The Anime Blu-ray Video Quality Thread

[Raye]

Can anyone vouch if FUNi's release of Slime is decent? Thinking about picking it up from the RS sale (or one of these days) but don't want to get it if it's mediocre. Thanks in advance because you guys saved me from buyer's regret if I had purchased Magus Bride and Re:Zero.

[Mangaranga]

Received my copy of the Italian Cowboy Bebop set today and watched the first three episodes so far. Needless to say I'm really happy with my purchase as it looks fantastic. Its well documented how bad the US BD is, so I did a few comparisons with the UK BD and it turns out that's pretty bad too. I watched parts of episode 2 side by side and it spends its entire time between looking okay and being a blocky mess. For comparison. Also for those unaware, on part 1 at least the UK BD has defective audio for the second episode as well as the NCED which I'm 99% sure was never fixed. Needless to say, this is the version of Cowboy Bebop we should have got in English speaking territories, and if you have 216gb free and the means to mux in Audio/Subs - it is easily the best yet still cost effective version. I managed to get this from Ebay for £33.72.

Also of note, this release has Italian translated OP/ED text, however not only was an appropriate font used, but the effort was also put in so that the OP text is animated extremely faithfully to the original. I cannot give credit enough for that, and I wouldn't give Funimation anywhere near as much shit for replacing credits if it was done in this manner.

BDinfo from episode 1:

Disc Title: COWBOY BEBOP DISC1
Disc Label: D1
Disc Size: 43,581,574,896 bytes
Protection: AACS
Playlist: USER.002
Size: 8,523,614,208 bytes
Length: 0:24:43.148
Total Bitrate: 45.98 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 37300 kbps / 1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
Audio: Italian / DTS-HD Master Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 3151 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Audio: Japanese / DTS-HD Master Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 3044 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Subtitle: Italian / 32.616 kbps
Subtitle: Italian / 0.306 kbps

[NLScavenger]

Same timing as Dybex BD I see

Name:                   00002.MPLS
Length:                 0:24:43.148 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   7,745,660,928 bytes
Total Bitrate:          41.78 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        31889 kbps          1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             Japanese        3044 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz /  3044 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz /  1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS-HD Master Audio             French          2843 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz /  2843 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz /  1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS Audio                       German          1509 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz /  1509 kbps / 24-bit

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           French          16.483 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Dutch           16.740 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           German          17.926 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Portuguese      19.281 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           French          0.071 kbps

Is the OP text similar to Dybex BD?

YouTube

Also, do the end credits mention 'Unsho IIZUKA' instead of 'Unsho Ishizuka' and 'Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IVth' instead of 'Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV'

[Mangaranga]

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

Same timing as Dybex BD I see

Yeah, I'm eternally grateful for that. It's the same timing as the JP BD so imported the chapters from there too!

Is the OP text similar to Dybex BD?

Different. Very Different.

Also, do the end credits mention 'Unsho IIZUKA' instead of 'Unsho Ishizuka' and 'Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IVth' instead of 'Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV'

I checked the credits for episode 16 I believe and she's just listed as Ed.

[NLScavenger]

I like what I see. Similar to the Funi BD OP in some way, but more faithful.

[kk1]

So this is the definitive release huh? We should have a sticky thread of the best version of shows with multiple releases, it's one of the questions that gets asked the most anyway.

[PissedOffPeoN]

Originally Posted by Mangaranga

Received my copy of the Italian Cowboy Bebop set today and watched the first three episodes so far. Needless to say I'm really happy with my purchase as it looks fantastic. Its well documented how bad the US BD is, so I did a few comparisons with the UK BD and it turns out that's pretty bad too. I watched parts of episode 2 side by side and it spends its entire time between looking okay and being a blocky mess. For comparison. Also for those unaware, on part 1 at least the UK BD has defective audio for the second episode as well as the NCED which I'm 99% sure was never fixed. Needless to say, this is the version of Cowboy Bebop we should have got in English speaking territories, and if you have 216gb free and the means to mux in Audio/Subs - it is easily the best yet still cost effective version. I managed to get this from Ebay for £33.72.

Also of note, this release has Italian translated OP/ED text, however not only was an appropriate font used, but the effort was also put in so that the OP text is animated extremely faithfully to the original. I cannot give credit enough for that, and I wouldn't give Funimation anywhere near as much shit for replacing credits if it was done in this manner.

BDinfo from episode 1:

I got the UK complete set is the audio bug there as well? Or did it get fixed?

[Mangaranga]

Originally Posted by PissedOffPeoN

I got the UK complete set is the audio bug there as well? Or did it get fixed?

99.9% sure the answer is no. There's at least one episode on each set that have buggered audio, although I haven't checked anything beyond disc 1 for years. The defective audio is blatantly obvious if you have a half decent audio setup.

[mcorre]

Does Funi's blu-ray release of the Tenchi movies have video issues? I thought I remembered reading something about distorted colors on this very forum, but couldn't find it anywhere.

[BigOnAnime]

IIRC, I heard the Blu-ray for Tenchi in Love didn't have great color correction and had bad DNR. FUNimation simply used the JP Blu-ray masters so...

[professorwho]

Kareshi Kanojou no Jijou
JP BD vs JP DVD
(King Records, Japan)

Um... I made a very famous post on how Kare Kano is f**ked with regards to home video because of the production techniques used. That post has been linked to many times around the internet, which is cool. But in that post, I made the case for Q-Tec's Kare Kano being possibly the best release of the show. In some ways, it is, and in some, it isn't.


Blu-ray


DVD

First off, the technical specs. Both the DVD and the BD aim for very high bitrates for their respective platforms. The Blu-ray generally averages around 36 mbps, with the DVD at a near constant 9 mbps. For reference, the maximum video bitrate on BD is 40 mbps, and 9.8 mbps for DVD, so the high bitrate targets are very much appreciated. Both go around it in different ways, with the BD being better optimized so it can have very high spikes when needed, and the DVD having a near constant bitrate. Both approaches work just fine if the settings used are good, but optimization is clearly the prefered choice.

If you look at the graphs, you'll see that the runtimes are different. This is because the BD uses the TV broadcast version of the series, while the DVD uses the updated version originally created for Laserdisc. At first it may be unfortunate that the updated version isn't on the BD, but the good news is that the broadcast version has an official home video release. (I have read that the Nozomi DVD is the broadcast version, but as it has the OP in Episode 1- the big change in Episode 1, at least- it isn't the "true" broadcast version, nor do I own it, so I cannot confirm or deny this.)

Audio is in LPCM 2.0 (48kHz, 16-bit) 1536 kbps for the Blu-ray, and Dolby Digital 2.0 448 kbps on DVD. Despite the Blu-ray "technically" being better for being lossless, I cannot hear a describable difference between them. They sound fantastic, with no major issues to speak of.

But how does it look? That's the real question. I took 10 screencaps from the opening scene on both to compare. Both were taken using VirtualDub2, and the DVD caps are in an incorrect aspect ratio for some reason. I honestly couldn't find any settings to fix it. I can have it displayed correctly in VLC, but I cannot get it frame perfect as with VirtualDub2, so I decided to just leave it as-is. I may re-do the DVD caps if someone can suggest another good method to take them.

Now, for the actual comparison;

JP BD:









JP DVD:









JP DVD resized:









Slowpics Comparison:

https://slow.pics/c/JqSqRR6q

Now, neither one looks amazing, that's for sure. The Blu-ray is the "cleanest," but that's due to the Q-Tec FORS process. It does have some advantages, actually.

Look at Cap 5, where Yukino is laughing and the 「ふふふ」hiragana characters are scrolling up. There's a good deal less aliasing on the BD. Even in motion on the DVD, the aliasing there is noticeable, so this is an improvement. Also, in Cap 7, if you look at the structure holding the power lines, there's some pretty bad composite video rainbow artifacting, similar to Sonic the Hedgehog on the Mega Drive, but not as bad as that. On the BD, it's not fully been eliminated, but it is lessened. Cap 2 isn't perfect, as I'll show some major disadvantages in the next paragraph, but if we look at the girl's hand, the aliasing has been majorly reduced. It's still a bit unnaturally smooth, but I'd call it a major advantage. The biggest improvement is text, which has aliasing and composite rainbowing removed, and being a show with a TON of on-screen text, this is certainly a massive improvement over the DVD.

However, as one would expect with Q-Tec, there are downsides. Look at Cap 4. The two girls on the right have some weird artifacting on the DVD which has been eliminated on the BD, but some detail has been lost on their arms due to the smoothing applied, which gives some really ugly side effects. The best shown of those side effects are in Cap 2, where the arm, which, on the DVD has a combination of film grain and chroma noise, has been reduced to a smooth but unbelievably atrocious looking texture.This is unfortunate, as Q-Tec has in the past made remasters where they have removed chroma noise well with no side effects (the 4K remaster of Cardcaptor Sakura is one example), but probably because of the very low resolution composite video masters, it looks like crap here.

When comparing them, some issues are shared between them, and new issues created in the BD remastering which are different than the DVD, and are debatable which is "better" or "worse," like in Cap 8, where the black bars aren't fully black. The DVD has some colour banding and poor compression of the grain or noise that's there, while the BD removes the grain or noise, but replaces it with some worse colour banding.

The only thing I can say the BD does objectively better are the EDs and the next episode previews. These fully 30i live action segments benefit greatly from the higher bitrate of Blu-ray, and it appears that Q-Tec has only applied minimal filters to these segments, reducing the aliasing in the text by an insane degree. All the video noise has been retained, as they look as good as one could expect due to the H.264 compression and way higher bitrate of the BD format.

So, what is the best way to watch Kare Kano? It's debatable, but I'd say the JP DVD is better due to a more "filmic" image, if one can call a composite video master from a telecine "filmic." However, I would say that the best way to watch it is on a CRT outputting composite video. Sure, it does retain the issues of the DVD, but the composite video blurs the image a bit, reducing the compression artifacts to zero due to the analog conversion, as well as making the jump in quality between shots WAY less jarring than the BD. However, not everyone has a CRT, nor does everyone want one, so for a digital display, I'd say either the JP DVD or BD can work. The BD is more pleasing when blown up due to all the filtering applied, but there's obviously major drawbacks to it. However, if you're like me and want a really authentic experience even if it looks like crap on a TV that's at least 40" (my TV is a 55") due to being blown up, then I'd still recommend the JP DVD.

Q-Tec's filtering has done some good here, left some stuff the same, and made some things worse, so I guess the best release is either DVD or Laserdisc for now due to being the updated version, and having the least drawbacks. So, there is still no perfect version of Kare Kano, other than the original D2 tapes, I guess. If Nozomi can get their hands on the D2 tapes of the updated version of the show and have Justin make an SD-BD with lossless audio, then we'll have the objectively best release.

[Logan Jones]

YES! Justin Sevakis making an SD-BD would be the BEST option. You had the same idea as me.

Excellent review, BTW. Watching the JP DVDs on a CRT would look nice, since I have one. But since the Blu-ray release is the current version, most people will go to that one. Not me though...

I think the main reason why the US DVDs look worse than the R2 DVDs are because they are sourced from analog COPIES of the D-2 tapes to something like U-matic or Beta. (Just a hunch.) And the haloing everywhere was most likely because of the MPEG-2 authoring software having artificial sharpening baked into the footage by default. And to top it off, they encoded the video at the worst possible quality.

Anyway, great review!

[kk1]

You never picked up the Nozomi set? Surprised since it goes for less than $20

[NLScavenger]

I'm not familiar with how the MPEG2 stream is encoded, but it looks like the DVD caps were not deinterlaced or IVTC'd (whichever is applicable here) judging solely by the screenshot with 「ふふふ」. Also keep in mind that DVD does not use a square pixel format and that colorspace is Rec.601. In this case the caps need to be resized to 720x540 (filter > format).

I wouldn't use VirtualDub2 for interlaced Blu-ray / DVD screenshots, but that's just my opinion. It doesn't deinterlace/IVTC that very well and interlaced Blu-ray content generally needs to have the colorspace converted with avisynth script first.


-----------------------------------

Speaking of deinterlacing, anyone know a good deinterlacer for use in MPV that can handle DVD with mixed framerates?

I use this setting for mixed framerate NTSC DVD now (don't use the script on Blu-ray), which seems to work pretty well, except for shots that are 59.94i, such as the end credits scroll in The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya episode #00. The scrolling text is a bit jerky.

--vf=lavfi="fieldmatch=combmatch=full,bwdif=deint=interlaced:mode=1"

[Zhou]

Originally Posted by professorwho

If you look at the graphs, you'll see that the runtimes are different. This is because the BD uses the TV broadcast version of the series, while the DVD uses the updated version originally created for Laserdisc. At first it may be unfortunate that the updated version isn't on the BD, but the good news is that the broadcast version has an official home video release. (I have read that the Nozomi DVD is the broadcast version, but as it has the OP in Episode 1- the big change in Episode 1, at least- it isn't the "true" broadcast version, nor do I own it, so I cannot confirm or deny this.)

Are you sure the Kare Kano JP BD release was remastered from the broadcast video? I checked out episode 18 and the love scene is uncensored in it, while it's censored in the R1 DVDs, which were supposedly sourced from the broadcast masters.

Edit: the last disc even includes the TV version of said scene as an extra, presented in really bad quality SD. It also includes the TV versions of episodes 14-15 and some EDs that were changed in the home video version.

Edit 2: Japanese Wikipedia says the BD-box deliberately removed the OP from episode 1, which indicates the show was otherwise remastered from the home video version, not the broadcast one.

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

I'm not familiar with how the MPEG2 stream is encoded, but it looks like the DVD caps were not deinterlaced or IVTC'd (whichever is applicable here) judging solely by the screenshot with 「ふふふ」.

That's a good thing in my opinion, I think deinterlacing interlaced content for screenshots is a bad idea in general since it can fundamentally change the image in who-knows-what way depending on the method. IVTC would be fine of course but then you have to know what you're doing and trust that it's not causing any residual effects or dropping down into some deinterlacing mode. The optimal way is to simply choose frames that are not combing, but this will of course be impossible for sequences that are true interlaced and not just 3:2 pulldown.

The de-haloing on the BD is nice but not sure if it's worth the filtered and smeared look. A complete rescan and rebuild sure would be nice. They managed to do it for Serial Experiments Lain.

[BigOnAnime]

Too bad this is King Records we're talking about, they tend to be more cheap, hence why so many of their SD shows are sent off to Q-TEC to become oil paintings. The release for Serial Experiments Lain meanwhile was handled by Geneon Universal Entertainment Japan (now NBCUniversal Entertainment Japan).

[professorwho]

Originally Posted by kk1

You never picked up the Nozomi set? Surprised since it goes for less than $20

My main reason was that I'd rather save up for the JP DVDs than get a simply okay release in the meantime.

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

I'm not familiar with how the MPEG2 stream is encoded, but it looks like the DVD caps were not deinterlaced or IVTC'd (whichever is applicable here) judging solely by the screenshot with 「ふふふ」. Also keep in mind that DVD does not use a square pixel format and that colorspace is Rec.601. In this case the caps need to be resized to 720x540 (filter > format).

I wouldn't use VirtualDub2 for interlaced Blu-ray / DVD screenshots, but that's just my opinion. It doesn't deinterlace/IVTC that very well and interlaced Blu-ray content generally needs to have the colorspace converted with avisynth script first.

Yes, it's not de-interlaced at all. My thinking was similar to that of Pyoko's. Kare Kano is mixed frame rate, so a 2:3 pull-down would not work, as you get dropped frames in the digitally done elements, like the 「ふふふ」scene. If you go frame by frame on both the DVD or BD, the text moves up in a smooth speed of 30 fps (well, technically 29.98, but close enough), while the 2D animated portion of Yukino's cute smug face is at 24ish (more like 12 fps due to being animated on 2s). So an IVTC (for those who don't know- Inverse Telecine) would not work, resulting in dropped frames and other issues, so if you want to watch it correctly, then a straight de-interlace is best.

Originally Posted by Pyoko

The optimal way is to simply choose frames that are not combing, but this will of course be impossible for sequences that are true interlaced and not just 3:2 pulldown.

This was what I was attempting to do with the screenshots here, as well as the ones I took for Legend of the Galactic Heroes here. Main reason is because I still don't know the best way to take de-interlaced screenshots, but in the case of Kare Kano, it's impossible to have shots with digital text like the 「ふふふ」of Miyazawa laughing, as that's full 30i. A lot of stuff in my original post on Kare Kano, I stole from this page, so please look at it, as there are examples of the interlacing, IVTC impossibilities, and ghosting issues (which I never addressed).

Originally Posted by Zhou

Are you sure the Kare Kano JP BD release was remastered from the broadcast video? I checked out episode 18 and the love scene is uncensored in it, while it's censored in the R1 DVDs, which were supposedly sourced from the broadcast masters.

Edit: the last disc even includes the TV version of said scene as an extra, presented in really bad quality SD. Is also includes the TV versions of episodes 14-15 and some EDs that were changed in the home video version.

Edit 2: Japanese Wikipedia says the BD-box deliberately removed the OP from episode 1, which indicates the show was otherwise remastered from the home video version, not the broadcast one.

I haven't fully watched the BD, so I didn't get to check episode 18 to see if the scene was censored or not. That's a relief!

However, it's not all good news. Episodes 14 and 15 use the TV broadcast versions of the recaps, which means they only have music and visuals, with no voice acting. The Laserdisc release changed these, with new editing, new footage in place of the old recaps with some stuff added, some stuff removed, and a different runtime. If one wants to add subtitles to the JP DVDs, using the fully updated version, it's a pain. I did, but trust me, it took a while to do (in addition to having to alter timing, font size, placement, and other things).

If Kare Kano does get the SD-BD by Justin for Nozomi I hope it does, I'll still watch it on a CRT through a modded original Xbox playing the MKV rips from the disc. That's also the best way to watch the JP DVD on a CRT with subtitles- rip the discs, add in subs, play on modded OG Xbox.

[Zhou]

Originally Posted by professorwho

However, it's not all good news. Episodes 14 and 15 use the TV broadcast versions of the recaps, which means they only have music and visuals, with no voice acting. The Laserdisc release changed these, with new editing, new footage in place of the old recaps with some stuff added, some stuff removed, and a different runtime. If one wants to add subtitles to the JP DVDs, using the fully updated version, it's a pain. I did, but trust me, it took a while to do (in addition to having to alter timing, font size, placement, and other things).

Actually, the versions of episodes 14-15 with no spoken dialogue during the recap sections are the home video ones. You can tell because they credit Masahiko Ohtsuka and Ken Ando for composition and directing. The broadcast versions, which are present as SD extras in the fifth disc, feature spoken dialogue and credit producers Toshimichi Ohtsuki and Yuji Matsukura for composition.

In fact, the show's Japanese Wikipedia page says some interesting things about episode 14, sourced from interviews with Hideaki Anno, Hiroki Sato and Yuji Matsukura that were included in the BD box's booklet. Granted, I'm relying on Google Translator here, and anyone who's fluent in Japanese is welcome to correct me, but apparently TV Tokyo rejected Anno's original cut for the episode, and so the producers had to assemble their own cut. Then, the show's staff made a different cut for the home video release (the one with no voice acting), but Anno's own cut is apparently lost for good.

Also, it seems this whole imbroglio with episode 14 was one of the reasons why Anno ended up resigning as director (starting with episode 16, his name is not spelled in kanji in the opening credits anymore, and he shares the director credit with producer Hiroki Sato), the other being the higher-ups' dissatisfaction with his unusual production methods, which put pressure on the schedule. Still, he kept showing up everyday to do checks and issue instructions, and by the end he played a more active role supervising episode 26 due to its tight schedule, which I guess explains while he was co-credited for its storyboard, with his name properly spelled in kanji and everything.

[professorwho]

Originally Posted by Zhou

Actually, the versions of episodes 14-15 with no spoken dialogue during the recap sections are the home video ones. You can tell because they credit Masahiko Ohtsuka and Ken Ando for composition and directing. The broadcast versions, which are present as SD extras in the fifth disc, feature spoken dialogue and credit producers Toshimichi Ohtsuki and Yuji Matsukura for composition.

In fact, the show's Japanese Wikipedia page says some interesting things about episode 14, sourced from interviews with Hideaki Anno, Hiroki Sato and Yuji Matsukura that were included in the BD box's booklet. Granted, I'm relying on Google Translator here, and anyone who's fluent in Japanese is welcome to correct me, but apparently TV Tokyo rejected Anno's original cut for the episode, and so the producers had to assemble their own cut. Then, the show's staff made a different cut for the home video release (the one with no voice acting), but Anno's own cut is apparently lost for good.

Also, it seems this whole imbroglio with episode 14 was one of the reasons why Anno ended up resigning as director (starting with episode 16, his name is not spelled in kanji in the opening credits anymore, and he shares the director credit with producer Hiroki Sato), although they also say the higher-ups weren't happy with his unusual production method, which put pressure on the schedule. Still, he kept showing up everyday to do checks and issue instructions, and by the end he played a more active role supervising episode 26 due to its tight schedule, which I guess explains while he was credited for its storyboard, with his name properly spelled in kanji and everything.

I was going to correct myself on the whole broadcast vs TV of 14 and 15, but you beat me to it. Honestly, it's quite confusing, thus the confusion on my part.

Anyone here has the booklet, can you take pictures or scan it for me? I may be able to translate it if the text isn't too complicated (or I'll pay ultimatemegax to do so if he's up for it) and the scan/images are in good quality.

I did read about the episode 14 debacle once, and it sure is interesting. Very unfortunate we never got to see Anno's cut of the episode, and probably never will, seeing how he didn't even want to do Eva there initially, and some other crazy stuff that Frog-kun wrote about here.