Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[Atreyu]

i think in a little while as blu becomes more and more popular you will see the prices of them go down. Yes the studios are not rushng to put all their films onto blu just yet, but in time I think they will, after all they did pretty much the same thing when dvds first came out.
And l remember laserdiscs and having to wait, sometimes mon nths, for a new release to hit laser.
The disc version of Beta was the HD player and it's well... already a dinosaur.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by KrugStillo

I completely understand your point but maybe I didn't state myself clear enough. It's a different situation then just putting smaller files on larger medium. We are talking about the ability to actually provide 2 or 4K High-Def transfers. There are many companies that don't even have source material good enough to support that. If you can't clean up an old print it will look atrocious in High-Def.

Or they'll press them on BDs in 480p with lossless audio like they did with the episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine on the Star Trek TOS season 2 set.

Or they'll just flat-out upscale them like they're doing for the release of the Highlander TV series on Blu-ray.

But considering the time when DVD players are no longer made and BD costs about the same to press as DVD, they're not going to go out of their way to get press DVDs, even if their source material is SD digital video.

[rjg77vett]

Monika:

You should embrace the new BD technology. Prices on HDTVs and BD players have come down to where they're affordable by all - as you know from shopping at Best Buy and Wal-mart, etc. You obviously like to watch movies. Watching in a 16x9 format with clarity that's several times that of DVDs makes it all worthwhile - that's why you would "love to have a BD player", as you admit. BD players go for less than $200. Displays can be had for prices less than $500. Recently, I bought an economical 5:1 audio system for $400 that works fine. Or you can simply use the TV speakers (if they come with the display). Blu-ray movies vary from $9.99 to $29.99 on Amazon. Also consider the cheap expense of renting movies at Netflix or the supermarket kiosks.

Even if you have a collecton of DVDs, they can still be played on most Blu-ray players. I remember collecting Beta movies in the 80s and then finally having to move on to DVD format and then within the last 2 years to Blu-ray. Each upgrade brings more appreciation for watching your favorite movies. Times change and you eventually must change with it. You may even have to reprioritize your shopping list.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Coqui2k

Blu-ray Still Struggling to Find Customers
by Monika Bartyzel Oct 13th 2009 // 12:15PM

Filed under: Home Entertainment

I remember strolling through my local Blockbuster 10 years ago, sure that they couldn't switch to 100% DVDs in a few years. The idea seemed ridiculously optimistic. But in the blink of an eye, DVD took over and we barely had time to wave goodbye to shelves of VHS tapes.

Sorry Monika, but it actually took DVD 7 years to outrent VHS.
Facts are a biyotch.

[phatrat1982]

All I know is I am 1 of two people I know who have a Blu Ray player and OUR stores are sending mixed signals, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Shop-Ko are all shrinking their blu Ray shelf Space, Best Buy, Target, Fred Meyer are all growing theirs. I never shop online except for classic G1 Transformers because for that I have no choice. But I see prices going up and down too. K-Mart and Shop-Ko price ALL their Blu Rays the same, $30.00 no matter what the title is. Wal-Mart prices them in line with Target which is usually $25 dollars for new movies, $15.00 for older ones. ONLY Best Buy offers wide variety of product and prices. We had a big sale of several movies for $10.00 this past week, they consistently have movies in the $15 to $20.00 range nobody else comes close to that. The exception is Twister, the ONE friggin movie I want but nobody will sell it for less than $25.00 and right now I just won't pay that much for that movie. All other movies on Blu Ray are priced just right for the title.

Somebody above complained they *only* make 300 a WEEK, damn man i only make that in a two week period so from where I stand you got a lot more money than I do.


I know I *want* blu ray to succeed, I really do, but it if turns into the next Laser Disc, who cares laser Disc had a nearly 30 year lifespan, if DVD can manage to pull off what VHS had and BR can manage what LD had then both formats are in a good position.

As of right now, only 3 years in, it is doing no worse than LS was 3 years into it's life, and LD didn't just compete with VHS/Beta it also had Selectavision to compete with also. Then in the 90's it had to ward off VCD and struggle until DVD killed it off.

Blu Ray killed their "equal" (HD-DVD in less time it took LaserDisc to kill their "equal" so from that stand point their doing good. When Laser Disc was on the market it had FOUR formats to compete with, Blu Ray has 2 DVD and Downloads. So far it's gained a roughly 12% overall market share, Laser Disc never had more than 2% TOTAL so by those numbers Blu Ray is doing pretty damn good.

The fastest internet I can get is 3MEG DSL and I have to pay $80 a month to GET THAT where I live. If I moved to town I could get 8MEG internet for $60.00 a month but I don't make enough money yet to do that.

If I wanted to go digital downloads I would be in for some trouble. I already have DirecTV VOD and that is reasonably fast for SD movies and TV shows, it takes as much time to download a movie in HD as it does to watch the movie, which means if I plan on downloading a movie "on demand" I have to plan ahead when I want to do so. Not to mention DirecTV charges More for their HD movies on demand than they do the same movie SD and their HD quality is not that great.

I do plan on buying one of those WDHD Media thingies they have at Best Buy but only for the movies I already have downloaded not as a way to watch Youtube or any of that garbage.

Point is while I see evidence Blu Ray will succeed I also see evidence it could become niche also. Either way I am fine with my purchase and will continue to push the format on everyone I know with HDTV's and push HDTV on those I know who don't, which is more than who do where I live but hey we are a very small town. Those Best Buy and Target stores I mention all the time, I have to drive 48 miles to get to.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by jabbayoda

I don't necessarily agree with the author of the original post, but what does someone's economic status or amount of disposable income have to do with their ability to analyze trends and stats and come up with a projection for the future?

It indicates bias, rooted in jealousy...which will go away as soon as she spends $700 on a 32" TV and a store-brand blu player, hooked up to her "stereo".

She is in no position to analyze trend in high definition sales, since she's ignoring real world sales figures from the safety of her treehouse.

[reiella]

Originally Posted by fatsnbul

Here is my concern. Back in the late 80s and early 90s I was buying laserdiscs left and right. My local stores had many to choose from. Slowly, I noticed fewer stores carrying them. When I could only go to one store to buy them or call Ken Crane, I knew the format was in trouble.

Well now it seems the Blu-ray retail space is shrinking. Most people only buy products they can see in person. Remember, we are sold on the product and not typical. The casual buyer is losing interest in Blu-ray. I believe Blu-ray is becoming a niche market like laserdisc did.

I have seen full pallets of Blu-ray players for around $100 sitting untouched.

When dvds were introduced, the quality was noticeably better plus the advantages over vhs tapes were many. Dvd stocks have always grown and are maintained at retail stores.

To most people the quality of Blu-ray is not enough to pay more to not only replace their collections but start a new collection as well.

I love Blu-ray so I hope it prospers but I am having laserdisc flashbacks and seeing similar tends.

Personal experience here is that the retail space has been expanding. Just recently took another row away from DVD at my local Best Buy.

[Travis]

My mom and sister don't own a BD player, but they do have a Blu-ray disc. Snow White. Wonder how many people will buy a player after Snow White came to their home.

As people's players die they will hopefully replace them with BD players; the price isn't high anymore and they will play DVDs that have in their homes or that they rent. Hopefully someday all new releases will be Blu and DVD will be a memory like VHS. I'm not worried about BD going the way of SACDs or Beta.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Travis

As people's players die they will hopefully replace them with BD players;

hopefully? One manufacturer already stopped making/selling DVD players. As time passes so will others. Eventually they won't have a choice. You want a new player, BD or nothing.

[Propellarhead9]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

hopefully? One manufacturer already stopped making/selling DVD players. As time passes so will others. Eventually they won't have a choice. You want a new player, BD or nothing.

I think there are a lot of people too that still don't realize that Blu-ray players play DVDs too. So they get the false impression that they won't be able to watch their movies anymore.

[risingstar]

Originally Posted by 2010CAMARO

I keep hearing conflicting reports whether the Blu-ray format will last or if it will just fade away

I recently bought a player and a bunch of discs (I love the format) but it seems thateverywhere I turn people are offering reasons as to why I should not invest in Blu-ray and to save my $ for digital downloads.

The main reasons being (in no particular order)

1/ Digital downloads will replace Blu-ray/dvd within the next few years

2/ It is too expensive for the avgerage person given the worldwide economic climate.

3/ People will not upgrade their dvd collections.

4/ People are scared that they are buying the modern day version of a beta machine and don't want to get burned.

5/ People are happy enough with the current dvds.


So what's the story? Is Blu-ray worth investing in or is it going the way of beta? I'd hate to trade in my current dvd's only to have to buy them again.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. Forgive me if this topic has been talked about before. I'm new here.

1. Not sure about this one. Anyone who's ever downloaded a 4gb movie, knows it can take quite a bit of time. There's also a finesse to it that might intinidate the average user, like say, my mother. I'm not sure the average person will byte.

Your computer will likely be taking a beating if you're going to regularly download 10gb-50gb movies, that is, if you want close to bluray quality... Not only that, service providors will go nuts.

2. Many blurays are already selling for $10. If you keep them cheap, people will buy them.

Also, the companies have to stop with the double and triple dipping. Ultimately, it'll only serve to alienate an already fragile and cynical community. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

3. The average person is still pissed over the VCR being all but dead and buried. To suddenly learn that the DVD may share the same fate will not go down well. Also, let's face it, far more people than not cannot tell or care to tell the difference between a dvd and a bluray. At best, this is a niche sort of thing.

4. Heck. I feel the same way! While I most certainly enjoy watching blurays, I'm definitely being very cautious and conservative with my purchases. I still hear from my friends who backed HD DVDs.

5. Well, I think there are a growing number of us who don't feel that way. However, I doubt we'll ever outnumber the dvd crowd. They love their 3/$10 bins at wal-mart.

jmo

[blacklion]

Originally Posted by Propellarhead9

I think there are a lot of people too that still don't realize that Blu-ray players play DVDs too. So they get the false impression that they won't be able to watch their movies anymore.

Spot on!

There's been an absolute failure on part of the BD association to educate the public. You keep hearing people complain that they just finished replacing their VHS library with DVD and now there's a new format and how they just refuse to replace their DVD library yet again......

If blu-ray is to go beyond a niche format for AV enthusiasts, the BD association URGENTLY needs to spend a few nickels on a massive publicity campaign to educate people that -

1. BD players can also play DVDs and offer superior upscaling in that format

2. They don't HAVE to replace their DVDs if they don't want to; they can keep their existing DVD library and just buy new titles in BD; and also replace or complement a few choice classics in BD

Finally, BD player prices need to come down below $100 and new releases on BD disc should NEVER be more than $15. Otherwise, the collective greed of the studios and the BD player manufacturers will result in BD going the way of SACD and DVD-A.

I own four (4) stand alone BD players and two (2) PS3s. I'm almost half-regretting the investment I've made in this technology. I try to comfort myself that at least I have 4 good upscaling DVD players plus 2 great media centers.

[blacklion]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

hopefully? One manufacturer already stopped making/selling DVD players. As time passes so will others. Eventually they won't have a choice. You want a new player, BD or nothing.

I don't see that happening for another 10-15 years globally. Don't overlook the China factor. Chinese and other Asian CE manufacturers will continue churning out $30 DVD players for the developing world. Inevitably, there'll be gray market imports into the US and Europe due to globalized trade and large immigrant communities. Just think of all those Chinese bootleg DVDs near college campuses. There'll always be people in the US who can't afford or just don't want to move to BD and they'll be the market for these imports.

Remember also that VCD and SVCD are still huge in Asia and all those tens of millions of S/VCD players are a huge replacement market for DVD. For most people in Asia, Africa and Latin America, DVD is a big step up from S/VCD. Not every one wants or needs or can afford HD at this time or price point. For most people in these countries, broadband is a mirage and digital downloads are a pipe dream. So DVD still has a very bright future in these markets. In fact, the Chinese DVD pirates now market super-compressed DVD 9 discs labelled as having been ripped from BD discs. For most people in the developing world, this is more than enough HD

Finally, there's still a healthy used VCR market. Its below the radar of most people but its out there.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by blacklion

I don't see that happening for another 10-15 years globally. Don't overlook the China factor. Chinese and other Asian CE manufacturers will continue churning out $30 DVD players for the developing world. Inevitably, there'll be gray market imports into the US and Europe due to globalized trade and large immigrant communities. Just think of all those Chinese bootleg DVDs near college campuses. There'll always be people in the US who can't afford or just don't want to move to BD and they'll be the market for these imports.

Even if they're still made and still available somewhere, it'll be impossible to find one at Best Buy or Target or Walmart.

Because there would be no financial advantage to offering the option. Cheap BD players will eventually be cheap enough that no one would rather buy a DVD player for the same price.

[blacklion]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Even if they're still made and still available somewhere, it'll be impossible to find one at Best Buy or Target or Walmart.

Because there would be no financial advantage to offering the option. Cheap BD players will eventually be cheap enough that no one would rather buy a DVD player for the same price.

Fair enough. The first DVD players came out in the late 90s and were priced like BD players are now. But I only first noticed the $30 DVD players in early 2008 or so - about ten years later. Unless the studios and CE manufacturers get their act together, we may not see $30 BD players until 2015 or thereabouts. And the Chinese-made DVD players that sell for $30 now will be like $5-7 then and DVDs (legit and bootleg) will be like 50c

Also, the need for massive public education that BD players also play/upscale DVDs still subsists. That information needs to get out there.

[blacklion]

The fanboyism on this thread is simply astounding. Reads like teenage fanboys going at each other over Xbox vs PS3. I don't get the cheap personal insults to the author. Childish and plain immature.

I can appreciate that people who've invested top dollar in a technology can get very sensitive to any criticism or suggestion that their preferred technology is not the ultimate or may fade away. But we can make our counter-arguments without the petty personal insults.

C'mon people, get a grip. BD is great. I personally have invested close on $7k in HDTVs, surround sound, standalone players, PS3s and discs. I know people who've spent far, far more - way beyond what I'd ever spend on home entertainment.

But I spent that much money on AV gear in the middle of a recession out of my own free will and because I could afford to. Even while knowing that it may not be many years before digital downloads rule.

Is that the end of the world for me if a new technology springs up next year that renders all that investment gone? No. That's fine with me. I'll enjoy the PQ and AQ of BD for as long as its the best technology out there until something else comes along, maybe downloads. Provided I can afford it.

I once owned 3 VCRs; I sold or gave them away when DVD came along. I've prolly owned like 9 or 10 DVD players in the last 8 years. Again, I've sold or given away most of them, keeping only my OPPO and Pioneer multi-region DVD players so that I can watch movies from around the world. Also, to play the few SA-CDs and DVD-As that I own.

I'm not going to get so emotionally invested in any particular technology that I'll stoop to trading personal insults with anonymous people on the internet.

DVD and BD will coexist for many years to come. Most people on this forum are AV-philes and early adopters and know where and how to get the best value for their money. But the regular Joe and Jane Blow out there buys their home entertainment from Wal-mart and Best Buy, not amazon or crutchfield.
Heck, I have so many older relatives who still have VCRs and cine projectors in their homes. Its their choice.

I buy mostly action BDs for the picture and sound and buy DVDs for drama and other genres. That's what I can afford and that's what makes sense to me.

I bought the Bourne, Oceans and Mission Impossible trilogies in BD. For Xmas, I'll get the Matrix and Transporter trilogies in BD. I bought Planet Earth in BD and BBC's Blue Planet in DVD. I do regret though that I should have bought 'The Assassination of Jesse James' and 'The Dark Knight' in BD. Maybe someday, I'll get around to them.

Its all good, people. Lets stop the hating. BD and DVD will be with us for many, many years. It will be a few years more before downloads become mainstream - at least another 5-6 years. Even if BD never becomes anything more than a niche format for audiophiles, I will have no regrets for the money I spent. I can still play DVDs on the equipment and when downloads take hold, I'll sell my BD players and move on to the new tech. I don't have an emotional stake in BD.

[blacklion]

The "Analog Sunset" will be staggered. New players after December 31, 2010 must limit analog video output of BD content to interlaced standard definition (480i/576i). Then, 2013 is the expiration date for analog video: no player that passes "Decrypted AACS Content" to analog video outputs may be manufactured or sold after December 31, 2013.

https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=2849

Pure genius, guys! Now sit back and watch China grow rich manufacturing BD players and AV receivers designed to defeat the analogue sunset.

When will Hollywood grow up and finally get it? DRM sucks and will never work. All it does is motivate bored college kids to find a backdoor and enrich the Chinese pirates and CE manufacturers who'll exploit the backdoor to get richer and more powerful.

Stop treating BD enthusiasts like criminals and making us keep spending money for nothing - http://hometheaterreview.com/hdmi-14...heater-market/

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by blacklion

Fair enough. The first DVD players came out in the late 90s and were priced like BD players are now. But I only first noticed the $30 DVD players in early 2008 or so - about ten years later. Unless the studios and CE manufacturers get their act together, we may not see $30 BD players until 2015 or thereabouts. And the Chinese-made DVD players that sell for $30 now will be like $5-7 then and DVDs (legit and bootleg) will be like 50c

The profit margins on an electronic device that cheap would not make it worth selling in retail outlets. You won't see DVD players for 5 dollars if BD players are going for 30 dollars. They might be produced for other markets, but they won't be widely available at places where typical Americans buy electronics (i.e., department or electronics stores).

Also, the need for massive public education that BD players also play/upscale DVDs still subsists. That information needs to get out there.

I'd say they're doing as good a job as is possible. It's people's impenetrable stupidity if they STILL believe a BD player cannot play DVDs. No matter what they say or do, some people will just be stupid.

[gates70]

In response to the original post...Any format will only succeed if the client base buys into it. So if Hollywood or any company decides they are moving to streaming or anything else and the customer doesn't buy it, then it won't "live". It's that simple.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by gates70

In response to the original post...Any format will only succeed if the client base buys into it. So if Hollywood or any company decides they are moving to streaming or anything else and the customer doesn't buy it, then it won't "live". It's that simple.

A good marketing campaign designed to make the consumer think they need something can easily get them to buy into it and make up for a substandard product....however this doesn't apply to blu-ray's, as we all know it is an excellent product!