Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[ajvdbg]

Ever thought about which type of HDTV you were looking at? Generally LCD TV's (not all) will definately look more like HD video rather than film particularly in a big-box store. However, get a calibrated, quality plasma and you will be very close to the film-look you are seeking. The Dark Knight will definately look like film on a good plasma...

[BLUCanadian]

Scorsese even compared HD to 35mm, noting that it brings a "film-grain quality" to movies and "allows the film to be seen as closely as possible to how it was intended to be."

http://www.techradar.com/news/video/...-movies-646735

Ill take Scorsese's comments over yours anyday!

[Blove23]

Originally Posted by ls35a

I've spent maybe 45 minutes watching blu-ray movies at various store setups.

Yes, the detail can be impressive.

But blu-ray looks like some hi-def video, not film. It looks .... not that good.

This is where everyone says, 'well, they had the tv tweaked with all the colors turned up'. No, not really.

I find it hard to get excited about this technology. I watched about 30 minutes of 'The Dark Knight' the other day and the experience was not like watching a movie at all. Hi-def video, not film.

I think we're being sold a bill of goods here. Or rather a Japanese professional video format that got tweaked for use in home systems by a company that wanted a proprietary format.

I just want to make sure I understand you. You were not impressed with the technology and the experience was not like watching a movie. This is just my opinion:

Blu-ray is nice to look at, but if you don't have some type of Home Theater System you are defeating the purpose of having a blu-ray player. The key thing to have is a Home Theater System.

There are still nothing like the movie experience to me, but there are people out there that have systems that come close to or have movie quality. Your 30 minute demo of "The Dark Knight" is not a good representation of Blu-ray.

Enjoy how you watch television today, invest in a Home Theater System and then tell me what you think...

Once you make that step into Home Theater Systems its something you do for life....

[master_8ball]

If you have been viewing LCD sets it could be the motion enhancement that you dislike as many other do.

[Rob J in WNY]

ls35a,

Perhaps you were looking at The Dark Knight on a 120Hz LCD TV running frame interpolation/motion smoothing. If so, then you won't get much argument from knowledgeable people here that it generally makes film look more like "video" (the oft-called "soap opera effect"), and NOT like film.

35mm scenes (majority of the movie) in The Dark Knight have also been a touch overprocessed in terms of contrast and color saturation. It is close to, but not really reference-quality picture. The IMAX scenes (70mm) in the movie show a great deal of visual poise, though. It should be mentioned to you that The Dark Knight is a special animal in terms of the Blu-ray norm, with its shifting aspect ratios and 35mm/70mm differences in picture quality.

That said, it must be granted that too much "scrubbing" and other image processing during the transfer of film to create HD masters can result in the loss of original image detail. The Dark Knight, although it has its shortcomings, is far from the worst case scenario out there, though. Seen on a properly adjusted TV, it's highly enjoyable to watch from a cinematic standpoint.

Truth is, just about all flat-panel HDTVs, when calibrated/dialed in properly, will produce a very filmic look. Most TVs displayed in "big box" stores are not going to be set up/defaulted for the finest picture they are capable of producing. Superbright showroom floors (MUCH brighter than your home environment) result in stores simply using factory defaults for "vivid" or "dynamic" preset video settings on most of the TVs they display, and also if the TV does feature a motion interpolation/smoothing feature, it may turned on to the max. This creates video which is muich more eye-popping in the showrooms. It's all in the marketing. Most of us here in these forums have come to realize that the best settings for most of the visual enhancements of modern TVs are best left shut off to produce what is truly the most remarkable and accurate picture.

I have a Sony XBR4, which does have a 120Hz panel and frame interpolation. I have the frame interpolation shut off, and the TV is dialed in pretty well. Although TVs have come along even since I bought it, it does create a nice, true to life picture for a TV which is two years old. Nice enough that although I do plan on upgrading, I'm not in a hurry to do so even yet.

[tilallr1]

To the OP:

Your mistaken. Blu-ray has nothing to do with your assessment.

The observations you made were actually more related to the TV technology and settings.

Blu-ray, by far, looks more like film than anything else out there. With the proper setup, you shouldn't even be able to tell the difference between film and HD Blu-ray's.

[kevinbr100]

sounds like a bait question to me . but if legit i imagine what he's talking about are the high refresh rate lcds, when those settings are on, i would agree the picture no longer looks like film. and most store displays have those on full blast. in my opinion the picture you see from most bluray films is in fact higher quality than what you would see at your local theater. this is because prints become dirty, scratched and otherwise damaged quickly because minimum wage theater workers operate the projectors, the days of a full time projectionist are long gone. also the projectors are poorly maintained, cleaned, and the theaters buy cheap, sometimes lower wattage bulbs, and dirty screens can spoil any picture. with bluray if you are looking for quality of presentation, you can bypass these issues. i still love the theater experience, seeing a film with an audience can really impact how you enjoy the film, and give you a whole different experience. once theaters go all digital it will solve a lot of the presentation issues, but hopefully they can keep that film look,or maybe give us something more than we can get at home like 4k resolution.

[mikem471]

Originally Posted by ls35a

I find it hard to get excited about this technology.

Yet you're a registered member of blu-ray.com??

Interesting.

Seriously though, go back under your bridge.

[progers13]

I think someone's trying to draw a rise out of us

The idiocy of his statement alone should tell us just to let him live in his cave. "I've spent maybe 45 minutes watching blu-ray movies at various store setups." Ok...and...? We've spent hundreds / thousands of hours in our homes on our calibrated systems with optimal lighting, and we've watched more than just the Dark Knight.

In case you're not aware, blu-ray can only look as good as the source material. Some source material is better than others, and some transfers are better than others. But this is not a shortcoming of the technology. In fact it has much more to do with economics and how much care people give to the preservation of the source material and the ensuing transfer.

If you "find it hard to get excited about this technology," then more power to you. But why are you on a blu-ray site in the first place? Moron.

[blue11]

just wanted to throw my $0.02 in here

Yesterday, my wife and I spent an hour looking at TV's at a B&M store here in Canada yesterday (We were looking for a TV as a Christmas present for her parents). One of the sets they are featuring is the new line of LG LCD TV's with TruMotion Oddly enough, they were playing The Dark Knight on it (I'm not sure where you what store you were watching it at). As soon as I saw it, it looked really off to me. she turned to me and asked "what's wrong with this picture?". I told her it could be the TruMotion feature of the TV and asked her, "why do you think the picture is wrong?". she said it looked like a soap opera. So I fumbled around and managed to find the buttons on the side and was able to pull the picture settings menu on screen. by this time, there were a few other customers looking at me, as well as a few sales people looking at me very intently. I turned the TruMotion feature off, and viola, TDK looked great again (at least to me, grain and all). A few customers went, ah, that looks good. And the sales people were quick to point out to the customers gathered around "This feature can be easily turned on and off, it all depends on what you're watching. some will look better with it on, others not so much". I didn't bother to ask why they would show a film like TDK on a set that has a feature like TruMotion on.
I know this has been a bit long winded but I feel you should at least hear (or in this case, read) why films like TDK can look weird at places where they have a lot of light and all of these features turned on. It does not represent what the actual optimum capability of the set or of the technology itself. As pointed out, once a set is properly calibrated, watching a movie on Blu-ray can be (and it is for me every single time I watch one) an amazing experience.

BTW
We ended up looking at a 720P Panasonic Plasma after all of that (Of course I had to turn the vivid mode off first so I can really judge the PQ). I think we'll end up getting this one.

[P@t_Mtl]

Who care's what the OP think really? He can think BD is worthless to his little heart's content. My only question to him is,

why did you bother becoming a member of this website then? What's the point? Or is your entire life base on your enjoyment of trolling on the Internet?

[master_8ball]

Originally Posted by blue11

just wanted to throw my $0.02 in here

Yesterday, my wife and I spent an hour looking at TV's at a B&M store here in Canada yesterday (We were looking for a TV as a Christmas present for her parents). One of the sets they are featuring is the new line of LG LCD TV's with TruMotion Oddly enough, they were playing The Dark Knight on it (I'm not sure where you what store you were watching it at). As soon as I saw it, it looked really off to me. she turned to me and asked "what's wrong with this picture?". I told her it could be the TruMotion feature of the TV and asked her, "why do you think the picture is wrong?". she said it looked like a soap opera. So I fumbled around and managed to find the buttons on the side and was able to pull the picture settings menu on screen. by this time, there were a few other customers looking at me, as well as a few sales people looking at me very intently. I turned the TruMotion feature off, and viola, TDK looked great again (at least to me, grain and all). A few customers went, ah, that looks good. And the sales people were quick to point out to the customers gathered around "This feature can be easily turned on and off, it all depends on what you're watching. some will look better with it on, others not so much". I didn't bother to ask why they would show a film like TDK on a set that has a feature like TruMotion on.
I know this has been a bit long winded but I feel you should at least hear (or in this case, read) why films like TDK can look weird at places where they have a lot of light and all of these features turned on. It does not represent what the actual optimum capability of the set or of the technology itself. As pointed out, once a set is properly calibrated, watching a movie on Blu-ray can be (and it is for me every single time I watch one) an amazing experience.

BTW
We ended up looking at a 720P Panasonic Plasma after all of that (Of course I had to turn the vivid mode off first so I can really judge the PQ). I think we'll end up getting this one.

Hey fellow Canuck, Zellers has the Sony 40" 1080p S series LCD for 769 right now.

We should all start something new, every time your in a store, turn of the motion enhancement on the tvs.

[blue11]

Originally Posted by master_8ball

Hey fellow Canuck, Zellers has the Sony 40" 1080p S series LCD for 769 right now.

We should all start something new, every time your in a store, turn of the motion enhancement on the tvs.

thanks for the heads up. I think for their TV room, a plasma would work better. There are some seats off center to where the TV would go and I think a plasma would be good. We were trying to decide between the LG 42PQ12 and Panasonic TCP42C1. The Panasonic is $100 more but hopefully we can find a good deal on one before Christmas.

I thought about changing as many sets as I could and then leaving them as they were, but seeing as the sales people were watching, I put the settings back to Vivid and TruMotion on. Maybe the next time I get a chance I'll change another one between 2 who are in Vivid/torch mode and wait if people will have any comments.

[ls35a]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Who care's what the OP think really? He can think BD is worthless to his little heart's content. My only question to him is,

why did you bother becoming a member of this website then? What's the point? Or is your entire life base on your enjoyment of trolling on the Internet?

I can be interested in hi-def video, and have a good home theater, but not have taken the blu-ray leap yet. And have serious reservations about doing so. The phrase 'hi-def video, not film' actually comes from a friend of mine who works for a stereo/video store in Minneapolis.

All the comments in this thread about 120hz and lcd tv's show me other people know what I'm talking about.

Maybe if I had a blu-ray player at home I'd become a convert. But something has to look good first before you buy it. And I'm iffy on that.

[ls35a]

Originally Posted by progers13

I think someone's trying to draw a rise out of us

The idiocy of his statement alone should tell us just to let him live in his cave. "I've spent maybe 45 minutes watching blu-ray movies at various store setups." Ok...and...? We've spent hundreds / thousands of hours in our homes on our calibrated systems with optimal lighting, and we've watched more than just the Dark Knight.

In case you're not aware, blu-ray can only look as good as the source material. Some source material is better than others, and some transfers are better than others. But this is not a shortcoming of the technology. In fact it has much more to do with economics and how much care people give to the preservation of the source material and the ensuing transfer.

If you "find it hard to get excited about this technology," then more power to you. But why are you on a blu-ray site in the first place? Moron.

Name-calling. That's a great way to bring someone over to your point of view. Very mature. And having spent 'thousands of hours' watching blu-ray is something you want to brag about? Talk about needing to get out more.....

[ls35a]

Originally Posted by blue11

just wanted to throw my $0.02 in here

Yesterday, my wife and I spent an hour looking at TV's at a B&M store here in Canada yesterday (We were looking for a TV as a Christmas present for her parents). One of the sets they are featuring is the new line of LG LCD TV's with TruMotion Oddly enough, they were playing The Dark Knight on it (I'm not sure where you what store you were watching it at). As soon as I saw it, it looked really off to me. she turned to me and asked "what's wrong with this picture?". I told her it could be the TruMotion feature of the TV and asked her, "why do you think the picture is wrong?". she said it looked like a soap opera. So I fumbled around and managed to find the buttons on the side and was able to pull the picture settings menu on screen. by this time, there were a few other customers looking at me, as well as a few sales people looking at me very intently. I turned the TruMotion feature off, and viola, TDK looked great again (at least to me, grain and all). A few customers went, ah, that looks good. And the sales people were quick to point out to the customers gathered around "This feature can be easily turned on and off, it all depends on what you're watching. some will look better with it on, others not so much". I didn't bother to ask why they would show a film like TDK on a set that has a feature like TruMotion on.
I know this has been a bit long winded but I feel you should at least hear (or in this case, read) why films like TDK can look weird at places where they have a lot of light and all of these features turned on. It does not represent what the actual optimum capability of the set or of the technology itself. As pointed out, once a set is properly calibrated, watching a movie on Blu-ray can be (and it is for me every single time I watch one) an amazing experience.

BTW
We ended up looking at a 720P Panasonic Plasma after all of that (Of course I had to turn the vivid mode off first so I can really judge the PQ). I think we'll end up getting this one.

That's a very interesting post, thanks for sharing your experience. Yeah, I think it's a shame that LCD's have pretty much taken over the tv market. I had a 46" Sony for a couple of days - it had 'clouding' and Sony said they couldn't fix it, so back it went.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by ls35a

Maybe if I had a blu-ray player at home I'd become a convert. But something has to look good first before you buy it. And I'm iffy on that.

if you had a blu-ray player at home, you'd already be a convert, no?

your "looking good first" logic of watching TDK in a store doesn't fairly assess the format (especially as to whether it resembes "film"). that is, its a false test, as it doesnt represent a sample of the criteria you're assessing. it would be akin to judging a restaurants deserts by the taste of its steak (i.e. "this steak isn't sweet enough, so this restaurants deserts suck").

[Blu Smurf]

Remember, don't feed the trolls.

[Travis]

45 minutes!

I have spent a little more time watching Blu-rays say 200+ hours. They look great. My TV is not in a store and has been calibrated and settings that ruin the film-like experience have been turned off. I really don't know wha.... AH! Get Back! Can't believe it tried to bite me. Blu Smurf is right, Don't Feed the Trolls.

[kurtlingle]

Originally Posted by ls35a

I've spent maybe 45 minutes watching blu-ray movies at various store setups.

The posters who mentioned the 120Hz LCD's are right on for what you saw.

My mother in law has the Sony 4100 W series 52 inch LCD. The 120Hz makes regular HD look nice as it's adding one extra frame (60i to 120) so it's much smoother of transition.

But most Blu-ray discs are film, ie 24p (24 frames per sec). So to hit the 120 it's adding 4 extra frames and it' can look fake or choppy.

So for cable/FIOS you can set the motion flow (each manufacturer has a different name) turned on but for Blu-ray it should be off. Since they are on different inputs - you only have to setup up right once.

That said - some people like the motion flow stuff - and on the Sony TV you can set it on 3 separate settings (OFF, Medium, High - something like that).

Anyway - many blu-ray movies look just like film - and some have been scrubbed to look more like HD. But that's a whole different topic!