The Anime Blu-ray Video Quality Thread

[Logan Jones]

I'm a big fan of Steins Gate and have been meaning to watch it again. I heard the Italian release encoded by Mp3dom removes the banding that was caused by inferior master copies and/or poor compression...

But unfortunately, no english subs... I suppose there may be a way to use SRT files via my softmodded PS3? What do you guys think?

[BigOnAnime]

The banding was in the source, it was on both the Japanese and English releases with it being much worse on the latter. Banding often can appear in the source for digital productions.

[professorwho]

Originally Posted by Logan Jones

I'm a big fan of Steins Gate and have been meaning to watch it again. I heard the Italian release encoded by Mp3dom removes the banding that was caused by inferior master copies and/or poor compression...

But unfortunately, no english subs... I suppose there may be a way to use SRT files via my softmodded PS3? What do you guys think?

Yes, the Dynit release encoded by mp3dom fixes things. And yes, it is a source limitation, however, FUNimation did nothing to fix it (no dithering was applied) and only made things worse with their awful encoding settings.

It is worth getting if you like the series, as mp3dom and crew did excellent work to remove as much as possible without removing detail, as in, there still is banding, but when it has detail that could've been removed by filtering without thought.

If you want examples of horrible banding in the source, Umineko is the prime example- the Japanese BDs have some of, if not the most banding on an anime BD, while the NIS America has significantly less because Justin filtered it the same way mp3dom did. I honestly wish he did the same with Lupin III Part IV, as that also has a sh*t ton of banding, but there are always factors as to why a title may or may not get fixed and in what way.

Kizumonogatari is also really bad in that area, even on the CG elements, which means something really went wrong (banding is far more common on 2D art than 3D, though the latter can happen), and the Fate/Heaven's Feel films also have some really bad banding on the JP BDs, again filtered by mp3dom and co for the Dynit releases.

[Logan Jones]

Well the Dynit release sounds like the one to get, I guess. But the lack of english subs is still an issue. How do you guys get around it? Blu-ray drive and VLC with SRT files?

[professorwho]

Originally Posted by Logan Jones

Well the Dynit release sounds like the one to get, I guess. But the lack of english subs is still an issue. How do you guys get around it? Blu-ray drive and VLC with SRT files?

Pretty much. If you go this route, I can walk you through step-by-step via PMs if you want help.

[Logan Jones]

Sure. I appreciate it! I'll hold on to that offer, then.

[ryayan855]

Originally Posted by Cplhicks

Anybody make the mistake of buying the Jubei 2 blu-ray? I compared it to my original DVDs, and even though it doesn't have the DVD compression artifacts I think it looks worse because it has been so smeared. I am not really capable of proper screenshots but I wanted to let people know it looks terrible. Any future MB upscales I will wait for reviews.

That's something I'd like to know more about. Could I get a second opinion about the picture quality of this blu-ray?

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by Logan Jones

Well the Dynit release sounds like the one to get, I guess. But the lack of english subs is still an issue. How do you guys get around it? Blu-ray drive and VLC with SRT files?

I just rip the full BD or MKV in MakeMKV and watch with external subtitles in MPV.

I wouldn't use VLC because of the poor chroma upscaling.

If you really want to watch it on a softmodded PS3, you could rip the full BD, re-author with subtitles from Funi BD, mount re-authored BD on PS3 from an external NTFS HDD. Not worth the trouble IMO.

[SpaceDandy]

Originally Posted by professorwho

The DTS 2.0 cores on Steins;Gate are 640 kbps, so I’m 95% positive it’s the work of mp3dom.

I was told that at some point but I could not verify it for sure. Updated post.

Originally Posted by Logan Jones

I'm a big fan of Steins Gate and have been meaning to watch it again. I heard the Italian release encoded by Mp3dom removes the banding that was caused by inferior master copies and/or poor compression...

But unfortunately, no english subs... I suppose there may be a way to use SRT files via my softmodded PS3? What do you guys think?

If you're a sucker for physical extras such as artbooks, buy the later labomen print (discs are still better than FUNi's) and the Dynit release

[professorwho]

Originally Posted by Logan Jones

Blu-ray drive and VLC with SRT files?

Seeing Scavenger’s response made me realize that I assumed you’d be ripping the disc to add in subtitles. That is the best approach, but if you did, you’d want to make a backup so each episode is its own m2ts file, as Dynit like Discotek tends to have the single playlist option which is great for getting a bitrate reading, but not to add in subs. But again, I’ll help you if you do end up getting it.

[neoz]

Via their FB page. In regard to the Cyber City Oedo 808 release.

Anime Limited
Cyber City Oedo 808 was a restored upscale - that means there are certain things that were possible and some that weren't on this project with regard to image quality, as it depends on a lot of different factors. For a restoration of this nature, it naturally won't be comparable to a 4K rescan (for example), but as a whole it is still a marked improvement on prior releases in the English speaking world.

· Reply · 20h

Jon Dracup
Anime Limited And no one is suggesting or saying it should look like 4K content.
But there ARE definite picture problems that should NOT be there at all, in any kind of video encode - be that DVD, or Blu-Ray.
Please go back and check, because there are problems with it, and these need to be fixed! If you don’t, you’ll end up with a lot of angry customers, and people will be returning their copies for a full refund.
Your post, as it stands, sounds like you are deflecting from the issue, rather than understanding why your customers aren’t happy!
This is NOT a good stance to be taking!

· Reply · 20h · Edited

Anime Limited
Jon Dracup The example of a 4K scan was just an example of one of the many ways of performing a restoration out there. On this occasion, Cyber City Oedo 808 was a restored upscale which means there are things which are possible and things which are not.
We understand that there were high expectations for this release though, and it's sometimes hard to balance these expectations in advance against the reality of what is actually possible. This restoration, based on the same materials as have been used before in other releases, does exhibit all of the same features that were present in those editions, but the process of upscaling a title can cause these characteristics to appear in a pronounced or less pronounced form. This is in spite of the work carried out to filter out or retouch a lot of these issues, manually in places.
We're passionate about all of our products too, and if you do want to follow up on anything else here, we're happy to discuss the subject further via our contact us email at: shop.uk@alltheanime.com

Kaos Crumpet
I checked my copy today after reading comments on here and whilst it's not perfect, it's certainly better than my original pristine VHS copy and DVD copies I've seen.
· Reply · 18h

Jon Dracup
Anime Limited I’ll E-Mail you later on the week.
As I’ve said elsewhere, I DO love your company, and I DO love the fact you’ve released this specific title. But, I’m genuinely not convinced that the restoration work is as good as you believe it to be, or that something hasn’t gone wrong somewhere between the restoration work being completed, and what has ended-up on the disc itself. ��
And that for me, is the main problem. This looks poorly transferred, and there are masses of visual issues in Episode 1 that shouldn’t have been there, even if:
A - the material you started out with wasn’t pristine, or in Hi-Def, and
B - the material is an upscale.
Please can I implore someone to rewatch Episode 1 from a retail disc, and then tell all of us who purchased it, that all of the crushed black mosaicing is deliberate and meant to be there, because I’d bet dollars-to-doughnuts, that it shouldn’t be.

[HyugaKojiro]

For releases like Cyber City Oedo 808 and Angel Cop I'd really wish the more fan-centric anime companies like Discotek and Anime Limited would include the original SD movie as an extra.

As the response by AL above alludes to there are almost always pros and cons when it comes to upscaling. Giving users the choice which version to watch is the best solution. When it comes to audio Discotek goes the extra mile and includes older dubs which is cool but would love to see equivalent in the video department for short OVA series or movies that are upscaled.

[SpaceDandy]

It's never good for one western distributor to do their own upscale if the blu-ray does not exist in Japan. The budget is just not the same. There only very few instances where the upscale from the west is better than the one from Japan.
They should have released a SDBD or reissued it on DVD rather.

Now, what I would like to hear are the reasons why Cyber City Oedo 808 was not remastered in Japan? Not popular there? The reels are lost?

[Mangaranga]

Originally Posted by SpaceDandy

It's never good for one western distributor to do their own upscale if the blu-ray does not exist in Japan. The budget is just not the same. There only very few instances where the upscale from the west is better than the one from Japan.
They should have released a SDBD or reissued it on DVD rather.

Now, what I would like to hear are the reasons why Cyber City Oedo 808 was not remastered in Japan? Not popular there? The reels are lost?

I don't think that's a very fair comment to make. Money definitely isn't a deciding factor, and depending who's doing it you can get very good results by upscaling an SD source.

Take Honey and Clover for example - the Japanese BD is an awful smeary QTEC 1080i30 upscale. The US BD is actually a really good straight 1080p24 upscale which looks infinitely better than the Japanese counterpart. The problem is that as well as needing a competent encoder to upscale and encode the BD, you need a good source to start with. Evidently in the case of Cyber City Oedo they were likely still dealing with an old master rather than the updated Japanese one, as the Japanese DVD absolutely wipes the floor with it - either that or the person who did the upscale did an awful job of it (We know at least that it wasn't Justin).

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by Mangaranga

I don't think that's a very fair comment to make. Depending who's doing it you can get very good results by upscaling an SD source.

Take Honey and Clover for example - the Japanese BD is an awful smeary QTEC 1080i30 upscale. The US BD is actually a really good straight 1080p24 upscale which looks infinitely better than the Japanese counterpart. The problem is that as well as needing a competent encoder to upscale and encode the BD, you need a good source to start with. Evidently in the case of Cyber City Oedo they were likely still dealing with an old master rather than the updated Japanese one, as the Japanese DVD absolutely wipes the floor with it - either that or the person who did the upscale did an awful job of it (We know at least that it wasn't Justin).

Raphael Scream - YouTube

[Mangaranga]

I should add as well that I've only seen a few images from the BD as well as some footage from the Youtube documentary, and the BD evidently suffers from black crush and all sorts of other ugly artifacts.

[BlaizeV]

I was disappointed to learn that Cyber City was an upscale. I think what I find most frustrating about this is that the simple fact it was an upscale wasn't communicated much at all. I only learned of it yesterday and I follow all this stuff more than your average consumer of even niche titles like this tends to.

I assumed this was going to get a proper transfer due to the timeline from announcement to release (in Anime Limited's case this was many years) as well as assuming that while there isn't a blu ray in Japan yet there is a chance a film print of some kind might be in the UK due to the more interesting history this title has in the UK. This latter part was naive on my part but still...

I'm likely to still buy this upcoming BD as currently I only have the final collection which is an overly stacked release on a single dvd. I did have the volumes once upon a time but sold them. I will probably keep the dvd anyway and just have the BD too like I do for Angel Cop.

I strongly agree though with @HyugaKojiro that when upscaling content of this vintage i.e Cel animation. I think including the original in SD-BD type quality as an extra is a must. Discotek themselves have done this before though for different reasons as their Arcadia of My Youth release has the film in SD full frame as an extra.

I always imagined if Discotek were to do a Sherlock Hound Blu Ray set they would do the Japanese version in HD while also including the English episodes in SD. Makes the most sense to me and I think this example should be used as and when they can and as much as they can.

Though I do know this is also much much much much easier to say and request than it is to pull off.

Overall I just want slightly better communication about what is and isn't an upscale. Cyber City here has kind of become the perfect example for why.

[SpaceDandy]

Originally Posted by Mangaranga

I don't think that's a very fair comment to make. Money definitely isn't a deciding factor, and depending who's doing it you can get very good results by upscaling an SD source.

Take Honey and Clover for example - the Japanese BD is an awful smeary QTEC 1080i30 upscale. The US BD is actually a really good straight 1080p24 upscale which looks infinitely better than the Japanese counterpart. The problem is that as well as needing a competent encoder to upscale and encode the BD, you need a good source to start with. Evidently in the case of Cyber City Oedo they were likely still dealing with an old master rather than the updated Japanese one, as the Japanese DVD absolutely wipes the floor with it - either that or the person who did the upscale did an awful job of it (We know at least that it wasn't Justin).

I did not say western companies could not do it properly. Just yesterday I was talking about how people preferred FMP?Fumoffu FUNi's upscale to the japanese one. The problem is more that as western companies (usually) don't have the raw material, they're less likely to be able to do something good. We both have the same point, I might have been unclear in my previous post (never good should have been rarely).
As a plus, the release extra do feel nice, especially the documentary they've made. I just think they should have stuck to DVD.

[BoscoTheMan82]

If I've followed things correctly Cyber City's upscale was done by Justin, don't know where your getting it wasn't

[Jeo]

Here are a handful of screenshots from the beginning of Cyber City Oedo 808. It should be said, for as bad as these shots make this look, it's even worse in motion. Whenever there's that weird bitcrush-like artefacting or whatever it is onscreen, it's constantly moving/flickering, and it looks absolutely awful.

https://i.imgur.com/wSof863.png
https://i.imgur.com/247ggLE.png
https://i.imgur.com/i58M5TB.png
https://i.imgur.com/rnvEAsk.png