Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by kdo

Again, this is mainly because everyone already owns all the DVD's they could possibly want. Of course Blu-ray is going to cut in on marketshare of the new-releases, but even then, DVD is still outselling blu

40% of new release movie sales is a big percentage, and 1 has to wonder if piracy was completely eliminated overnight, what would the new release blu-ray sales percentage be compared to new release dvd's then. I think new release blu-ray sales would have already fully overtaken dvd new release sales if piracy didn't exist.

[krazeyeyez]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

40% of new release movie sales is a big percentage, and 1 has to wonder if piracy was completely eliminated overnight, what would the new release blu-ray sales percentage be compared to new release dvd's then. I think new release blu-ray sales would have already fully overtaken dvd new release sales if piracy didn't exist.

based on what i have seen at friends houses piracy at least in regards to new releases is a made up issue by the studios... the crap these kids watch lol, trust me they would not shell out the $ for blu-ray because quality of picture and sound is absolutely of no concern to them.

Actually it seems that most the people i know that watch bootlegs also subscribe to netflix streaming (via 360) go figure. Thats as close as they get to paying for anything and on a 2-4gig bandwidth the quality on that is pretty unbearable (to me) as well. I do think blu-ray will be around for sometime, but i gotta agree that the collectors nature with film i have is not there in most of my generation and definitely not there in the younger ones. Speed is the first, second and third most important feature with convenience being the fourth feeding the ADD and sheer laziness. Quality comes in a distant 10th as in not important.

The real thing thats going to hurt blu-ray from my perspective is that on most tvs in mass penetration the difference is minimal and far from spectacular. It just doesn't jump out at yah on many films, its only after you adopt and become accustomed to blu-ray you notice the real difference when you attempt to watch a dvd and realize just how good we have it now.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

based on what i have seen at friends houses piracy at least in regards to new releases is a made up issue by the studios... the crap these kids watch lol, trust me they would not shell out the $ for blu-ray because quality of picture and sound is absolutely of no concern to them.

Actually it seems that most the people i know that watch bootlegs also subscribe to netflix streaming (via 360) go figure. Thats as close as they get to paying for anything and on a 2-4gig bandwidth the quality on that is pretty unbearable (to me) as well. I do think blu-ray will be around for sometime, but i gotta agree that the collectors nature with film i have is not there in most of my generation and definitely not there in the younger ones. Speed is the first, second and third most important feature with convenience being the fourth feeding the ADD and sheer laziness. Quality comes in a distant 10th as in not important.

The real thing thats going to hurt blu-ray from my perspective is that on most tvs in mass penetration the difference is minimal and far from spectacular. It just doesn't jump out at yah on many films, its only after you adopt and become accustomed to blu-ray you notice the real difference when you attempt to watch a dvd and realize just how good we have it now.

Your friends are only a very small percentage of the worlds population. Plenty of people I know deal in pirated films for both new and older releases, my fiancees entire family for a start (except for her), who refuse to pay for movies and only ever own pirated films. I never let them or anyone else for that matter borrow my movies, because I know that they are just going to copy them. Quite frankly I can't stand their attitude, and it really annoys me when I buy thousands of dollars worth of movies and these people just think its there right to get them for free. To be honest though, I know far more women who pirate than men and who don't see any problem with it, they think they are doing nothing wrong. All of the women I work with share this mentally.

[Rob71]

Originally Posted by kdo

For those who continue to believe that the future of Blu-ray is bright and full of promise, I need only say this...A little over 5 years into the format, DVD had nearly 23,000 titles available. Blu-ray is only about 4 months away from its 5 year mark, and how many titles have been released? About 3,700...one only needs to do the math to figure it out.

Don't disagree with what you are saying. Just that given the quality of those early "shovelware" DVD titles compared to the quality of [I]most[I] early BD titles, I much prefer quality over quantity. Not that there hasn't been stinkers, but nowhere near the numbers that DVD had. Highlander's 2000 release comes to mind. I cried the first time I watched it on DVD.

Considering just about everyone on the planet already owns all of the movies they could possibly want on DVD, yes, it is impressive how well DVD still continues to sell.

This is what I think gets lost in all the back and forth. People already have their favorites on DVD. Most even have all the cult, unintentionally funny, and outright bad movies they laugh at with friends on DVD as well. Other than new release, what's left to buy? I'm surprised the decline is as slow as it is actually. What's left to bring out are the non mainstream titles that won't sell in any appreciable numbers. Which is why I kind of like what Warner Bros. is doing. I finally got Doc Savage on DVD(cost me $20+). And I at some point that it gets a BD release. As well as Karate Kid III.

Again, this is mainly because everyone already owns all the DVD's they could possibly want. Of course Blu-ray is going to cut in on marketshare of the new-releases, but even then, DVD is still outselling Blu.

Not for Inception.

I've never really seen it anywhere, but at what point percentage-wise is more profit earned with a BD release? I mean just in 2010 we've seen big name titles go from getting around 25-30% on BD early in the year to 35-40% later on. Also wasn't their a title just released on BD only, except for a Wal-Mart DVD exclusive? I think we'll start to see more moves like this in the not too distant future. Maybe catalog titles released as BD combo's only? I hear the studio's really like those. I think the studio number crunchers have a threshold number, and once it's hit there will be a push away from DVD just like with VHS. And seeing as how all those DVD's will still work perfectly, there won't be much of a backlash, especially when the cost of BD players are getting south of $100.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by trekdude

Blu-ray will survive for several years, but it will continue to have a small share of the overall market.

If a movie like inception sold almost twice as many BDs as DVDs and most movies sell nearly as many how does BD have a small share of the market?

Streaming, downloading or buying a movie that's stored on a company's server for your use anywhere with any device - will all split the market with blu-ray.

maybe, but Beta and LD and DVD split the market with VHS at times and VHS, BD and HD-DVD, PPV and UMD all split the market with DVD at times. There has never been a time when there was only one format (physical or not)

For example Harry Potter and the Goblet of fire came out on Blu-ray, DVD, HD-DVD, UMD and VHS
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?rh=n...95b4c432168059

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Malik True

Dave we are the minority, the majority does not care about none of what's in bold type.

then why did the vast majority of people (roughly 2:1) who bought Inception buy it on Blu-ray?

Furthermore neither you or I know what's going to be developed in the next five years to render your point about be able to sustain copious amounts of data, potentially moot. Hence the reason why I asked you take a trip down tech memory lane...

you might not know, but many of us do. The issue is the tech development is practically immaterial, Let's say in 5, 4, 3, 2 years or even next year someone develops the tech. The telcos would still need many years and many many billions of dollars in order to implement that tech all over the place.

Around 10 years ago I had a co-worker in Japan, he had a 100mbps link (it was expensive but work paid for it because he needed it), does the whole world have access to 100mbps links? no.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by kdo

Actually, no it's not. I know more people who stream movies now, than buy them on DVD and/or Blu-ray.

so out of the over 7 billion people in the world how many do you know?
and how old are they?

For those who continue to believe that the future of Blu-ray is bright and full of promise, I need only say this...A little over 5 years into the format, DVD had nearly 23,000 titles available. Blu-ray is only about 4 months away from its 5 year mark, and how many titles have been released? About 3,700...one only needs to do the math to figure it out.

and if that person uses their brain they would see their math is wrong. Dumping is not a good sign, at best it is irrelevent. Theatres pumped out stuff on DVD extremely fast, that is why the market also started shrinking in 2004 and the pricing of movies crumbled. The issue is you fail to realise that DVD was the first format to sell movie to the mass market and studios did not know what they where doing. By the time BD came out they grew and they are not willing to make the same mistakes.

Again, this is mainly because everyone already owns all the DVD's they could possibly want.

I did not know they stopped making movies.

Of course Blu-ray is going to cut in on marketshare of the new-releases, but even then, DVD is still outselling Blu.

barely on some yes, but not all of them and BD is growing.

Unfortunately though, this is not a universal truth. It all depends on the quality of work we get from the studios. If we get a top-notch restoration this can be the case, but seriously, how many titles on Blu-ray have really been given 'red-carpet' treatment?

I have yet to see any that has not been an improvemnet over the DVD.

[jwoodwar]

Maybe. Needs more oldere movies to catch alot of older people attention. But younger people can get right into it!

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

based on what i have seen at friends houses piracy at least in regards to new releases is a made up issue by the studios...

I don't agree, that you talk about friends, shows it is a very real issue. We all know many people that pirate.

the crap these kids watch lol, trust me they would not shell out the $ for blu-ray because quality of picture and sound is absolutely of no concern to them.

On the issue of crap, we are all different when something is free or not. Just because they accerpt something that is free, does not mean they would accept it if they had to pay

[Terjyn]

Originally Posted by kdo

For those who continue to believe that the future of Blu-ray is bright and full of promise, I need only say this...A little over 5 years into the format, DVD had nearly 23,000 titles available. Blu-ray is only about 4 months away from its 5 year mark, and how many titles have been released? About 3,700...one only needs to do the math to figure it out.

The 23,000 titles was at the (near) year 6 point of DVD. As a general rule people always decide that 6-10 months of DVD "didn't count" for some reason, while by god every single minute of Blu-Ray's release counts, and the press release where the 23000 titles came from pulled the same trick.

Blu-Ray won't catch up by year 6, but I'm disgusted that press release got the same stupid crap wrong every anti-Blu-Ray article has since day 1 of the format.

[kdo]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

40% of new release movie sales is a big percentage, and 1 has to wonder if piracy was completely eliminated overnight, what would the new release blu-ray sales percentage be compared to new release dvd's then. I think new release blu-ray sales would have already fully overtaken dvd new release sales if piracy didn't exist.

40% of new releases is a strong number, but that's not always the case (that's usually the depth of market share garnered by the bigger and more popular films). I agree that piracy (at least on new releases) is certainly an issue to an extent, although I don't know any statistics as to how how much.

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

based on what i have seen at friends houses piracy at least in regards to new releases is a made up issue by the studios... the crap these kids watch lol, trust me they would not shell out the $ for blu-ray because quality of picture and sound is absolutely of no concern to them.

the collectors nature with film i have is not there in most of my generation and definitely not there in the younger ones. Speed is the first, second and third most important feature with convenience being the fourth feeding the ADD and sheer laziness. Quality comes in a distant 10th as in not important.

The real thing thats going to hurt blu-ray from my perspective is that on most tvs in mass penetration the difference is minimal and far from spectacular. It just doesn't jump out at yah on many films, its only after you adopt and become accustomed to blu-ray you notice the real difference when you attempt to watch a dvd and realize just how good we have it now.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Cevolution

Plenty of people I know deal in pirated films for both new and older releases, my fiancees entire family for a start (except for her), who refuse to pay for movies and only ever own pirated films. I never let them or anyone else for that matter borrow my movies, because I know that they are just going to copy them. Quite frankly I can't stand their attitude, and it really annoys me when I buy thousands of dollars worth of movies and these people just think its there right to get them for free. To be honest though, I know far more women who pirate than men and who don't see any problem with it, they think they are doing nothing wrong. All of the women I work with share this mentally.

I concur, and I see similar types of behavior myself. I've always paid for my movies too. As for your comment on the women pirating......I didn't think women can do any wrong (at least in their minds)...which is one of the major reasons I'm still single and happy

Originally Posted by Rob71

Don't disagree with what you are saying. Just that given the quality of those early "shovelware" DVD titles compared to the quality of [I]most[I] early BD titles, I much prefer quality over quantity. Not that there hasn't been stinkers, but nowhere near the numbers that DVD had. Highlander's 2000 release comes to mind. I cried the first time I watched it on DVD.

I completely agree, especially in regards to quality over quantity. And I'm more than willing to be patient and wait for a good product, rather than get something that's just been "dumped" out there. But sadly most people aren't willing to be patient (it's that whole "instant gratification" thing we see so often nowadays)...they want it all, and they want it now...and if they can download every movie they've ever wanted or go to the local library and check them all out (and then copy them that way), that's what they'll do. Unfortunately, it's not about premium quality, it's about getting the best quality you can in the quickest, cheapest, and easiest possible manner.

This is what I think gets lost in all the back and forth. People already have their favorites on DVD. Most even have all the cult, unintentionally funny, and outright bad movies they laugh at with friends on DVD as well. Other than new release, what's left to buy? I'm surprised the decline is as slow as it is actually. What's left to bring out are the non mainstream titles that won't sell in any appreciable numbers. Which is why I kind of like what Warner Bros. is doing. I finally got Doc Savage on DVD(cost me $20+). And I at some point that it gets a BD release. As well as Karate Kid III.

Again, in complete agreement with your statement here...I love that Warner started that Archive Collection...

Not for Inception.

True...my bad. But after all, this is only one title.

I've never really seen it anywhere, but at what point percentage-wise is more profit earned with a BD release? I mean just in 2010 we've seen big name titles go from getting around 25-30% on BD early in the year to 35-40% later on. Also wasn't their a title just released on BD only, except for a Wal-Mart DVD exclusive? I think we'll start to see more moves like this in the not too distant future. Maybe catalog titles released as BD combo's only? I hear the studio's really like those. I think the studio number crunchers have a threshold number, and once it's hit there will be a push away from DVD just like with VHS. And seeing as how all those DVD's will still work perfectly, there won't be much of a backlash, especially when the cost of BD players are getting south of $100.

I don't know the numbers on any of these factors either, but like you, I do hope that much of what you're saying does end up happening more regularly, though I just don't know that it will.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

then why did the vast majority of people (roughly 2:1) who bought Inception buy it on Blu-ray?

Good question, but again, this is only one title we're talking about.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

so out of the over 7 billion people in the world how many do you know?
and how old are they?

What purpose does this question serve? As if the fact that I don't know all the people in the world is going to change things?

Originally Posted by Anthony P

and if that person uses their brain they would see their math is wrong. Dumping is not a good sign, at best it is irrelevent. Theatres pumped out stuff on DVD extremely fast, that is why the market also started shrinking in 2004 and the pricing of movies crumbled. The issue is you fail to realise that DVD was the first format to sell movie to the mass market and studios did not know what they where doing. By the time BD came out they grew and they are not willing to make the same mistakes.

Every human being has a brain, and if you look at the world in which we live, I'd say it's quite obvious that most of us (if not all) don't use it effectively, or at least to its full potential (I'm no exception). All this talk about how the studios screwed up before is irrelevant, what's done is done. They flooded the market and now the majority of the world's population (at least those that are somewhat interested in films) already own all the movies they want on a format that is acceptable to them (DVD that is).

Problem now, is that the studios are trying to figure out how they're going to keep most people rebuying their products, and make a profit at it. In a lot of ways, the studios sold themselves out with DVD, and now a good chunk of the world (myself included), really has no further use for them. Other than a few catalogue titles I'm waiting on (which for the most part I could really care less if and when they make it to Blu), I've no further use for the film industry. I'm not interested in 3-D, I refuse to pay the ridiculous price to see all the new garbage that comes out at the theaters (which is why I've been to the movies about only 10 times in the past 10 years), and I don't plan on ever replacing the movies I currently have on DVD and/or Blu-ray. I think a lot of what might be going on right now, is the studios trying to figure out how they're going to keep afloat in the future, when physical media isn't going to be selling, and people will do with movies, what they've done with music (just get it all for free, or dirt cheap...)

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I did not know they stopped making movies.

They haven't. But most of the new stuff is junk.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

barely on some yes, but not all of them and BD is growing.

Yes, BD is growing alright, at an extremely slow, turtle-like pace.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I have yet to see any that has not been an improvemnet over the DVD.

That's a matter of personal opinion, and I disagree.

Originally Posted by Terjyn

The 23,000 titles was at the (near) year 6 point of DVD. As a general rule people always decide that 6-10 months of DVD "didn't count" for some reason, while by god every single minute of Blu-Ray's release counts, and the press release where the 23000 titles came from pulled the same trick.

Blu-Ray won't catch up by year 6, but I'm disgusted that press release got the same stupid crap wrong every anti-Blu-Ray article has since day 1 of the format.

A few months makes absolutely no difference here. Even 5 years from now, if it's still going somewhat strong, Blu will most likely be nowhere near the 20,000 title mark.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Canada

DVD is still kicking butt.

Originally Posted by financially stable

right..

Actually, if you put aside all the hype that's sort of correct. In 2010, according to Home Media Magazine, BD achieved a 15.2% market share and DVD (obviously) achieved an 84.8% market share. (Note: those numbers are subject to change because HMM changed their methodology in October and when they now do their comparisons to 2010, they are using the revised methodology.)

However, in 2010, DVD had a decline in revenue of 5.7% and Blu-ray had an increase of 28.69%. So while DVD is still killing BD in terms of overall size of market, it's not exactly kicking butt with a 5.7% decline in revenue.

Also, one can make the case that it doesn't matter what the overall market is doing because that constitutes a very large number of titles that sell tiny amounts each. That the only thing that counts are the current hits because that's where all the sales are. And if you look at that, BD is doing better than the above numbers imply, although it's still not the majority of sales for most titles.

Also, if you combine DVD and BD sales, the industry experienced an approximate 1.7% decline in 2010.

But with both BD player prices and title prices dropping (although prices have certainly rebounded from their holiday sale lows), 2011 BD sales should be pretty good. I never thought I'd see BD players around the $100 price point and titles around the $10-$12 price points so soon.

The question still remains as to which will achieve significant market share first: digital downloads or BD (not that they can't co-exist.) In the music market, consumers chose convenience over quality with compressed MP3 downloads (although the thing that really killed the music market was the move back from albums to single sales, a factor that doesn't exist for movies.)

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by nameisjimbo

I get the feeling that you are going to shift the goal posts to whatever you feel supports your argument. Thanks, but no thanks.

Leave the feelings aside, let's deal with facts and hard data.

Pro-B

[krazeyeyez]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I don't agree, that you talk about friends, shows it is a very real issue. We all know many people that pirate.


On the issue of crap, we are all different when something is free or not. Just because they accerpt something that is free, does not mean they would accept it if they had to pay

That was not the point i was making, i fully agree it happens, and many people do it. What my point was, is that i do not agree that this messes with numbers or percentages or sales of any kind when it comes to new releases. The people who generally watch these bootlegs seem to do there very rare dvd purchasing at second hand used type stores for $1 dvd's. These are not the people who would pay $20+ the day of release for a dvd and would see no benefit to blu-ray video or "lossless" sound.

I was just saying that in relation to the post i quoted, these people get those new releases because they are free, not because they need or want them day one and especially not for that premium price.

@Cevolution - i understand that my personal experience/friends is a limited percentage of the market and should not be taken as a good example of the whole However i am in my 20's and end up at friend of friend of friends pads on a consistent basis partying. These are just my observations and they seem to be pretty standard among my age group and younger, was all that i was saying when it comes to those who pirate. In fact to this day out of all the people i know sporting a ps3 only one has been converted to the blu side of things and that took months of me lending him enough videos that when he finally went back to dvd he noticed the difference.

This kind of testimonial does not bode well for the format imo. I myself was not that impressed when i first started in with blu-ray but i have always been an early adopter of anything video/tech related and saw no reason to wait. Just glad my red investment at the time was minimal

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

That was not the point i was making, i fully agree it happens, and many people do it. What my point was, is that i do not agree that this messes with numbers or percentages or sales of any kind when it comes to new releases. The people who generally watch these bootlegs seem to do there very rare dvd purchasing at second hand used type stores for $1 dvd's. These are not the people who would pay $20+ the day of release for a dvd and would see no benefit to blu-ray video or "lossless" sound.

I was just saying that in relation to the post i quoted, these people get those new releases because they are free, not because they need or want them day one and especially not for that premium price.

@Cevolution - i understand that my personal experience/friends is a limited percentage of the market and should not be taken as a good example of the whole However i am in my 20's and end up at friend of friend of friends pads on a consistent basis partying. These are just my observations and they seem to be pretty standard among my age group and younger, was all that i was saying when it comes to those who pirate. In fact to this day out of all the people i know sporting a ps3 only one has been converted to the blu side of things and that took months of me lending him enough videos that when he finally went back to dvd he noticed the difference.

This kind of testimonial does not bode well for the format imo. I myself was not that impressed when i first started in with blu-ray but i have always been an early adopter of anything video/tech related and saw no reason to wait. Just glad my red investment at the time was minimal

And u missed my point. People who pretty much rely on pirating, still obviously enjoy watching movies (yeah they might not care about quality but that's a totally different issue). If u took away pirating or any other illegal way they could get their hands on movies, then they would be forced to buy them if they still want to keep watching movies (though they might wait for prices to drop before buying movies they want). Most wouldn't just stop watching movies altogether, and if they have the money a lot would pay $20 for them if they had no other choice, it's just they don't have to now so they don't. Yes pirates will always go for the cheaper option (which is why they choose to pirate movies in the 1st place, as they would rather spend their money on other things), and if piracy was eliminated, then they would just start getting their movies by the next cheapest option, whether that be paying for downloads/streaming, buying dvd's or possibly even the cheaper blu-rays titles available, or renting if they only want to see a movie rather than owning it.

In my experience, out of the people I know who pirate or get movies illegally, the worst offenders are those in their 20's, and most titles they pirate are new releases because that's what they want to watch, what's fresh. Of course piracy affects sales because less people are buying movies, who might otherwise buy them if piracy was taken away from them and they had no other option. There are also lots of people who would like to get into blu-ray who just can't at the moment, I know plenty of people who would love to, and see the advantages of it but just simply can't afford it, because they have more important things to pay for such as the $3500 it costs them a month for their mortgage repayments, add that to all of their other monthly expenses and they don't have enough money left over afterwards, so they just settle for dvd's.

I have quite a bit of experience comparing blu-rays to dvd's, probably more than most people. I own just over 430 blu-ray titles (which are shown in my HT gallery), around 250 of which have been movies I have repurchased on blu that I used to own on dvd. Now the difference might be minimal with a very small amount of titles, but for most there is a pretty big difference. The value of those differences or whether a person cares can only be determined by each individual, but what gets me is people saying similar to what you're said because u personally don't care or see the value, so u start speaking on behalf of everyone else, calling them and yourself the majority.

Anyone who says they can't really see a difference, is saying that from a value prospective, because lets face it, if u can't see a difference at all, then those people either must own poor equipment which is not setup or calibrated properly or need to go see an optometrist. Also a lot of people who claim they don't see a difference, last watched the movie a few years before on dvd, and they think they remember it looking the same when it doesn't. Not only that, but quite often the last time they saw the dvd version was on a small 68cm crt tv or monitor, screens that size barely bring out any flaws in dvd's. I have thought in the past when getting the odd blu-ray title home that there isn't much of a difference between it and the dvd, when I have thought that, I straight away eject the blu-ray and insert the dvd version of the same movie. As soon as the dvd loads up I realize I was wrong as its very easy to see (and hear) the differences.

If u actually truly believe the differences are so minimal that it's not worth it, then your entitled to your opinion. All I can say is u should experiment with a real copy (not pirated) of both the dvd and blu-ray versions of a movie, try it with an older movie like home alone for example (as using an older movie will prove my point even more). Have both a dvd player and a blu-ray player setup at the same time connecting them both via hdmi to the tv, then load up each movie in it's player, pause each movie at exactly the same spot, then toggle between both hdmi connections, and if u don't see a huge difference by doing that then like I said above, I would be wondering whats wrong with your gear or eyes.

[Ray O. Blu]

"However i am in my 20's and end up at friend of friend of friends pads on a consistent basis partying."

That's a helluva demographic to base an argument on.

Will Blu-ray survive? Yes, it has a scratch-resistant coating. NEXT!!!

[krazeyeyez]

I just tend to think those that live on bootlegs and mp3's and the like do not effect blu-ray as a format... sure if you cut them off from their illegal avenues they will still seek out stuff, most likely in the form of borrowing, or second hand at used stores. If anything i see pirating effecting dvd sales, but not blu-ray sales, because lets face it, thanks to places like bestbuy blu-ray 5 years into its lifespan still carries the stigma of a $35 price tag in most peoples minds.

As for equipment or eye sight knocks or whatever.... you can't honestly say that every movie highlights what blu-ray has to offer, especially when your talking about the average consumer, and not someone who frequents a site like this. There is a reason HTIB's, Bose, etc... dominate and its not always a price factor, its because the average consumer just doesn't care. Now i obviously do, my first dvd player was $800 and my first blu-ray player was over $500. But even when i toss in a blu-ray i don't always notice that lossy is the default sound, or sometimes have to remember if i put in a blu-ray or dvd because frankly HD itself is great.

Now if you think the average consumer is going to listen to techno babbly about screen sizes and distances, and eye sight capability lol, then the future of blu-ray is secure, remember size of tv and viewing distances and all that comes into blu-ray making it valuable. I just don't see that happening. I do not think blu-ray will be going anywhere soon. I just think the people here are in the minority because frankly HDTV and a DVD is quite an upgrade in experience, and buying into blu for your average "convenience over smarts" consumer is well, unlikely imo.

Originally Posted by Ray O. Blu

"However i am in my 20's and end up at friend of friend of friends pads on a consistent basis partying."

That's a helluva demographic to base an argument on.

Will Blu-ray survive? Yes, it has a scratch-resistant coating. NEXT!!!

hehe, it is when your talking about people who pirate movies... and that age group as a demographic is going to be the future market which is scary to someone like me who values quality in my media.


EDIT: your point of using older movies is golden though, their still seems to be a major misconception that only newer movies will look like a "blu-ray". Personally most of my favorites are older movies, i still can't believe how good 2001 looks.

[Trogdor2010]

As long as we buy their movies, why not keep them on check?

It's like having a collection of high quality, always in focus 16mm prints on each disc that you can watch in your convenience, and some awesome multichannel audio that compliments it.

Beats watching out of focus and damaged 35mm prints and poppy audio in poorly maintained theaters.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

I just tend to think those that live on bootlegs and mp3's and the like do not effect blu-ray as a format... sure if you cut them off from their illegal avenues they will still seek out stuff, most likely in the form of borrowing, or second hand at used stores. If anything i see pirating effecting dvd sales, but not blu-ray sales, because lets face it, thanks to places like bestbuy blu-ray 5 years into its lifespan still carries the stigma of a $35 price tag in most peoples minds.

As for equipment or eye sight knocks or whatever.... you can't honestly say that every movie highlights what blu-ray has to offer, especially when your talking about the average consumer, and not someone who frequents a site like this. There is a reason HTIB's, Bose, etc... dominate and its not always a price factor, its because the average consumer just doesn't care. Now i obviously do, my first dvd player was $800 and my first blu-ray player was over $500. But even when i toss in a blu-ray i don't always notice that lossy is the default sound, or sometimes have to remember if i put in a blu-ray or dvd because frankly HD itself is great.

Now if you think the average consumer is going to listen to techno babbly about screen sizes and distances, and eye sight capability lol, then the future of blu-ray is secure, remember size of tv and viewing distances and all that comes into blu-ray making it valuable. I just don't see that happening. I do not think blu-ray will be going anywhere soon. I just think the people here are in the minority because frankly HDTV and a DVD is quite an upgrade in experience, and buying into blu for your average "convenience over smarts" consumer is well, unlikely imo.



hehe, it is when your talking about people who pirate movies... and that age group as a demographic is going to be the future market which is scary to someone like me who values quality in my media.

Imo, piracy actually affects blu-ray sales more. One reason why dvd sales appear to be higher is because of the volumes that are purchased for the sole purpose of pirating and mass producing the illegal copies. If people were unable to pirate, then the total number of dvd's sold would most likely drop. It's harder to pirate a blu-ray and it costs more than pirating a dvd, so more dvd's are sold because of it. If it was the other way around, and easier and cheaper to use blu-ray for piracy, then dvd sales would drop and blu-ray sales would increase. Another reason is, pirating dvd's is cheaper than buying the proper version of either a dvd or blu-ray movie, So with that in mind, it's made it harder for blu-ray to take off and establish itself while these sorts of practices are going on, that many people are involved in. We all know that piracy has been around since way before dvd or blu-ray ever existed, but pirating vhs had no affect on the sales of another coexisting format, because it was the only format. If piracy was eliminated, and a person had a blu-ray version of a movie in one hand and the dvd in the other, trying to choose which to buy, in most cases they would choose the blu-ray.

That wouldn't have been the case a few years ago, but with blu-ray movies being pretty much the same price now, compared to most dvd's, and with new release blu-rays being only a few dollars more (which often come in a double pack with the dvd version as well), then most people are going to just spend the extra $2 on the blu-ray. I can't speak for the U.S, but 5 years after being released, blu-rays are cheaper than ever here in Australia. Yes we still get the odd title between $30-$40 (most of them being from Paramount studios I might add), but on average blu-ray movies here (besides new releases) are around $10-$20. Most new release titles range anywhere from $25-$35, but the same new release on dvd is usually only around $2 cheaper.

The problem is, people who pirate aren't even getting to the point where they are standing in a store trying to choose between a dvd or blu-ray, because they are getting the movie for cheaper by pirating. If they were in that situation, as I said above, most of them would choose blu-ray, as blu-ray prices are almost identical to dvd, so how isn't that taking away from blu-ray sales, obviously it is. You may be correct that, if pirates were completely cut off some would most certainly try to rent, borrow or purchase second hand copies instead of buying, but that would only be a small percentage of them, not all of them. There's no denying that blu-ray sales would increase if piracy ceased to exist, because if that were to happen, with current dvd and blu-ray pricing being so similar to one another, blu-ray would be the choice that most of them would go with, if they had to pick between dvd or blu-ray. Obviously dvd sales would increase as well, but most likely not as much as blu-ray.

I never said all movies highlight what blu-ray has to offer, but with most it does. Some people just choose to ignore the benefits for whatever reasons, which is their choice because everyone is not always going to be interested in the same things. That's why consumers love having options and it is another reason why the whole notion of physical media ever disappearing is a bunch of nonsense. Just because a number of consumers don't care, doesn't mean a single thing when it comes to the life span of blu-ray. Expensive speakers and HT equipment, cars, boats, and many other premium products are always going to be in the market place. A smaller percentage of people buy premium products, but that doesn't mean they will be made obsolete or will be discontinued any quicker.

Take toothbrushes for example, we have manual toothbrushes, and also premium electric toothbrushes available. Most people use manual toothbrushes, but electric toothbrushes are still available for those who want them. They both still brush your teeth, one's just more premium than the other. Much like with dvd and blu-ray, they both do the job they are intended for, but ones just more premium. At the end of the day, if there is profit to be made, and consumers are still willing to buy blu-rays or physical media in 10 years time (like most people on this site do), regardless of the percentage of market share it may have, they will still be made available for purchase.

Btw, If someone spends their money on Bose, that means they do care about quality, because that's what people who buy Bose think they are getting. The problem with that is, a lot of people who buy Bose believe their marketing hype. The truth is that, for the amount of money it costs, Bose doesn't even come close to comparing to other brands in the same price range. I certainly understand people buying the HTIB systems as they are cheaper (and convenient), but I've never understood why someone would spend the money for Bose considering that the quality is hardly better than that of most HTIB systems which cost significantly less.

[Bk_Tan]

Originally Posted by kdo

Other than a few catalogue titles I'm waiting on (which for the most part I could really care less if and when they make it to Blu), I've no further use for the film industry. I'm not interested in 3-D, I refuse to pay the ridiculous price to see all the new garbage that comes out at the theaters (which is why I've been to the movies about only 10 times in the past 10 years), and I don't plan on ever replacing the movies I currently have on DVD and/or Blu-ray. I think a lot of what might be going on right now, is the studios trying to figure out how they're going to keep afloat in the future, when physical media isn't going to be selling, and people will do with movies, what they've done with music (just get it all for free, or dirt cheap...)

They haven't. But most of the new stuff is junk.
.

I'm sorry, but how are you qualified to make this statement? Hell, who are you to even make a statement about DVDs?

It hadn't even taken off when you allegedly stopped going to the cinema, or wait, was it all BS exaggeration, which obviously makes the post weaker than it already is.

I wonder, what it is you exactly buy since you can't be buying all the junk that comes out?

Talk about ignorance and perceived superiority/elitism or should I just say a Chicken Little.