The Anime Blu-ray Video Quality Thread

[Naiera]

[BigOnAnime]

Houston, we have a problem.
https://twitter.com/simonm094/status/720333110223581184

Yet he managed to get A Lull in the Sea perfect. And Sentai manages to seemingly get the brightness/colors right too. This issue...

[mp3dom]

My god... I don't want to be too "harsh", really... but if a professional is questioning why this is happening, he give up as he doesn't get the clue... moreover thinks that it's gotta be a master file issue and he's not fully convinced that he's working in the wrong way ... then it's really a "big no". Sorry but I can't read and accept this from a professional.

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by mp3dom

My god... I don't want to be too "harsh", really... but if a professional is questioning why this is happening, he give up as he doesn't get the clue... moreover thinks that it's gotta be a master file issue and he's not fully convinced that he's working in the wrong way ... then it's really a "big no". Sorry but I can't read and accept this from a professional.

If the screencaps are correct and indeed representative of what's on the discs then I would agree, very unprofessional, I really expected better from him.

This is of course a BT601/709 conversion error, hardly an obscure issue. The video was likely converted from YCbCr to RGB using one matrix and then converted back to YCbCr using the other one, causing a shift in colors. Or the master file was created using the wrong matrix in the first place. Or whoever took those screenshots messed up.

Also why is Lupin so much softer? The JP BD does have some mild ringing/sharpening but the US BD is still clearly lower resolution. It's not 1080i is it?

[mp3dom]

Originally Posted by Pyoko

This is of course a BT601/709 conversion error, hardly an obscure issue.

Yeah, you hit the target! Congrats
Took less than 10sec to fix this:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/169521
(not to say that the right way is to NOT do any conversion in the first place)

Or the master file was created using the wrong matrix in the first place.

Really easy to spot: compare the encoded file against the master source. If they've the same colors, the master have wrong matrix to start with (quite difficult to be honest since now the same master is spread worldwide so exactly same problems should occour everywhere and not only in US). If the colors are wrong, then the encoding process is wrong.

Also why is Lupin so much softer? The JP BD does have some mild ringing/sharpening but the US BD is still clearly lower resolution. It's not 1080i is it?

Low-pass filtered video, so the high frequencies are attenuated causing softness and others mild drawbacks.

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by mp3dom

If they've the same colors, the master have wrong matrix to start with (quite difficult to be honest since now the same master is spread worldwide so exactly same problems should occour everywhere and not only in US).

I agree it seems less likely, but it's not exactly unheard of for them to send inferior, modified or even broken masters to licensees.

Low-pass filtered video, so the high frequencies are attenuated causing softness and others mild drawbacks.

Yes, but why is it there? Another encoding flub or intentional sabotage on the part of TMS (see above)?

[pikagreg]

You guys should send this kind of info to Justin to see if he has any input. Most of us don't have the technical expertise to find the "why" some of these releases look inferior other than "sentai is lazy" or "**** viz". Any helpful info to the right person could help us in the long run.

[jsevakis]

Hi there. Thought I'd pop on here, and I understand my limited space in a tweet might have meant that I came across as caring about this matter less than I did.

In regards to the color conversion issue, that is indeed a BT601/709 conversion issue. Here's the problem: the master ProRes files I get are never, ever labeled. After this came up with discs I made last year, I added a colorspace conversion to my encode chain. However both Lupin III: Jigen's Gravestone and Love Live S2 were produced after I added that. So either those were delivered in BT.709 and my blindly converting it threw it off, OR that filter isn't working properly.

Here's the problem: when I get a project, I basically never get the Japanese disc to check the colors against. My encode looks just like the ProRes (or color shifted slightly if I added the BT601/709 converter). I have absolutely no idea if what I'm working with is in the color mode I'm expecting it to be in.

As for the banding on Lupin, I have no clue. I did nothing different with that disc than I did with other discs, so I can only chalk that up to a masters issue. But I will say that I highly, HIGHLY doubt anything was maliciously done to it, knowing the people involved. Perhaps it just got dubbed to HD-CAM at some point, which would've axed some of the horizontal resolution and could well have introduced some banding. I have no idea. I was just given a file and told "make a disc." I did nothing in that process that would alter colors or reduce detail (the only time I do the latter is when I'm handed a crap upscale and I have to downscale it again to fix some things).

So yeah, I'm a little frustrated, because I'm trying very hard to fix this, but I don't find out about any issues until months after the work is done and it's too late to fix anything.

[jsevakis]

Even more bizarre: I turned in A Lull In The Sea BEFORE I added the BT601/709 conversion to my encodes. So that one was done with the exact same procedures as all of the discs before it WITH the problem!!

[mp3dom]

I think we should move to PM, since here would be difficult for others to understand (and not so useful). Give me some time...

[pikagreg]

Sucks this stuff is so stressful to you, looking forward to the Skip Beat BD (So close~ ) and Magic Knight Rayearth!

[jsevakis]

Originally Posted by mp3dom

I think we should move to PM, since here would be difficult for others to understand (and not so useful). Give me some time...

I welcome conversation either here, or via Twitter PM, and thank you in advance for any help you might be able to offer.

[jsevakis]

Originally Posted by pikagreg

Sucks this stuff is so stressful to you, looking forward to the Skip Beat BD (So close~ ) and Magic Knight Rayearth!

Thanks, and no condolences needed -- I'd stress out about any job I care a lot about.

Obviously Skip Beat I haven't started on yet, but Rayearth just got sent to the replicator this week. So hopefully a street date should be announced soon. Discotek is a little unpredictable on their timing. But we actually fixed quite a few little things that made it to the JP BD, so I'm hoping everyone will be very happy with it.

[Girls With Guns]

yes, we're very much looking forward to sending you some more work via the Skip Beat! Kickstarter - just a few hours, a few thousand to go to the Blu-ray stretch goal... get the ol' swivel-chair rollers oiled up and ready to move, Justin!

[Sylontack]

Originally Posted by jsevakis

Hi there. Thought I'd pop on here, and I understand my limited space in a tweet might have meant that I came across as caring about this matter less than I did.

Honestly thanks for coming on to clarify this, we can only get so far from the perspective of the fans- and obviously there comes a point where we come off as unappreciative a-holes, not hard to be that behind a keyboard on a passionate topic .
Will be interesting to see if you appear on occasion to put your 2 cents in on this thread in the future but only time will tell

[jsevakis]

Originally Posted by Sylontack

Honestly thanks for coming on to clarify this, we can only get so far from the perspective of the fans- and obviously there comes a point where we come off as unappreciative a-holes, not hard to be that behind a keyboard on a passionate topic .
Will be interesting to see if you appear on occasion to put your 2 cents in on this thread in the future but only time will tell

Hahaha, I've wanted to before, but most of the time professionalism and/or a non-disclosure prevented me from doing so. Discotek gives me pretty wide berth, though.

And I appreciate that, caustic though we may all come across occasionally, there are knowledgable fans out there that can help with matters like this. I can honestly say that I would not have the career I have if it weren't for people like you guys pointing me in the right direction. So, please know that your high standards and your willingness to help is deeply appreciated.

mp3dom has suggested to me a few changes to my workflow that may correct this. I have several encodes going right now to test it, so we should find out shortly. If it does work, there are some discs from a few years ago that will likely remain a mystery, but without having the materials on hand to go back and redo them (even partially), that's unavoidable I'm afraid.

[SeaFox]

Originally Posted by jsevakis

Here's the problem: when I get a project, I basically never get the Japanese disc to check the colors against. My encode looks just like the ProRes (or color shifted slightly if I added the BT601/709 converter). I have absolutely no idea if what I'm working with is in the color mode I'm expecting it to be in.

I'm sorry, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this reason. If they don't supply you with a copy, why don't you just import a copy of their release yourself? Given that the Japanese production companies always want a lead time of months to years between their own domestic home video release and any U.S. release (because of reverse importation fears), their version will be out and available at the time you start working, right?

People are using the differences between your release and the JDM in color matching, framing, and banding issues to decide which to get... or if they should buy any. Given the amount of money we're talking about I'd think obtaining their version for comparison is a good idea, It pays for itself in a literal handful of additional sales.

[Sylontack]

Originally Posted by SeaFox

I'm sorry, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this reason. If they don't supply you with a copy, why don't you just import a copy of their release yourself?

That would be out of his own pay and cost more than its worth on a case by case basis?

[SeaFox]

Originally Posted by Sylontack

That would be out of his own pay and cost more than its worth on a case by case basis?

I didn't mean Justin personally. I meant the U.S. company he is mastering the disc for. They stand to benefit the most from it. Penny wise, pound foolish.

[kk1]

Originally Posted by SeaFox

I didn't mean Justin personally. I meant the U.S. company he is mastering the disc for. They stand to benefit the most from it. Penny wise, pound foolish.

Seems logical doesn't it? Though going by my own workplace, the logical course of action is usually the last thing management thinks to implement.