Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by punkguy03

Either that or you just don't want to admit you are wrong. Look blu-ray is great, but streaming is nice too and it is getting better. It looks even better then it did a couple years ago. I have been into blu-ray since its inception and I love it, but that doesn't mean I won't admit that streaming is nice and has good quality and great future potential.

Steedeel is from the U.K and I am from Australia, so there is no point in trying to use Netflix as a reference cause we don't have that service available in our countries. Netflix is available in 2 countries, so it's hardly a great point to use because what it can or cannot do is irrelevant to us. I can't speak for the U.K, but here in Australia our network cannot support something like that on such a large scale, well at least not with the same quality u describe Netflix to be anyway. So with being said, the answer is no streaming isn't great quality at all, at least not for most people in other countries other than the U.S and Canada.

[Tok]

The pundits usually have a vested interest in Blu-ray/DVD's key competitors like streaming or download services. The problem is that iTunes and other streaming services are also competing against each other. If we use the iTunes model that lowest quality/ease of distribution wins then guess what wins this round... Netflix. But there is the real crux of the problem. Studios are already feeling the pinch of Netflix devaluing their content. Netflix got away with giving streaming away this round, but if Netflix is going to stream A-list new release titles to customers expect a new pricing tier model.

For as much as we hear about DVD market shrinking and Blu-ray not taking up the slack, the real fact is that streaming/download segment has not done enough either to make up the lost sales.

The sad fact is that Netflix HD streaming is miniscule and services like Vudu with HDX is extremely overpriced... $5.99 for 48 hours?!??? Who came up with that model? The old CC Divx leaders.

If Vudu dropped to $3.99 for HDX, then I might consider them and drop Netflix as I have found I don't use their service much lately.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by punkguy03

Either that or you just don't want to admit you are wrong. Look blu-ray is great, but streaming is nice too and it is getting better. It looks even better then it did a couple years ago. I have been into blu-ray since its inception and I love it, but that doesn't mean I won't admit that streaming is nice and has good quality and great future potential.

He has no clue what he is talking about. Its like trying to convince a flat earth believer the world is round.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

Steedeel is from the U.K and I am from Australia, so there is no point in trying to use Netflix as a reference cause we don't have that service available in our countries. Netflix is available in 2 countries, so it's hardly a great point to use because what it can or cannot do is irrelevant to us. I can't speak for the U.K, but here in Australia our network cannot support something like that on such a large scale, well at least not with the same quality u describe Netflix to be anyway. So with being said, the answer is no streaming isn't great quality at all, at least not for most people in other countries other than the U.S and Canada.

You live in 1 of 2 countries whose government has decided that high speed internet access is a right. In the near future 98% of Australian households will have fiber optic high speed internet. You may not today, but you will soon. But this thread is called what again? "Streaming is here worldwide"? No. This thread is about the future. NetFlix is the industry leader in the U.S. today. In Europe there is, I believe, Sony's Qriocity that has streaming HD movies. Australia has several Internet TV options according to Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interne...n_in_Australia I don't know about them, but from what you've written here, I don't think you do either.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

In reply to the earlier post i have tried three hd streaming sources just for curiosity and have vowed never to watch another. The point that i make is that watching vhs is less of a ordeal than watching ANY stream simply because of thr compression. The picture breaking up and pixelating is the issue for me. That is the case with any stream. It takes me out of the film when i see water that seems to be alive with dancing blocks or fog/smoke that stutters across the screen. Vhs has many faults but at least it looks solid in the previosly mentioned conditions. People who sing and dance about streaming cannot be true film fans in my opinion.

Again.... specifically.... which three hd streaming services have you tried?

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

Again.... specifically.... which three hd streaming services have you tried?

I bet one is YouTube. But the real question is, what is your internet speed? Post it from http://www.speedtest.net. Run the test, then click on Share This Result. Click Copy and you can paste the image url here.

[punkguy03]

There are other options besides netflix. Being overseas isn't a defense, there are streaming options for you guys as well! You just have to know them. Also, the U.S. is a huge market, so the talk about netflix is going to happen. I believe the majority of people on this site are from the U.S. and the majority of blu-rays are also sold here as well, but look how many people also have netflix in addition to there blu-ray.

I go back to my original post, you can have blu-ray AND streaming. Wow what a concept.

[punkguy03]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

I bet one is YouTube. But the real question is, what is your internet speed? Post it from http://www.speedtest.net. Run the test, then click on Share This Result. Click Copy and you can paste the image url here.

I ran it 4 times and got 4 way different numbers ranging from 2.5 download speed up to 6.9. Either way my internet has always been just fine.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

You live in 1 of 2 countries whose government has decided that high speed internet access is a right. In the near future 98% of Australian households will have fiber optic high speed internet. You may not today, but you will soon. But this thread is called what again? "Streaming is here worldwide"? No. This thread is about the future. NetFlix is the industry leader in the U.S. today. In Europe there is, I believe, Sony's Qriocity that has streaming HD movies. Australia has several Internet TV options according to Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interne...n_in_Australia I don't know about them, but from what you've written here, I don't think you do either.

All the streaming services we have available here are quite poor and they are very expensive like I have already mentioned. We have already been over all this a few weeks ago, u can read all the info u want and post up links which ultimately mean nothing, because at the end of the day I live here and u don't, so I know more than u about where Australia is headed when it comes to high speed internet. Our government is trying to get back to surplus so laying new cables for high speed internet isn't a priority atm, and while they are trying to achieve the goal of getting back to surplus, they have put the nation broadband network on hold for now. Granted a small amount of lucky areas of the country have already had new cables layed, but most other area's are going to be waiting for quite a while, until our Government has the money to continue with the project.

Also another thing I have already said to u before is, it will take 15-20 years before everywhere in Australia is docked out with new cables, people who live in the cities will obviously benefit from it much quicker, but for people and families who live in rural area's (people who live out in the bush), it will be a very very long time before they have access to such speeds. I think u should just stick to talking about American because to be honest u have not 1 clue about anywhere else in the world, except for outdated info which u read on wikipedia.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by punkguy03

There are other options besides netflix. Being overseas isn't a defense, there are streaming options for you guys as well! You just have to know them. Also, the U.S. is a huge market, so the talk about netflix is going to happen. I believe the majority of people on this site are from the U.S. and the majority of blu-rays are also sold here as well, but look how many people also have netflix in addition to there blu-ray.

I go back to my original post, you can have blu-ray AND streaming. Wow what a concept.

Agreed... and that is the approach that the most entertainment fans take. It's the format fans that seem to take issue when others are able to enjoy both.

The question in this format is "will blu-ray survive." The obvious answer is yes and no. It will be around for quite a while.... but NOTHING lasts forever. People are ALLOWED to have varying opinions on just how long it will survive... and since none of us can possibly know the future... noone is in a place where they can tell anybody else that their opinion is wrong.

My opinion is that blu-ray is a strong competitor for around the next ten years... but that digital downloads and streaming will slowly creep up on it throughout that time, and eventually surpass it. Then the next big thing comes out and it will either be a new physical format... or a major advance in streaming technology, and people will begin to adopt it over the older options.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Read the engineer forums and you will see the issues that services like Direct and Dish have that individual stations don't.

so which are these engineering forums you frequent?

And you missed my point. I am chaste on cable and satellite converting 720p into 1080i and creating artifacts.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in KISS and so if it is 720p then keep it that way, but why would it create artefacts other then those created by upping the resolution on a good TV other then those that would be created by upscaling at home to show them as 1080p?

Don't see them EVER on NetFlix streaming. EVER. You don't know what NetFlix is streaming because there is buffering plus decompression. That is just the raw min. data stream.

do you think buffer means magic pixy dust. Obviously you know what is happening. Data is data and bitrate is bitrate. It can't play back at 40mbps when it is only getting to your home at 4mbps, unless we are talking DL to see later. If you want 1 minute of 40mbps playback you would need more then 10 minutes of 4mbps buffering before hand or the data won't get there in time. Now if you have a 4mbps pipe and one second needs 3mb and the next 5mb then a buffer can help with that, but not for a difference that is truly large and for a long time.

As for this being more then just a U.S. forum and my mentioning NetFlix. The person on who said this lives in a country on the verge of 98% Fiber Optics 100mb plus internet penetration. This is now I am talking about.

I don't know why you included this my post, I never said Netflix was off limit in the discussion. If Netflix offered something that did not suck completely (at least for anyone that cares about quality) through streaming then I would not be asking why you are discussing them or why you find it acceptable. And if in places where they have 100mbps at home and someone was offering BD quality streaming I would not be asking why those people find the quality acceptable.

The subject of the thread is "Will Bluray Survive" which means in the future, not today. In the lab, technology can transfer the ENTIRE contents of a BD disc in 24 milliseconds. Not stream it, just copy the entire disc. That is the future.

Labs don't matter. What gets to everyone’s door does. This is a network, the backbone will always need many , many, many times the multiple of what reaches each door, for 10 people to cruise at 100mbps the backbone they are all on needs to 1gbps and for 10,000 people 1tbps, and 10Mpeople it is one 1pbps and how many people just live in NY? and then there the fact that Telcos need to spend the $$$$$ to bring this tech to our homes that in more rural areas becomes extremely expensive (less people per mile).

Also if we are talking future then why are we talking BD? obviously
it will be many many many years before this lab technology you are talking about is common place in all homes. Why would BD quality be acceptable by then? Is VHS still acceptable today? I hope by then we are close to 8k loss less if not beyond that.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I hope by then we are close to 8k loss less if not beyond that.

slick1ru2 doesn't think we need 8K remember.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by punkguy03

I ran it 4 times and got 4 way different numbers ranging from 2.5 download speed up to 6.9. Either way my internet has always been just fine.

I actually meant Steedeel.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

slick1ru2 doesn't think we need 8K remember.

Actually most don't think you don't need what you can't see. If there is no difference or a barely discernible difference, why chuck out a perfectly good technology? Just so the electronics companies can make more money off us? That I can tell the difference is bull. Do it in a double blind study and report back.

And no, just because you live somewhere doesn't mean you know what's going on. You totally avoided the fiber optic issue there until I brought it up. YOU may think its not going to happen because you are obviously biased against it. The link I posted said that streaming caps for some video services are waved by some ISPs, something else you failed to mention.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

Agreed... and that is the approach that the most entertainment fans take. It's the format fans that seem to take issue when others are able to enjoy both.

The question in this format is "will blu-ray survive." The obvious answer is yes and no. It will be around for quite a while.... but NOTHING lasts forever. People are ALLOWED to have varying opinions on just how long it will survive... and since none of us can possibly know the future... noone is in a place where they can tell anybody else that their opinion is wrong.

My opinion is that blu-ray is a strong competitor for around the next ten years... but that digital downloads and streaming will slowly creep up on it throughout that time, and eventually surpass it. Then the next big thing comes out and it will either be a new physical format... or a major advance in streaming technology, and people will begin to adopt it over the older options.

I agree too. Anyone who thinks that streaming is all crap must have dial up.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Streaming by its very nature does have compression problems. You cannot get a good picture from a file that is so heavily compressed. It is just common sense. The connection speed will dictate picture to a certain extent but it will not eliminate artefact's associated with streaming and downloads.

You say you do not see any blocking or compression problems. I don't believe you. simple as that.

yes and no. Data is data, it does not matter how it gets there. Does the network inability to reach speeds necessary for decent looking video affect quality? yes but IF the network could be close to 100mbps for everyone then Netfllix could be offering BD quality.

Does streaming have more issues then disk based? Yes that is why I talked of 100mbps and not 40mbps. When we discuss BD and 40mbps that is true video bitrate, and when we discuss 48mbps that is A/V rate, but BD is actually 54mbps when you add error coding. The difference is that the extra bitrate is not seen anywhere for disks. On the other hand with streaming, you have the IP overhead which is relatively heavy and then you have the streaming overhead and all that is included in the bitrate shown by your modem, so it needs to be substantially higher if all else is equal. Would it be double, not realy, but better safe then sorry and if it does not get there in time it really affects playback.

[Steedeel]

Three Services? Qriocity, xbox and itunes. All hd. All suitable for computer screens but not my plasma in my opinion. My internet speed is irrelevant. I watched these at my girlfriends who has solid 10 meg connection. My girlfriend is buying a bluray player for xmas i personally do not watch streams in my own home.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Three Services? Qriocity, xbox and itunes. All hd. All suitable for computer screens but not my plasma in my opinion. My internet speed is irrelevant. I watched these at my girlfriends who has solid 10 meg connection. My girlfriend is buying a bluray player for xmas i personally do not watch streams in my own home.

You ever hear of Roku HD? And your Internet speed is TOTALLY relevant. That's what you keep dismissing/missing. Its like saying you are using composite RCA cables to stream HD vs HDMI and have a crappy picture so HD sucks.

Lets see some speedtest results from your girlfriend's house. You don't always get what you pay for. I was having dropped packets on initial install. Turns out the area equipment was bad and had to be replaced.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Actually most don't think you don't need what you can't see. If there is no difference or a barely discernible difference, why chuck out a perfectly good technology? Just so the electronics companies can make more money off us? That I can tell the difference is bull. Do it in a double blind study and report back.

And no, just because you live somewhere doesn't mean you know what's going on. You totally avoided the fiber optic issue there until I brought it up. YOU may think its not going to happen because you are obviously biased against it. The link I posted said that streaming caps for some video services are waved by some ISPs, something else you failed to mention.

Oh you're 1 of those, I suppose u buy your groceries in bulk too so u can save a whole 50 cents. I couldn't careless about $3000 I spent 10 years ago, life is about enjoying yourself and buying what u want if it makes u happy, as long as u can afford it. People lose more money trading in a car they have owned for a few years to buy a new 1, than they do on electronics. We lose money on almost every purchase we make so why does it matter as electronic equipment is no different? Besides based on the quality of some of today's gear, a lot of it won't last more than 10 years anyway.

I seem to know more than u about my country so far, how did I avoid the fiber optics issue? Yes it's happening and all Australians know it, but the question is when, it certainly won't be finished by the time u think the future will be here. If u actually did some proper research then u would know that Internet Service Providers here which offer unlimited services cost $70-$80 plus a month, which is just unaffordable for a lot of people. Maybe I am biased against it, but u are clearly biased for it, so what's your point? U seem to put a lot of trust in everything u read, but an intelligent person knows that u don't believe everything u read.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

So with being said, the answer is no streaming isn't great quality at all, at least not for most people in other countries other than the U.S and Canada.

Netflix is not that great either. The issue is that it is a good price at the moment, if you rent BDs then it is included for free and if you don't it is under 8$ and you can watch as many movies as you want in a month. That is why they feal a need to say how it is "great" even though it is not as good as BD. If it was realy about quality and "convenience" then they would not be talking of Netflix but Vudu which has the best PQ available, but that is not a cheap rental plan.

Not that there is anything wrong with being cheap and preferring $ in pocket then quality but there is something wrong with the BS that it looks great when it does not.