Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[Elvispookie]

Originally Posted by benricci

That's an awfully long rant just to tell us you don't think downloads are gonna be the standard anytime soon.

3 paragraphs is hardly an awfully long rant. Its your A.D.D. that is the problem. Try and focus and realize you cant just say "I dont think streaming video is going to make it anytime soon".. people would like to know why.. otherwise why start a post.

[benricci]

Originally Posted by Elvispookie

3 paragraphs is hardly an awfully long rant.

You're on the internet. No one wants to read your multi-paragraph diatribe. Wrap it up and make your point.

Originally Posted by Elvispookie

Its your A.D.D. that is the problem.

OK...

Originally Posted by Elvispookie

Try and focus and realize you cant just say "I dont think streaming video is going to make it anytime soon".

Sure you can. You just did. See how easy that was?

Originally Posted by Elvispookie

people would like to know why.. otherwise why start a post.

My thoughts exactly....

[Elvispookie]

one a-hole on every forum i guess. Thanks Ben you fit the bill.

[Uniquely]

I thought digital downloads were going to be quite a while away too.... until I recently tried the beta for Zune HD streaming and downloads. It is the first streaming service to offer 1080P video and Dolby Digital 5.1 audio. It is VERY nice. Compression artifacts are very minimal and really only noticable in high motion scenes. In low motion scenes..... you can actually forget you are not watching a blu. I was truly impressed with the quality. I've tried every digital system out there. I've enjoyed Netflix HD and Amazon On Demand HD, but always thought they were both nice for a streaming service. With the Zune HD.... there is no need to add such a caveat... it is just plain nice. It is the closest I have seen to blu yet. The picture quality is better than the HD satellite channels I get. It remains to be seen if the quality will remain as high once it leaves beta and has more users, but I have been duly impressed so far. And this is over my measly 6Mb DSL connection.

[ZoetMB]

I don't understand the point of your post. If high quality digital downloads are coming soon (and I believe they are), then you're wrong. If they're not, then you're right, but so what? Then nothing changes.

You seem to be uncomfortable with a potential change from Blu-ray physical media to digital downloads. So you're no different than people who embraced technology of the past and didn't think/want that would go away either, whether it was vinyl LPs, black and white television, MS-DOS, film cameras, standard definition TV, etc. I don't understand what fictional fantasy films about space travel has to do with the current evolution of technology.

One technology does not automatically replace another. It happens over time. Digital downloads won't immediately replace physical media, but eventually it certainly has the potential of doing so, just as the record industry is facing declines of 20% per year in the sales of physical media.

Also, the adoption rate of something like HD digital downloads is not based so much on whether people want to do this, but rather whether the technology is there for them to do it. It's currently not there in the United States, however better and better compression algorithms are being developed all the time. A few years back, I was saying that video downloads or streaming at almost any decent resolution were not going to be possible, even on high-speed connections and I was completely wrong. There are certainly artifacts, but you can watch almost any network or cable show on the web today with pretty good picture and sound.

Disney, among others, is looking to set up streaming and distribution systems for their content. They see this as far more efficient than distributing physical media. I don't agree that there's cost savings, because the cost of the server farms and bandwidth would be higher than the manufacturing and distribution cost of physical media, but it does make the content more available for instant buying decisions, especially as physical retail (and especially independent physical retail) is quickly disappearing in the United States.

And as for your statement that 40% of all TV owners were using rabbit ears at the time of the digital TV introduction, that's patently false. Cable & satellite penetration in the United States approaches 80%. As of mid-2008, cable TV penetration was 61% and satellite TV penetration was 28% of all households. (Why do you think practically everyone in the U.S. is overweight or obese? It's because in addition to eating crap, when they're not in their cars, they're sitting around watching junk on TV.)

The #1 market for alternative distribution systems (mostly DBS) is Albuquerque-Santa Fe, New Mexico.

[azereus]

Originally Posted by Elvispookie

3 paragraphs is hardly an awfully long rant. Its your A.D.D. that is the problem. Try and focus and realize you cant just say "I dont think streaming video is going to make it anytime soon".. people would like to know why.. otherwise why start a post.

You seem like a real ray of sunshine. Thanks for joining.

[Beast]

Digital downloads will never replace hard media.

Humanity is too obsessed with getting a physical product for their money.

Add in the other problems with downloads, and there's no way it'll catch on.

[madmojo]

Wouldn't making all media computer or drive based make a lot of people lose their jobs as well? Best Buy would have to go to selling only appliances and no more FYE. (I'm sure some think they are overpriced, but the used stuff is priced well. Especially music.)

Plus I'm sure those that work in the DVD, CD, and Blu-ray factories wouldn't be so thrilled either.

[brettallica]

I agree that it will be a loooong time before streaming from an off-site server — i.e. over the internet — will replace physical media. There are way too many infrastructure issues currently that the majority can't even think about getting the HD content, let alone actually buying the right equipment and figuring out how to make it all work. Just think about how many places in the US still don't have reliable DSL.

[blindcat87]

The reason folks get a little surly about posts like these is that the topic has been hashed out about a thousand times on this forum. Discussions like this were going on back when the format war was in full swing and they multiplied about tenfold during the period right after the end of the war when large numbers of disgruntled HD DVD fans kept going on about how it didn't matter that Blu-ray won because digital downloads would be taking over next year, then next year, then next year and so on.

All of the reasons why DLs are not feasible for the near future have been stated time and again, and it is a bit like all of the posts popping up regularly from new members who haven't searched the archives before posting asking about when Star Wars is coming, when LOTR is coming, what's with the black bars on some BDs, why does X look so bad, it has all of this grain in the image, why can't all of my BDs look like Crank or some other digitally shot movie, and so on. Personally, this topic does not bother me as much as some of the one's I just mentioned, but I haven't participated in one of the digital download threads in a while, and the only ones that bug me are the ones that are basically pro-DL/anti-Blu trolling threads, but that is just me.

Chris

QUOTE=Elvispookie;2489028]one a-hole on every forum i guess. Thanks Ben you fit the bill.[/QUOTE]

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

You seem to be uncomfortable with a potential change from Blu-ray physical media to digital downloads. So you're no different than people who embraced technology of the past and didn't think/want that would go away either, whether it was vinyl LPs, black and white television, MS-DOS, film cameras, standard definition TV, etc. I don't understand what fictional fantasy films about space travel has to do with the current evolution of technology.

I don't think you understand fans of physical media.

I'm not set in my ways. I was glad to be rid of VHS for DVD, and I was glad to be rid of DVD for BD. And if BD is replaced by another packaged media down the line, I'd be glad for that as well!

It's not about preferring one format and not wanting to change to something new. People like that only just switched to DVD a few years back and will refuse to switch to BD until they're forced. We just prefer physical media, not only because it is the most effective and economical for providing the best quality, but also because we enjoy physically collecting and having these things.

just as the record industry is facing declines of 20% per year in the sales of physical media.

But even as the music industry shifts toward completely digital, they STILL press CDs, they still make vinyl! Some people will always prefer physical media even when digital can match quality (lossless compression).

And the only reason people are so apt to go for downloads with music is that quality loss is less apparent in that medium to them. They like the portability of being able to have hundreds of CDs worth of music with them at all times. Few feel the same way about movies.

[krazeyeyez]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

I don't think you understand fans of physical media.

I'm not set in my ways. I was glad to be rid of VHS for DVD, and I was glad to be rid of DVD for BD. And if BD is replaced by another packaged media down the line, I'd be glad for that as well!

It's not about preferring one format and not wanting to change to something new. People like that only just switched to DVD a few years back and will refuse to switch to BD until they're forced. We just prefer physical media, not only because it is the most effective and economical for providing the best quality, but also because we enjoy physically collecting and having these things.


But even as the music industry shifts toward completely digital, they STILL press CDs, they still make vinyl! Some people will always prefer physical media even when digital can match quality (lossless compression).

And the only reason people are so apt to go for downloads with music is that quality loss is less apparent in that medium to them. They like the portability of being able to have hundreds of CDs worth of music with them at all times. Few feel the same way about movies.

Why would you not be able to collect digital downloads, many people replace blu-cases they don't like for thin cases etc.... what if the download offered you the ability to print your own insert, membership provides you with cases shipped to your house monthly etc... Only instead of a DISC you have a flash stick. I mean with the fast paced development of technology and it's multipurpose, endless options approach why is it so hard to see the ability to collect in this manner, only instead of waiting for the mail, or driving to the store, you download, and good to go, hell you could even burn it to a disc at that point. I mean digital downloads is technically just a different distribution method with plenty of potential options we could see to come

I am a fan of movies, and a collector, i like cases, and inserts and things n my shelves, but i could see middle ground to appeal to this base would not be to hard to reach.

[Blu-ray Fanatic]

Originally Posted by Beast

Digital downloads will never replace hard media.

Humanity is too obsessed with getting a physical product for their money.

Add in the other problems with downloads, and there's no way it'll catch on.

+1 The whole world isn't gonna adopt digital downloads. Most people prefer physical media. What would happen if the entire world would adopt digital downloads? That means more hackers, memory usage, etc. It's not gonna succeed. End of rant.

[krazeyeyez]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Fanatic

+1 The whole world isn't gonna adopt digital downloads. Most people prefer physical media. What would happen if the entire world would adopt digital downloads? That means more hackers, memory usage, etc. It's not gonna succeed. End of rant.

As the younger generations grow up and become the majority of the market with disposable income, those raised on digital downloads legal and otherwise, IPODS as opposed to 10 pound cd folders, do you believe they will not alter the market?

[Blu-ray Fanatic]

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

As the younger generations grow up and become the majority of the market with disposable income, those raised on digital downloads legal and otherwise, IPODS as opposed to 10 pound cd folders, do you believe they will not alter the market?

Only time will tell.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

As the younger generations grow up and become the majority of the market with disposable income, those raised on digital downloads legal and otherwise, IPODS as opposed to 10 pound cd folders, do you believe they will not alter the market?

People always seem to forget that music is not the same as movies.

Downloads are already available for purchase, few partake. Many download music willingly, but yet still stick to physical media (except pirates, but they don't count anyway).

And yes, there can be advantages to digital material. But why must it be digital distribution? Rather than saying "later on we might be able to burn our own discs from digital copies", how about "we should be able to make approved digital rips of Blu-rays".

I honestly don't know how that's not part of the BD spec. Licensed rips off of Blu-rays would probably completely destroy the idea of iTunes selling movies and relegate digital distribution to rental where it belongs.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

People always seem to forget that music is not the same as movies.

Downloads are already available for purchase, few partake. Many download music willingly, but yet still stick to physical media (except pirates, but they don't count anyway).

And yes, there can be advantages to digital material. But why must it be digital distribution? Rather than saying "later on we might be able to burn our own discs from digital copies", how about "we should be able to make approved digital rips of Blu-rays".

I honestly don't know how that's not part of the BD spec. Licensed rips off of Blu-rays would probably completely destroy the idea of iTunes selling movies and relegate digital distribution to rental where it belongs.

Digital downloads for movies is still in it's infancy. The quality does not yet match that can be found on physical media, although Zune HD has made a giant leap towards that with crisp 1080P video and 5.1 Dolby Digital. When digital media is able to meet BD quality, there will be many people, including myself, who will readily jump to it.

As I said previously, I would much prefer my catalog neatly tucked away and out of sight on a media server in my network closet, or even stored on an internet server somewhere. I'd much prefer to see my titles, complete with cover pics and easily readable descriptions up on my big screen. I'd love to be able to instantly sort my titles by any combination of filters I choose. I'd love to be able to just hit play and have my title instantly start, without having to mess with discs. Many people feel this way which is why network media servers are becoming more and more common. It's not all about piracy. Many people are more than happy to pay for their titles, they just want to be able to use them in the manner that is most pleasing for them.

In this modern age of high tech electronics, having to to physically organize my titles in a single static way, and read through all of the tiny little spines, pulling each case out to read the descriptons, etc just feels like the 1985 VHS way of doing things.

I mean really on movie night, would you rather have your guests squeezed in around your movie shelves straining to see the titles, or would you prefer that they be able to remain seated in your nice comfy home theater seating and easily peruse your titles on the big screen with cover pics and movie descriptions easily readable?

I've said it before, and almost always get a negative reaction for saying it, but if blu-ray really wanted to get ahead of the curve and significantly extend their lifespan beyond the time that digital downloads can match it's quality, then they would at this time allows us to make full quality digital copies to our home networks. All it would take is a simple firmware update to network capable players. This would satisfy both those who prefer to use physical media and those who long for a digital catalog. It wouldn't change a thing for people who prefer physical media, but it would allow them to hang on to people like myself who simply want an easy digital way to access their media.

[steve_dave]

DirecTV and Dish both offer on-demand downloads of movies in 1080/24f with DD 5.1 audio.

Microsoft will also offer 1080/24f movie downloads via the Zune marketplace on XBox 360 again with DD 5.1 audio.

So yeah, we are at Gen1 of Blu-ray quality downloads but lossless audio is still not available. I'm sure someone will offer PCM 2.0 stereo with the 1080/24f video but that would be an incredibly large download for most user's bandwidth. Its far easier and less of a bandwidth hog to offer 1080/24f video using an efficient video codec and 384kbs or lower DD audio.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

Why would you not be able to collect digital downloads, many people replace blu-cases they don't like for thin cases etc.... what if the download offered you the ability to print your own insert, membership provides you with cases shipped to your house monthly etc... Only instead of a DISC you have a flash stick. I mean with the fast paced development of technology and it's multipurpose, endless options approach why is it so hard to see the ability to collect in this manner, only instead of waiting for the mail, or driving to the store, you download, and good to go, hell you could even burn it to a disc at that point. I mean digital downloads is technically just a different distribution method with plenty of potential options we could see to come

two issues with this

1) does any legal service allow you to DL and make a Hard copy to a disk that will play in a DVD/BD player?

No, they won't even allow you to back up copies of your BD DVDs. why? because there will always be people that abuse it, that guy that wants to make a back up/ hard copy for his 5, 10, 500 or more closest friends.

2) let me ask you two questions
a) how much does a 50GB + flash stick costs (I am not willing to go backwards in what I get)?
b) how much does 8 MB flash costr and where can I get it new?

the questions might look odd, but the reality is 50GB is extremely expensive now and you have not bought a movie yet (so add an other 20$+ for it) now I know, it happens most times this comes up, chances are you are thinking "but it will get cheaper". That is true, but that is why I asked B, there was a time when 8MB was expensive, but before it got cheap enough (when we compare it to something like the cost of disks) it disappeared. as memory grows you get more GB per $ but at some point it is not worth making it any more which is why they don't make 8MB or 16MB or 256MB or 512MB or 1GB any more. The issue is to compete with BD or DVD it needs to be much less then that. Let me put it this way, I can go and buy 100 blank DVDs (just because it is an easy example) and they would be between 20 cents and 30 cents each (and this is way more then what replication would cost), I don't care about amount of memory (we are assuming it will get cheaper perGB with time), what is the cheapest flash unit I can get (be it USB, SD....)? Why would the studio want to pay a hell of a lot more to go flash instead of disk? If the studio does not eat the cost, then why would any buyer prefer to pay a premium for flash instead of disk?

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

DirecTV and Dish both offer on-demand downloads of movies in 1080/24f with DD 5.1 audio.

Microsoft will also offer 1080/24f movie downloads via the Zune marketplace on XBox 360 again with DD 5.1 audio.

So yeah, we are at Gen1 of Blu-ray quality downloads but lossless audio is still not available. I'm sure someone will offer PCM 2.0 stereo with the 1080/24f video but that would be an incredibly large download for most user's bandwidth. Its far easier and less of a bandwidth hog to offer 1080/24f video using an efficient video codec and 384kbs or lower DD audio.

lol