Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[U4K61]

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

Anyone ever notice how many of the "can't see a difference" people choose to watch there cable shows in hd and can see a difference there...

Same here...

[mdo7]

Please recall when DVDs first came out in 1995, it didn't pick up immediately, so I don't see Blu-ray not taking off from the beginning any different from DVDs when they first came out in 1995, it didn't get popular until after 2000. I remember I had some early copies of DVDs (I believe Diva was one of those early DVD release that came out during DVD-video early year)



I watch it and the picture quality was not really good. and the menu doesn't look good as the re-released version with better menu and picture quality.



above is the re-release version with better picture quality and better menu. I would like to see a blu-ray release if that's possible. But yeah DVD didn't pick up immediately when it first came out and the video quality on DVD wasn't good back then until like in 2000 where digital remaster on film improve films on DVD both in term of pictures and audio quality.

For Blu-ray beside the economy problem and not much improvement when it first came out until several factors made blu-ray well better. I can list factor why Blu-ray didn't pick up:

-not a lot of special features (early blu-rays would have same special features like DVD).
-economy problem
-format war (remember Blu-ray had competition against HD-DVD, so that could be another factor why Blu-ray didn't pick up)
-Blu ray is also going up against streaming (Netflix) and movie downloads (Itunes, etc...)

But I've seen Blu-ray got better probably due to these:

-Blu-ray 3D
-BD-Live
-Blu-ray won the format war against HD-DVD
-Exclusive special features found on Blu-ray but not on DVDs (my Bond 50 blu-ray had a bonus disc with special features that the DVDs doesn't have, the same thing for Halo Legends blu-ray, it had one exclusive special features not found on DVD)
-Blu-ray is getting improvement (I heard something about a 100+ GB blu-ray coming out in the future )

So as Blu-ray improve, I guess people will buy more Blu-ray. As I said, when DVD first came out in 1995, it didn't pick up immediately.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by biznus97

It's figuring out if the differences (good and bad) substantial enough to re-buy the movie for a second (3rd or 4th) time. Then there is the question of will it be released on BD for a second (3rd or 4th) time.

I agree with you here, most serious people need a very good reason to buy a new blu ray of a movie they already have. A movie like Lawrence of Arabia, Baraka, Patton and the Sound of Music beg to be collected by those with good equipment to watch them on. But a film like The Vow or the Beginners, most people do not and wont care about those types of movies, they just want to watch the film.

[alphadec]

The problem is "INTERNET" that is the reason.

But lets say something happens in your life that you cannot afford to have a internet connection or some economical situation so u must close your internet. Right then it would be nice to have stored your movies on a optical medium like cd/blu-ray.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by alphadec

The problem is "INTERNET" that is the reason.

But lets say something happens in your life that you cannot afford to have a internet connection or some economical situation so u must close your internet. Right then it would be nice to have stored your movies on a optical medium like cd/blu-ray.

Some truth in this, but there are people like myself who enjoy collecting films. I have a large collection of laserdiscs, dvds, and some blu rays. The issue with blu ray is that the image quality is only great if you spend the money and get a HDTV and listen to the movie on a good sound system.

Most consumers do not care about perfect picture or HD quality sound. Also, there are people who do not want the movies collection taking up space.

The future will be downloading and streaming for most people, and then there will be blu rays for the people who really want them. It will kind of be like the laserdisc era all over again.

[thejej]

Personally, I like UV better because I can access my movie collection anywhere as long as I have an internet connection. There are a few Blu-Ray titles I am looking into getting but that's just because they're part of a set (per se the Harry Potter Wizard's Collection). I personally see everything going digital. In about 20 years, about the only thing that won't be digital is the advertisements telling you to go digital.

[oppopioneer]

Why did blu ray not take off like DVD's ?

A few reasons I think in no particular order...

The economy. Bd's and bd players and the whole 1080p HD era was launched around the financial collapse. Consumers and electronic companies took a hit. Pioneer pulled out of the tv business, their bd players are no longer true genuine Pioneer bd players. People didn't want to or didn't have the money to spend to upgrade.

DVD's were still popular and people's dvd collection were becoming pretty big and just spent so much money replacing their VHS collection and weren't ready or weren't wanting to start a new collection of discs on a new format that they thought wasn't a big enough step up in improvement in PQ. Don't get me wrong, dvd and bluray is a difference in PQ but not by a mile. A lot of novices can't see a huge difference between a dvd and bluray on their 40inch flatscreen that isn't even 1080p. So many people still have 720p and 1080i tv's.

Plus, there's only so many young people in this country who are passionate about electrionics and can afford to upgrade. Lots of seniors in thie country aren't excited or passionate about this new technology and will stick with their 10 year old tv and 10 year old dvd player. Plus lots of young people are living in dorm rooms, in apartments and don't have the money to spend on new electronics. I bet the vast majority of members at this website are under 40 years old, most are under 30 years old I bet.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

Plus, there's only so many young people in this country who are passionate about electrionics and can afford to upgrade. Lots of seniors in thie country aren't excited or passionate about this new technology and will stick with their 10 year old tv and 10 year old dvd player. Plus lots of young people are living in dorm rooms, in apartments and don't have the money to spend on new electronics. I bet the vast majority of members at this website are under 40 years old, most are under 30 years old I bet.

Bingo! Most people who adopted dvd, adopted it because VHS was done.

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

DVD's were still popular and people's dvd collection were becoming pretty big and just spent so much money replacing their VHS collection and weren't ready or weren't wanting to start a new collection of discs on a new format that they thought wasn't a big enough step up in improvement in PQ. Don't get me wrong, dvd and bluray is a difference in PQ but not by a mile. A lot of novices can't see a huge difference between a dvd and bluray on their 40inch flatscreen that isn't even 1080p. So many people still have 720p and 1080i tv's.

Well said, and this is exactly why I will not upgrade certain DVDs to blu ray.

And for the DVD renting person, digital rentals is so much easier than going to rent a DVD.

The blu ray market is for a niche collector, very similar to laserdisc owners before dvds came around.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

The blu ray market is for a niche collector, very similar to laserdisc owners before dvds came around.

I think we'll start seeing blu-ray be more mainstream here shortly. Blu-ray is doing very well and people said the same thing about DVD being only for niche collectors. I can't count how many times people said that DVD would never take off or that they didn't see a need to buy into it yet both have since been proven wrong.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

And the point that was made in my last post that when tech is clearly better (i.e. everyone agrees) then it eventually replaces the old (no more CRT TVs, no more VHS, no more 78 rpm records no more audio tapes) when it is just new but not accepted by everyone as better then it never does (33 rpm records are still around because some people think they sound better and still chose to buy and listen to them even though CDs came out 30 years ago, CDs are still the lions share of music sales.....

This is it in a nutshell. For one format to dominate, everyone has to agree; I can't see there ever being a time when everyone agrees downloads are best, esp with technology moving as fast as it does.

I bought a brand new SACD today over the counter at an actual shop. I absolutely rock the dead formats, me. Some people like SACDs, ergo, some SACDs are still available.

[biznus97]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

I think we'll start seeing blu-ray be more mainstream here shortly. Blu-ray is doing very well and people said the same thing about DVD being only for niche collectors. I can't count how many times people said that DVD would never take off or that they didn't see a need to buy into it yet both have since been proven wrong.

I remember those days but there are a couple of things that are a lot different from over a decade ago.

1) There are a lot more options for watching tv and film. Renting prices are worlds better than ever before and streaming/digital downloads are slowly making strides.

2) I don't think we've had a format where people went all in to purchase films they loved, liked, thought were ok, and went in totally blind. I think since this is the format after DVD, movie collecting isn't as mainstream as it was years ago.

Also, I think in addition to the format war, the console war being split on which movie format would be supported didn't help HD movie adoption. This last generation the Xbox 360 and PS3 seemed to both have a good level of support.My first non-PC DVD player was a PS2. The PS2's only competition back then was the Dreamcast and later the Xbox. Both the PS2 and Xbox supported DVD playback.
Come to think of it, having native O/S support of Blu-ray would have been a help as well since a lot of people seem to catch up on movies and tv shows on the go. Blu-ray playback in PC's is still a bit buggy and a premium expense where is DVD playback can be obtained easily.
As a movie lover, I enjoy watching my favorite films and older ones that I like but I also enjoy discovering new films from around the world. Since I only want to spend so much on this hobby, I have to choose which titles I want to upgrade, buy for the first time, etc. This didn't happen for me with DVD as my VHS collection was in the single digits.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by biznus97

I remember those days but there are a couple of things that are a lot different from over a decade ago.

1) There are a lot more options for watching tv and film. Renting prices are worlds better than ever before and streaming/digital downloads are slowly making strides.

not realy, there have always been many options during DVD there was VHS (production stopped in 2006), LD, DVHS, VCD and BD/HD-DVD (started in 2006) just to name a few there was never a time when DVD had 100% of the market nor was there a time when it was the only choice. This idea that a split market is something new is just a story invented by people that just bought a DVD one day and then the next all they were buying was DVD and have forgotten that it was never that neat

2) I don't think we've had a format where people went all in to purchase films they loved, liked, thought were ok, and went in totally blind. I think since this is the format after DVD, movie collecting isn't as mainstream as it was years ago.

I am not sure of your point, you say there was never a format where people went all in, and that is true, there have always been renters and there have always been buyers, I don't know why you see it different now. I was a buyer when DVD was king and I am a buyer today, my three sisters were renters when DVVD was king and they are renters today with renting most of the films they watch an d buying just a few.

As a movie lover, I enjoy watching my favorite films and older ones that I like but I also enjoy discovering new films from around the world. Since I only want to spend so much on this hobby, I have to choose which titles I want to upgrade, buy for the first time, etc. This didn't happen for me with DVD as my VHS collection was in the single digits.

[Terjyn]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

The blu ray market is for a niche collector, very similar to laserdisc owners before dvds came around.

People need to stop saying this, as it is beyond absurd.

It was HUGE news when a movie sold ~200k copies on LD. Like best-selling LD of all time type of news.

Blu-ray was doing better than that before HDDVD died.

There are only two reasons anyone has ever compared Blu-ray to LD. Ignorance or Agenda.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

People need to stop saying this, as it is beyond absurd.

It was HUGE news when a movie sold ~200k copies on LD. Like best-selling LD of all time type of news.

Blu-ray was doing better than that before HDDVD died.

There are only two reasons anyone has ever compared Blu-ray to LD. Ignorance or Agenda.

agree

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

People need to stop saying this, as it is beyond absurd.

It was HUGE news when a movie sold ~200k copies on LD. Like best-selling LD of all time type of news.

Blu-ray was doing better than that before HDDVD died.

There are only two reasons anyone has ever compared Blu-ray to LD. Ignorance or Agenda.

The ignorant one just looks at the sales numbers. Blu ray sales numbers are inflated right now, they will go down, far down over time. For Blu ray to continue and have any chance and going forward, it will need the collectors to support the format, it currently is a superior format to all other methods of watching home video except for the fact that one needs a substantial upgrade to reproduce master audio, 7.1, and 1080p. This is the same situation that happened when laserdisc was the superior format back in the 90s. Laserdisc required a high end sound system, 6 discreet speakers and not to mention a very high end players as laserdisc picture quality was player dependent.

Going forward, the future of home video watching/renting will be downloading. Those people who at the present time do not collect films, but simply rent blu rays from Redbox or Blockbuster are all of sudden not going to start buying blu rays, they will shift to renting them online.

For the serious collector, blu rays will be there. And for those who care about superior sound and superior picture quality as well as the ownership aspect, there will be box sets with exclusive content.

Laserdisc owners know the value of collecting and would understand this.....did you ever own laserdiscs?

[JoshK]

For myself I didn't get into Blu-ray until this Christmas because I didn't have a HDTV before then. I figured there was no point. I'm probably going to be selective on which BD I buy because of price points and storage in my house is minuscule. I don't have room for a wall sized Blu ray shelf. I want to make my collection small but worthy.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

The ignorant one just looks at the sales numbers.

come on Terjyn you should know better. Ignorant people look at the sales numbers gather the facts and then make a reasonable conclusion based on the facts, don't be ignorant. Do like pagemaster spout out garbadge, forget the facts and stick to your conclusion no matter how much it does not make sense when compared to reality. Because as he knows BD sales are inflated by people buying BDs. and they will eventualy go down so who cares if it is thge fastest growingt medium right now

[biznus97]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

not realy, there have always been many options during DVD there was VHS (production stopped in 2006), LD, DVHS, VCD and BD/HD-DVD (started in 2006) just to name a few there was never a time when DVD had 100% of the market nor was there a time when it was the only choice. This idea that a split market is something new is just a story invented by people that just bought a DVD one day and then the next all they were buying was DVD and have forgotten that it was never that neat

Maybe in your area major retail stores carried LD, DVHS, and VCD but they didn't in my area. You are correct that a split market isn't a new idea but the reality is that when home media sales weren't on the decline most people were buying DVD's instead of the above mentioned formats.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I am not sure of your point, you say there was never a format where people went all in, and that is true, there have always been renters and there have always been buyers, I don't know why you see it different now. I was a buyer when DVD was king and I am a buyer today, my three sisters were renters when DVVD was king and they are renters today with renting most of the films they watch an d buying just a few.

My point is the adoption rate DVD had as a platform for home media purchases was much higher than most of the previous formats. This was aided by several factors including its use in game systems and PC's. The convenience factor has already be talked about in this thread and people being able to take one disc and play it in 3 or four pieces of equipment at home is definitely that.
Secondly, although you have given examples of people that chose not to buy or buy many DVD's there were many that did. The number in a collection isn't absolutely critical. The point is when the HD formats were introduced there were more people than in previous format transitions in a position to upgrade an existing collection rather than starting for the first time. If there is another physical format I think it will have an even harder time.

In many places a lot of the hassles (high per movie fees, late fees, limited selections, physical travel to a movie store, etc.) historically associated with renting have been mitigated with today's offerings. The rental options available today require little to no extra hardware making them more accessible than ever before. This hurts media sales across the board which I'm sure studios would love to see higher than they are now. The early to middle part of DVD's lifespan didn't have the same hurdles to deal with.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

The ignorant one just looks at the sales numbers.

And when you look at these sales numbers, what do you see? The format keeps growing. Unless you are someone with an agenda, like the few HDDVD fanboys that still post on a couple of forums trying to "prove" that somehow Blu-ray has to match some imaginable DVD sales number(s), it should be pretty obvious to you that in this economic reality the format is doing as best as possible.

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Blu ray sales numbers are inflated right now, they will go down, far down over time.

I am unsure I understand your point. How does one inflate numbers? You got some evidence that those parties that report sales numbers have channeled incorrect information? If not, then this is a laughable statement.

Originally Posted by pagemaster

For Blu ray to continue and have any chance and going forward, it will need the collectors to support the format, it currently is a superior format to all other methods of watching home video except for the fact that one needs a substantial upgrade to reproduce master audio, 7.1, and 1080p. This is the same situation that happened when laserdisc was the superior format back in the 90s. Laserdisc required a high end sound system, 6 discreet speakers and not to mention a very high end players as laserdisc picture quality was player dependent.

This is also a skewed point. DVD's boom was also driven by approximately 10% of heavy collectors, the overwhelming majority of which have moved to Blu-ray. Going forward, the market will be fractured, with some numbers for Blu-ray (big ones), DVD (decent ones), and streaming (for renting). This is it. And this is what the HDDVD fanboys can't seem to get in their heads: it is not the one or the other, it is a mix of different options.

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Going forward, the future of home video watching/renting will be downloading. Those people who at the present time do not collect films, but simply rent blu rays from Redbox or Blockbuster are all of sudden not going to start buying blu rays, they will shift to renting them online.

Completely disagree with you. I, and there are many millions like me, will not be doing watching/renting only via downloading. Physical media will be around to purchase for many years to come.

Originally Posted by pagemaster

For the serious collector, blu rays will be there. And for those who care about superior sound and superior picture quality as well as the ownership aspect, there will be box sets with exclusive content.

Well, then what you wrote above goes against your own claim earlier.

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Laserdisc owners know the value of collecting and would understand this.....did you ever own laserdiscs?

I did. And without knowing your collection, I am fairly certain that I had a much bigger LD collection because I had to work with different distributors directly. My DVD collecting habits were different because at the time I no longer was involved directly with these parties, but I amassed a much bigger number of films (in the upper 4000s during the DVD boom). Now combined, Blu-ray and DVD, I've slimmed to about 2800s because I removed most duplicates last year. But I am fairly certain that my library will grow in the upper 3500s this year. And I am definitely not planning to slow down. (Why? Read below).

What I am trying to convey to is this: For me the "value" so many people are apparently concerned with never changed. I always bought the films I liked, I did not collect discs. First it was LD/VHS, then DVD, and now Blu-ray. Never had a problem upgrading. I've only kept some foreign editions when I wanted the exclusive extras. Now I have "ultimate editions" for many important films

But you better believe this: I am not spending 1$ on downloads. Unless I have the film I like to own on a disc on my shelf, then I AM NOT interested in "owning" anything.

Thanks.

Pro-B

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

People need to stop saying this, as it is beyond absurd.

It was HUGE news when a movie sold ~200k copies on LD. Like best-selling LD of all time type of news.

Blu-ray was doing better than that before HDDVD died.

There are only two reasons anyone has ever compared Blu-ray to LD. Ignorance or Agenda.

Bingo! Give this guy the biggest cigar you have!

Pro-B