The Anime Blu-ray Video Quality Thread

[KaizerChef]

Ride Your Wave (Anime Limited - UK 2020)

Appears to be a direct port of the Shout Factory disc (It even has the GKIDS logo at the beginning of the film)

Media-Info:

[Show spoiler]

General
Unique ID                      : 289755901954344964655042609103505012404 (0xD9FCF4F1BDCA18BEBF05DECEC1F936B4)
Format                         : Matroska
Format version                 : Version 2
File size                      : 25.0 GiB
Duration                       : 1 h 35 min
Overall bit rate mode          : Variable
Overall bit rate               : 37.5 Mb/s
Movie name                     : Ride Your Wave
Encoded date                   : UTC 2020-12-25 18:47:32
Writing application            : MakeMKV v1.15.3 win(x64-release)
Writing library                : libmakemkv v1.15.3 (1.3.10/1.5.2) win(x64-release)

Video
ID                             : 1
ID in the original source medi : 4113 (0x1011)
Format                         : AVC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                 : High@L4.1
Format settings                : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC         : Yes
Format settings, Reference fra : 4 frames
Codec ID                       : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                       : 1 h 35 min
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Bit rate                       : 33.5 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate               : 35.0 Mb/s
Width                          : 1 920 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 16:9
Frame rate mode                : Constant
Frame rate                     : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.673
Stream size                    : 22.3 GiB (89%)
Language                       : English
Default                        : No
Forced                         : No
Original source medium         : Blu-ray

Audio
ID                             : 2
ID in the original source medi : 4353 (0x1101)
Format                         : DTS XLL
Format/Info                    : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name                : DTS-HD Master Audio
Codec ID                       : A_DTS
Duration                       : 1 h 35 min
Bit rate mode                  : Variable / Constant
Bit rate                       : 3 875 kb/s / 1 509 kb/s
Channel(s)                     : 6 channels
Channel layout                 : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate                  : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                     : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth                      : 24 bits
Compression mode               : Lossless / Lossy
Stream size                    : 2.58 GiB (10%)
Title                          : Surround 5.1
Language                       : Japanese
Default                        : Yes
Forced                         : No
Original source medium         : Blu-ray

Text #1
ID                             : 3
ID in the original source medi : 4608 (0x1200)
Format                         : PGS
Codec ID                       : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                  : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration                       : 1 h 34 min
Bit rate                       : 38.9 kb/s
Count of elements              : 3492
Stream size                    : 26.4 MiB (0%)
Language                       : English
Default                        : No
Forced                         : No
Original source medium         : Blu-ray

Text #2
ID                             : 5
ID in the original source medi : 4609 (0x1201)
Format                         : PGS
Codec ID                       : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                  : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration                       : 1 h 30 min
Bit rate                       : 32.0 kb/s
Count of elements              : 2376
Stream size                    : 20.8 MiB (0%)
Language                       : English
Default                        : No
Forced                         : No
Original source medium         : Blu-ray

Text #3
ID                             : 7
ID in the original source medi : 4610 (0x1202)
Format                         : PGS
Codec ID                       : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                  : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration                       : 1 h 34 min
Bit rate                       : 32.4 kb/s
Count of elements              : 2372
Stream size                    : 21.9 MiB (0%)
Language                       : Spanish
Default                        : No
Forced                         : No
Original source medium         : Blu-ray

Text #4
ID                             : 9
ID in the original source medi : 4611 (0x1203)
Format                         : PGS
Codec ID                       : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                  : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration                       : 1 h 30 min
Bit rate                       : 34.8 kb/s
Count of elements              : 2376
Stream size                    : 22.6 MiB (0%)
Language                       : French
Default                        : No
Forced                         : No
Original source medium         : Blu-ray

Text #5
ID                             : 11
ID in the original source medi : 4612 (0x1204)
Format                         : PGS
Codec ID                       : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                  : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration                       : 1 h 28 min
Bit rate                       : 514 b/s
Count of elements              : 36
Stream size                    : 332 KiB (0%)
Language                       : English
Default                        : No
Forced                         : No
Original source medium         : Blu-ray

Menu
00:00:00.000                   : en:Chapter 01
00:06:45.405                   : en:Chapter 02
00:12:07.643                   : en:Chapter 03
00:18:27.064                   : en:Chapter 04
00:24:34.014                   : en:Chapter 05
00:31:26.009                   : en:Chapter 06
00:37:06.182                   : en:Chapter 07
00:42:39.390                   : en:Chapter 08
00:50:06.253                   : en:Chapter 09
00:57:33.450                   : en:Chapter 10
01:02:21.404                   : en:Chapter 11
01:07:57.364                   : en:Chapter 12
01:13:41.208                   : en:Chapter 13
01:18:44.636                   : en:Chapter 14
01:23:41.266                   : en:Chapter 15
01:28:18.668                   : en:Chapter 16
01:31:59.847                   : en:Chapter 17

[NLScavenger]

The combined size of Yuuna And The Haunted Hot Springs MVM UK discs is 67.468 GiB apparently.

That is an improvement over MVM's Anohana in terms of size, but whether the encoding is better than Anohana remains unknown

Originally Posted by Mangaranga

Cells can't be a clone. Aniplex's BD is 3 discs whereas the AUS/UK release is 2 discs.
I also got my copy of AnoHana in today and it's anything but a clone of the Aniplex release. It's on 2 BD25s @~3.6gb an episode with incorrect gamma and no chapter markers for the OP/EDs. Yay.

EDIT: Having checked the AoA BDMV size it appears all the episodes are all but exactly half the size of their Aniplex equivalents. Bitrate of episode 1 is just under 18mbps.

[Mangaranga]

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

The combined size of Yuuna And The Haunted Hot Springs MVM UK discs is 67.468 GiB apparently.

That is an improvement over MVM's Anohana in terms of size, but whether the encoding is better than Anohana remains unknown

Yuuna doesn't use Aniplex's encodes, but a quick look and comparison seems to suggest it's more or less identical to the Japanese BD.
That in itself isn't exactly a great thing though as there's an awful lot of banding, evidently in the source. Unlike AnoHana, there's no issues with incorrect Gamma or being encoded in the wrong colour space. The subtitles are yellow and the filesizes on disc range between ~5-6gb depending on the episode.

[BigOnAnime]

Originally Posted by kk1

No I'm talking about Blu-ray's they re-released as part of a complete collection etc. where they actually remastered the disc from the previous release instead of just repackaging the old discs.

It'd be easier to list what doesn't have a new disc. Them re-using old discs is uncommon.
https://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=839664

[NLScavenger]

Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid - Funimation US BD vs Pony Canyon JP BD

This is a very good release from Funimation.

US BD



JP BD



US BDInfo Episode #02

Disc Title: MissKobayashi_D1
Disc Label: MissKobayashi_D1
Disc Size: 49,087,764,646 bytes
Protection: AACS
Playlist: 00010.MPLS
Size: 6,878,416,896 bytes
Length: 0:23:42.003
Total Bitrate: 38.70 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 30998 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
Audio: English / Dolby TrueHD Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz /  2228 kbps / 16-bit (AC3 Embedded: 5.1 / 48 kHz /   448 kbps / DN -30dB)
Audio: Japanese / Dolby TrueHD Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz /   794 kbps / 16-bit (AC3 Embedded: 2.0 / 48 kHz /   192 kbps / DN -31dB)
Subtitle: English / 52.554 kbps
Subtitle: English / 9.056 kbps

JP BDInfo Episode #02

Size: 8,032,770,048 bytes
Length: 0:23:41.420
Total Bitrate: 45.21 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 35899 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
Audio: Japanese / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz /  2304 kbps / 24-bit
Audio: Japanese / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz /  2304 kbps / 24-bit
Audio: Japanese / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz /  2304 kbps / 24-bit
Subtitle: Japanese / 282.738 kbps

[kevers7290]

Originally Posted by Mangaranga

Which is why I've tried to highlight an actual good release after looking at so many awful ones in the last few days.
It's nice to look at a BD which isn't full of blocking and generally shit encoding. In the last few days alone I've looked at Violet Evergarden, the UK release of Birthday Wonderland (which also has the same issues as Violet), and Viz's One Punch Man S2 BD.

Sorry for quoting you on a week old post--do you have a comparison between the US/UK release of Wonderland (Birthday Wonderland)? Is one encoded better than the other? Thanks.

[Mangaranga]

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid - Funimation US BD vs Pony Canyon JP BD

This is a very good release from Funimation.

I came to the same conclusion previously, but I'm not sure whether it's because there's already a bunch of ugliness in the source.

Originally Posted by kevers7290

Sorry for quoting you on a week old post--do you have a comparison between the US/UK release of Wonderland (Birthday Wonderland)? Is one encoded better than the other? Thanks.

I don't I'm afraid, but the UK release was a completely independent encode from the US release due to the name change and concerns about GKids not having a track record of using the Home Video masters. The US BD should be the usual GKids affair, thus being pretty good. Whether it uses the theatrical master, and assming it does - whether there's any difference remains to be seen.

[disneywildcat]

Originally Posted by kevers7290

Sorry for quoting you on a week old post--do you have a comparison between the US/UK release of Wonderland (Birthday Wonderland)? Is one encoded better than the other? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Mangaranga

I don't I'm afraid, but the UK release was a completely independent encode from the US release due to the name change and concerns about GKids not having a track record of using the Home Video masters. The US BD should be the usual GKids affair, thus being pretty good. Whether it uses the theatrical master, and assming it does - whether there's any difference remains to be seen.

The Wonderland is not distributed by GKIDS.

https://www.elevenarts.net/titles/the-wonderland

It is distributed by Eleven Arts, although both companies distribute their titles for Home Media thru Shout Factory. Although unlike GKIDS titles, Eleven Arts titles tend to have Shout Studios and Shout Factory branding on their releases.

[Mangaranga]

I just assumed they were one and the same for some reason. I'm sure I've seen GKids logo on Shout titles. Either way, Shout's encode of Birthday Wonderland is probably fine A/V wise as their other titles have been. It's much more likely that they've used the theatrical master though.

[StuPod]

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid - Funimation US BD vs Pony Canyon JP BD

This is a very good release from Funimation.

I wonder what the bitrate in that first OP screenshot goes up to compared to the average across the episode.

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by StuPod

I wonder what the bitrate in that first OP screenshot goes up to compared to the average across the episode.

Around the timestamp of the frame
US BD: 39376 kbps
JP BD: 37393 kbps

[SpaceDandy]

Ergo Proxy (Italy / France - Dynit / Dybex)
Authoring: Dynit

Episode 3 captures (the first to have the opening)


Episode 3 bitrate plot

Media-Info of disc #1 (excl. dubs & subs):

[Show spoiler]

General
Unique ID                                : 59422036256783333216207993758242189907 (0x2CB44494FC5241DC57745B04DD063253)
File size                                : 39.6 GiB
Duration                                 : 2 h 37 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 35.9 Mb/s
Movie name                               : Ergo Proxy ~Blu-ray BOX~ DISC 01
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-12-31 09:58:54
Writing application                      : MakeMKV v1.15.4 darwin(x64-release)
Writing library                          : libmakemkv v1.15.4 (1.3.10/1.5.2) darwin(x64-release)

Video
ID                                       : 1
ID in the original source medium         : 4113 (0x1011)
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                                 : 2 h 37 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 32.2 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 39.5 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.647
Stream size                              : 35.5 GiB (90%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No
Original source medium                   : Blu-ray

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
ID in the original source medium         : 4354 (0x1102)
Format                                   : DTS XLL
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name                          : DTS-HD Master Audio
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 2 h 37 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 2 201 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel layout                           : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Stream size                              : 2.43 GiB (6%)
Title                                    : Surround 5.1
Language                                 : Japanese
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Original source medium                   : Blu-ray

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
ID in the original source medium         : 4354 (0x1102)
Format                                   : DTS
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 2 h 37 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 509 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel layout                           : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 1.67 GiB (4%)
Title                                    : Surround 5.1
Language                                 : Japanese
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No
Original source medium                   : Blu-ray

"Is this even a simple Blu-Ray?".

[omarchafa]

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

Here's another comparison, made by Mangaranga. Also includes a screenshot from a fansub release of Netflix stream. You can guess where this is going.

https://slow.pics/c/Z4cvoOv1

Wow, just wow. How can the FR BD make it look way worse than a freaking stream version?

Anyway, I was planning on buying the Funi's release of this show so I can finally watch it, but after hearing how the video is not so great and especially the use of Netflix English subs which I hate to buy anything that has the worst made subtitles ever, I'm going to skip out on this one and wait for a JP BD box and do a remux with fansubs once again.

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by omarchafa

Wow, just wow. How can the FR BD make it look way worse than a freaking stream version?

Lack of care for good quality control.

[NLScavenger]

I quickly checked some of yesterday's arrivals, so no bitrate info

Belladonna of Sadness - Cinelicious Pics US BD / Anime Limited UK BD

It's very much a shame that this suffers from I-frame pulsing. The I-frames show how this 4K remaster could have looked if compression was adequate.

Explanation of I-frame pulsing from Kentai's Dawn of the Dead Italian 4K remastered review:

Originally Posted by Kentai

If this were the only issue I'd do my best to look past it, but the compression is frustrating as well. The good news is that the artifacts aren't as blatantly ugly could be, but they're better described as an issue of consistency, rather than overall quality. The phrase "I-Frame Pulsing" has been used to describe the issue, and it's not a bad one because it does sum up the issue... but in terminology that means bugger all to anyone who's never actually encoded video before. So forgive me for giving a primer on this, but it's actually relevant to understanding where things may well have gone wrong.

Most of the video compression algorithms we use to this day - MPEG-1, MPEG-2, AVC, and now HEVC - are based around the notion that a sequence of frames have commonality that can be exploited and replicated between frames with minimal changes. These smaller segments compressed together are called Group Of Pictures - or a "GOP". While I sure didn't vote for them to be the defacto standard to Make Video Quality Great Again, the way their trickle-down compression works goes something like this:

I-Frames have the least level of compression, and are thus easiest to decode. They're also the largest frames in the GOP as a result. I-frame only videos are typically used for broadcasting and editing purposes for these very reasons, but have to have a dramatically higher bitrate to match quality with "Long GOP" compression as a result.

P-Frames reference the previous frames in the GOP, sequentially, until the next I-Frame is hit. These are smaller, but are slower to decode since they're ultimately referencing previous macroblocks. They're handy enough, and easier to read for certain applications without playback funkiness (ie: Media Servers), but if you're going down this road you may as well go all the way in.

B-Frames are even smaller at similar quality levels, but they work by pulling blocks from the frames both ahead and behind, making them an absolute beast to play back on weaker hardware, and more or less impossible to get to function outside of standard forward playback without hitches.

A typical MPEG-2 GOP may look something like "IBBBPBBBPBBB", at which point another I-Frame gets punched in and the pattern repeats. AVC is a bit more flexible in that it can have GOP sizes from 1 to 250 frames without playback taking a hit, but smaller GOP sizes lead to higher quality, and as a way to avoid decoding issues Blu-ray specifically demands a 24-frame max GOP for standard progressive content.

Still with me after all that nerd shit? Cool! So, what happens when your bitrate is adequate and your I-Frames look great, but your B-Frames and P-Frames aren't encoded to the same standard - either because you did a one-pass encode that doesn't properly allocate the bits where they need to go, or because your multipass algorithms are straight up crap? It means that some frames are nice and crisp and sharp and look like your high quality master, and then the next several frames - while perhaps not terrible - are substantially softer, more diffused, and uneven looking compared to the I-Frames. In other words, the good frames "pulse" in and out, while the bulk of the transfer is the fuzzier, blotchier B/P-Frames that aren't anywhere near to the same standard.

Left: I-frame | Right: next B- or P-frame






Martian Successor Nadesico - Nozomi US BD / Anime Limited UK BD

Shit looks rough and it's obviously not just because of the aliasing problems.

[Mangaranga]

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

Explanation of I-frame pulsing from Kentai's Dawn of the Dead Italian 4K remastered review:

That was actually pretty insightful to read. I now understand what you meant when you said that was the problem with Birthday Wonderland.

[Dailyan]

I watched the UHD of "Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro". I A/B'ed it with the Discotek Blu.

The UHD features some additional "cleanup" work on top of the old master. I found this to be more noticeable in backgrounds and they're now blurrier than they should. In terms of color grading the biggest difference I noticed is that blues tend to look more "pronounced" and/or looked a bit more like in the pre-Miyazaki Collection/Discotek HD master (specifically more in the "night" scenes); the yellow-ish overcast/tint-push from the old Blu is basically gone but I did notice that in more darker areas like blacks and greys (especially Jigen's suit) could have a slight purple or blue bias from time to time. I would say this isn't as bad as some of TMS' other 4K masters but it's disappointing that TMS felt the need to do more "cleanup" work.

The "7.1" track is a complete joke and it's fake stereo garbage. Phase-y as shite. It amazes me how lazy TMS is to create a legit remix but yet Manga's dub from twenty years ago is more legit stereo (though I still don't care for them replacing the gun sound effects with "modern" ones).

[sagadego]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

I watched the UHD of "Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro". I A/B'ed it with the Discotek Blu.

The UHD features some additional "cleanup" work on top of the old master. I found this to be more noticeable in backgrounds and they're now blurrier than they should. In terms of color grading the biggest difference I noticed is that blues tend to look more "pronounced" and/or looked a bit more like in the pre-Miyazaki Collection/Discotek HD master (specifically more in the "night" scenes); the yellow-ish overcast/tint-push from the old Blu is basically gone but I did notice that in more darker areas like blacks and greys (especially Jigen's suit) could have a slight purple or blue bias from time to time. I would say this isn't as bad as some of TMS' other 4K masters but it's disappointing that TMS felt the need to do more "cleanup" work.

The "7.1" track is a complete joke and it's fake stereo garbage. Phase-y as shite. It amazes me how lazy TMS is to create a legit remix but yet Manga's dub from twenty years ago is more legit stereo (though I still don't care for them replacing the gun sound effects with "modern" ones).

imo funimation creates damn good 5.1 upmixes

[Yuripa]

In addition to the other problem it seem's that Violet evergarden UK/FR BD use the TV/Netflix master, not the JP BD master.

https://imgsli.com/MzcyMTc

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by Yuripa

In addition to the other problem it seem's that Violet evergarden UK/FR BD use the TV/Netflix master, not the JP BD master.

https://imgsli.com/MzcyMTc

I wonder if the screenshot was taken at the same moment. (EDIT: was different frame, so it uses BD master)

-----------------------------------

Turn A Gundam - Bandai JP BD vs Nozomi US BD

professorwho wrote about the Nozomi BD previously in this post. I'm on the fifth disc now and so far I'm satisfied with the Nozomi BD unlike professorwho, but the compression could have been better and the Q-TEC processing is unfortunate. Bandai BD is of course better in compression department.

I matched three screenshots to professorwho's post, though I did take my own screenshots because of a rounding error that made the artifacting in first screenshot look worse.

Bandai BD left / Nozomi BD middle / professorwho's Nozomi BD screenshot right


Bandai BD left / Nozomi BD right





Bandai BD


Nozomi BD


Bandai BD episode #1 bitrate

AVG: 30336 kbps / MAX: 41766 kbps

Nozomi BD episode #1 bitrate

AVG: 29979 kbps / MAX: 50906 kbps

Bandai BD episode #2 bitrate

AVG: 30397 kbps / MAX: 43250 kbps

Nozomi BD episode #2 bitrate

AVG: 29103 kbps / MAX: 61259 kbps

Bandai and Nozomi BDs both have 2.0 PCM 16bit 48kHz audio.