16:13.360     0:06:08.451     35,396 kbps     52,940 kbps     01:22:01.041    40,917 kbps     01:21:24.629    39,175 kbps     01:21:24.754    184,541 bytes   731,754 bytes   01:21:30.510    
17              1:22:21.811     0:07:13.891     36,142 kbps     55,696 kbps     01:28:32.140    40,839 kbps     01:29:21.647    38,872 kbps     01:22:22.479    188,426 bytes   726,162 bytes   01:23:35.218    
18              1:29:35.703     0:04:48.454     36,616 kbps     54,205 kbps     01:33:54.503    40,045 kbps     01:33:54.503    38,523 kbps     01:33:54.503    190,899 bytes   660,942 bytes   01:33:46.412    
19              1:34:24.158     0:05:10.143     36,630 kbps     47,852 kbps     01:34:24.659    40,131 kbps     01:34:35.628    37,991 kbps     01:34:31.666    190,971 bytes   732,539 bytes   01:39:32.466    
20              1:39:34.301     0:02:29.649     36,911 kbps     45,025 kbps     01:39:36.053    39,714 kbps     01:39:34.718    38,254 kbps     01:39:34.301    192,438 bytes   782,410 bytes   01:40:49.251    
21              1:42:03.951     0:04:04.369     36,332 kbps     54,316 kbps     01:43:16.982    41,677 kbps     01:43:16.982    38,963 kbps     01:44:39.106    189,419 bytes   723,048 bytes   01:46:08.278    
22              1:46:08.320     0:05:10.351     35,705 kbps     61,431 kbps     01:49:22.597    40,227 kbps     01:48:13.820    39,005 kbps     01:48:13.820    186,150 bytes   709,441 bytes   01:46:11.198    
23              1:51:18.671     0:04:31.271     3,422 kbps      9,416 kbps      01:52:02.632    7,936 kbps      01:51:59.504    7,604 kbps      01:52:08.388    17,840 bytes    131,988 bytes   01:52:17.313    
24              1:55:49.943     0:01:18.077     25,420 kbps     60,290 kbps     01:56:04.958    42,226 kbps     01:56:04.958    39,598 kbps     01:56:04.958    132,739 bytes   695,645 bytes   01:56:04.999    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00005.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     7027.938                34,558                  30,358,750,574  165,093,545     
00005.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       ita (Italian)           7027.938                3,225                   2,833,276,220   16,491,989      
00005.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       jpn (Japanese)          7027.938                3,209                   2,819,393,732   16,416,391      
00005.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             ita (Italian)           7027.938                30                      25,941,734      148,553         
00005.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             ita (Italian)           7027.938                4                       3,561,778       21,148

Caps aren't frame perfect (because I didn't want to spend time lining it up) but they're close enough.

Picture quality is on-par with the Japanese release, and has the same timing, so adding subs is easy. However, while I believe mp3dom made some enhancements, they may have been minor, and not displayed in those caps. I'll let you choose which is better.




As a result, some flaws are inherited. When I watched this in the cinema last year, during the fight between Shinji/Rider and Shirou/Rin/Archer, there was some terrible artifacting. However, having asked other about it, they didn't remember it, so I assumed maybe it was the theatre streaming a video source instead of using a DCP (or something like that). I can say that it must've been a DCP, as the same artifacting is here on the BD. Now, I'll be honest, it was only obvious on a 50 foot screen because I'm a PQ nerd, and it was noticeable on the BD when taking screencaps frame by frame because I'm looking for this. On a TV in motion, thankfully it's mostly gone.

So if you watch it on a TV in motion, I think you'll be very pleased with the results here. In motion, I'd give it a 9 or 10/10. However, I assume it's the same (if not a little worse on the JP/US BD)

The bitrate is stupidly high (even higher than the JP disc in reality- look at the graph. Aniplex is 37-39 mbps at almost all time, while Dynit is 37-45 at almost all time. The reason the Dynit has a lower "technical" average is because it has greater dips- like the credits) with many spikes into the 50s. Truly a great encode. Though it could be slightly higher with a "technical" average if more disc space was utilized. But that's just numbers, as it is, it's already as good as can be.

Audio is in DTS-HD MA 5.1 at 48kHz, 24-bit and is very good. This may be controversial, but I wish the stereo mixdown from the Japanese BD was on the Italian disc. I don't have any sound system nor surrounds (wouldn't fit in the living room), so I generally listen to stereo downmixes if a studio provides them on the disc (Arrow is very good at this) as it is louder (due to less channels having to be processed) and sounds cleaner. Even if it was lossy I'd prefer it on my TV due to it being stereo. The disc is only 38GB, so there is more than enough room and bitrate left to include it if it was an option.

EDIT: Read what mp3dom posted below in regards to the bitrate and audio. I iz stupid.

[professorwho]

My only real complaint isn't with the disc, but about the release. Aniplex of Japan should've put this out on 4K UHD. Yes, I know it was most likely composited at 1080p, but so was Kimi no na wa, and Tenki no Ko, and they're on UHD. Q-Tec is apparently pretty good at HDR mapping, as I've heard the Your Name UHD is reference quality in terms of HDR, besting titles like Mad Max Fury Road and The Revenant.

If it were on UHD, the fight scene at the 51 minute mark could be THE HDR demo we've all been looking for. Insane colour like Space Adventure Cobra, and absolutely insane Key Animation. I mean, Nozomu Abe's bit would be a showstopper.

[mp3dom]

I'm sending you a PM regarding the debanding stage.
Regarding the used disc space and the additional downmixed stereo track(s), due to those numerous high bitrate spikes on the video side, the maximum bitrate was already lowered. The dts-hd 5.1 tracks take each ~ 4.2 Mbps (so 8.5 Mbps from the total of 48 Mbps would technically be enough to cover the audio) but video bitrate was lowered more than 10 (the maximum bitrate) to accomplish the specs.
The downmixed track(s) would probably have lowered the video bitrate for additional 2 Mbps.
It's not a "disc space" issue, but a total bitrate per second limitation that also limits the size of the movie file itself.