Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[Steedeel]

Page master, you seem to have already made your mind up. Let us stick to bluray and you stick to streaming and we are all happy

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Page master, you seem to have already made your mind up. Let us stick to bluray and you stick to streaming and we are all happy

Steedeel, I like blu ray. I am about to watch my copy of The Dark Knight Rises on my big screen in 1080p and master HD....I can't wait till the IMAX sequences.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Page master, you seem to have already made your mind up. Let us stick to bluray and you stick to streaming and we are all happy

Everything Pagemaster has said in this thread has been based on his preferences and the way he likes to do things, i.e. watching dvd's/blu-rays on his little laptop (maybe he would think differently and his opinions wouldn't be so ignorant if he was watching dvd's/blu's on something bigger than 32" screen), and claiming that the majority are like him and do the same. He seems to consider himself as a part of the majority, an average consumer, and the way he speaks it's like he thinks he is some kind of spokesperson or ambassador for average consumers. His whole argument has been destroyed by people who actually have knowledge on the subject, such Anthony P and Pro B, but he often just ignores and disregards what has been said to him (or pretends he agrees but then contradicts himself in his following posts) and then still continues to go forward stating further ridiculous claims, making himself look even more foolish. At the end of the day this is mainly a blu-ray site, so if he doesn't really want to move on from DVD and wants to continue being a dvd fanboy because he's essentially too cheap, and doesn't want to be a part of the demographic, then why did he even become a member here? Just to preach his opinions about how good he still thinks DVD is, and to tell us that blu-ray is not needed in many circumstances

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

blu-rays on his little laptop

My laptop does have blu ray playback. I do watch iTunes movies, as well as YouTube movies on my 15.6" laptop screen on the odd occasion

Originally Posted by Cevolution

his opinions wouldn't be so ignorant if he was watching dvd's/blu's on something bigger than 32" screen), :

For the record, I have a 42 inch 1080p HDTV where I play my blu-rays in outstanding master audio sound with up to 7.1 depending on the film. I can't wait till I watch my Dark Knight Rises blu-ray, the IMAX sequences are going to be awesome or shall I say "breathtaking".....

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by biznus97

But even if it is niche, if it offers the best representation of films you own, and you watch them on a large screen like you have it seems like it is in line with you wanting the best.

does it? certainly it is the clearest but with a lot of movies, cheats in special effects and makeup were done because they knew people wouldn't be able to see it that clear. it has only been the last 20-30 years that movies have been made with home viewing in mind. they are meant to be seen on the big screen with the technology of the time. i see a lot of movies coming out but not too many that say "director approved" or something similar.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

My laptop does have blu ray playback. I do watch iTunes movies, as well as YouTube movies on my 15.6" laptop screen on the odd occasion

For the record, I have a 42 inch 1080p HDTV where I play my blu-rays in outstanding master audio sound with up to 7.1 depending on the film. I can't wait till I watch my Dark Knight Rises blu-ray, the IMAX sequences are going to be awesome or shall I say "breathtaking".....

That's still quite small to benefit from the full quality that blu-ray has to offer, so unless you sit within a metre from your 42" tv you will be missing out on detail. I own 2 40" screens and a 59" inch panel, and the quality seen is far better when watching blu's on the 59" tv. You keep mentioning The Dark Knight Rises as if shiny new looking films is all that matters. Forget The Dark Knight Rises, sure it looks nice, but so to do thousands of catalogue title on blu-ray that you are dismissing and claim are not worthy.

My laptop has a blu-ray drive also, but I never sit there and watch them on it, nor do I watch horrible looking full length content on YouTube. IMO YouTube is for finding small entertaining clips filmed by amateurs or for watching small scenes the run for a few minutes from movies or of your favorite music videos. It might be something that you haven't seen in years which you just thought of, but in no way do I view youtube as something to watch full episodes of tv shows or full length movies with.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Either sorting it out is draw a line or it is not.

Seriously, that's what we're still hung up on? Draw a line?

Companies can draw all the lines they want. The can pull triggers, they can itemize, prioritize and incentivize. The can proactively think outside the box about the best way to leverage low-hanging, mission-critical fruit.

Are we good now?

Because that would be a win-win.

Originally Posted by ouflak

This thread is going to be necro-bumped in about 3 to 4 years,...

Oh surely a site devoted to an outdated medium will have gone dark by then.

tick...tick...tick...

[biznus97]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

does it? certainly it is the clearest but with a lot of movies, cheats in special effects and makeup were done because they knew people wouldn't be able to see it that clear. it has only been the last 20-30 years that movies have been made with home viewing in mind. they are meant to be seen on the big screen with the technology of the time. i see a lot of movies coming out but not too many that say "director approved" or something similar.

It will be interesting to be able to compare if enough 4k content is made available. People who sit at recommended viewing distances are able to see some of the limitations you've noted on Blu-ray. There are other threads on here about 4K content that bring up a good points about other factors that could make a new format produce a better and more accurate representation of film such as advancements in compression, color depth, and so on. Plus the possibility of new content going forward being able to take advantage of such a format. Diminishing returns after Blu-ray are certainly possible but without real content we won't know.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by octagon

Oh surely a site devoted to an outdated medium will have gone dark by then.

tick...tick...tick...

LOL, every year I keep hearing how the CD and packaged music will be dead in favor of digital music.. And yet physical music sales still bring in the most revenue. Vinyl record sales have increased every year for the last five years...

Not everyone wants digital music and the same will be said for movies. It is not an all or nothing proposition for consumers or the studios and the studios don't give a rats ass how they make money, as long as they make money. If the studios killed off all packaged media tomorrow, they would lose billions as millions of Americans would simply stop buying movies and would rent them, or they would find something else to do.

For years I have listened to Blu-Ray haters tell me how the format is on borrowed time and each and every year the format continues to grow...

Packaged media is not going anywhere folks. In 3-4 years we will still have packaged media and most likely Blu-Ray will make up a big chunk of those sales. It ain't going anywhere....

[octagon]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

certainly it is the clearest but with a lot of movies, cheats in special effects and makeup were done because they knew people wouldn't be able to see it that clear.

That doesn't have much to do with clarity or resolution. Even back in ye olden times film had higher resolution than BD can display. We're seeing things that we might have missed on the DVD or VHS releases but we're not seeing anything that wasn't visible in theaters.

You're right about home video changing the way filmmakers look at film. They have to account for the ability of viewers to step through films frame-by-frame or manipulate brightness and contrast.

That's not something George Pal had to worry about.

But that started with videotape, it's not limited to BD.

[Steedeel]

Virtually every film ever made will benefit from bluray. Can't think of a single film that has not been an improvement over DVD in my collection. I have over 600 discs. Ranging from the stunning looking Prometheus to the almost achingly beautiful cinematography of the White Ribbon. I would probably cry if someone told me they watched them films via streaming. Just not the same experience.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

LOL, every year I keep hearing how the CD and packaged music will be dead in favor of digital music.. And yet physical music sales still bring in the most revenue. Vinyl record sales have increased every year for the last five years...

I think CD's and digital downloading work because there are both options. I just recently purchased the cd of Searching for Sugar Man because I wanted ownership of the movie and I wanted to listen to it on my good sound system. I like having options that I can choose.

As for vinyl records, the increase is not all that great compared to what cds and digital records sell. I personally buy a lot of used records and some new records when the price is not too high. I love vinyl.

Originally Posted by ack_bak

For years I have listened to Blu-Ray haters tell me how the format is on borrowed time and each and every year the format continues to grow...

I don't think blu ray is going to die out at all, nor is it on borrowed time. However, I do believe that the sales will level off to a lower more steady level eventually, and at that point, the blu ray collector or buyer will be very similar to the laserdisc buyer in that when the purchase the movies, they will be a little bit pricier (not it all cases) but there will be more content included in the package. Blu ray ownership will become a more prestige and exclusive ownership experience.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

I think CD's and digital downloading work because there are both options. I just recently purchased the cd of Searching for Sugar Man because I wanted ownership of the movie and I wanted to listen to it on my good sound system. I like having options that I can choose.

As for vinyl records, the increase is not all that great compared to what cds and digital records sell. I personally buy a lot of used records and some new records when the price is not too high. I love vinyl.

Yes, I agree that home entertainment (whether it be music, movies, games, etc) is all about options and choice. Digital makes things more convenient, and also more complicated in many ways.

I think there will always be collectors and lovers of packaged media, and as long as there is a profitable market for these people, the studios will cater to them. I use vinyl as an example since it is a small market (they sold 5 million vinyl records last year total) but it makes money and the studios are seeing growth in the market and support it.

IMHO, there are advantages to digitial music (you can buy one, two, or three songs for substantially less than buying a whole album, digitial music is much more portable than digitial movies too) that digital movies do not share. Which makes the transition from packaged movies to digital that much more difficult.

I don't think blu ray is going to die out at all, nor is it on borrowed time. However, I do believe that the sales will level off to a lower more steady level eventually, and at that point, the blu ray collector or buyer will be very similar to the laserdisc buyer in that when the purchase the movies, they will be a little bit pricier (not it all cases) but there will be more content included in the package. Blu ray ownership will become a more prestige and exclusive ownership experience.

Blu-Ray sales have already leveled off in 2012. The sales growth in terms of percentage and revenue dollars has slowed, but I still see Blu-Ray as a vital cog in the wheel for home video. At some point I can see studios and retailers embracing the combo pack for new releases and simply remove the single DVD and Blu skus from the shelf (at least for the first 8 weeks where the vast majority of sales happen). This would reduce the confusion for consumers, reduce the amount of shelf space that retailers use, and allow retailers and studios to charge more and make it more of a true collector item that works on all media (digital copy/UV, BD copy, DVD copy).

I believe this will happen within the next 2-3 years. But digital will 100% need to be positioned to take on the losses that optical disc will have in the future.

[biznus97]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

Yes, I agree that home entertainment (whether it be music, movies, games, etc) is all about options and choice. Digital makes things more convenient, and also more complicated in many ways.

I think there will always be collectors and lovers of packaged media, and as long as there is a profitable market for these people, the studios will cater to them. I use vinyl as an example since it is a small market (they sold 5 million vinyl records last year total) but it makes money and the studios are seeing growth in the market and support it.

IMHO, there are advantages to digitial music (you can buy one, two, or three songs for substantially less than buying a whole album, digitial music is much more portable than digitial movies too) that digital movies do not share. Which makes the transition from packaged movies to digital that much more difficult.




Blu-Ray sales have already leveled off in 2012. The sales growth in terms of percentage and revenue dollars has slowed, but I still see Blu-Ray as a vital cog in the wheel for home video. At some point I can see studios and retailers embracing the combo pack for new releases and simply remove the single DVD and Blu skus from the shelf (at least for the first 8 weeks where the vast majority of sales happen). This would reduce the confusion for consumers, reduce the amount of shelf space that retailers use, and allow retailers and studios to charge more and make it more of a true collector item that works on all media (digital copy/UV, BD copy, DVD copy).

I believe this will happen within the next 2-3 years. But digital will 100% need to be positioned to take on the losses that optical disc will have in the future.

Interesting points. The digital download race is like the HD format wars except nobody is winning. If they can increase quality, make it less cumbersome, and a clear standard is embraced it would help. The only other thing I can think of is if I were a digital content distributor/maker, I would go for exclusives something similar to what Netflix is doing with creating their own content.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by biznus97

Interesting points. The digital download race is like the HD format wars except nobody is winning. If they can increase quality, make it less cumbersome, and a clear standard is embraced it would help. The only other thing I can think of is if I were a digital content distributor/maker, I would go for exclusives something similar to what Netflix is doing with creating their own content.

I think UV was a step in the right direction, but not getting Apple and Disney on board with full support could continue to be a big problem.

Increasing quality is a problem because it is much deeper than the provider. The studios or a content provider like Netflix/Amazon/Vudu/etc cannot control the ISP. I just read that the improved Netflix streaming that was discussed at CES will require a minimum of 25mbps pipe and only a few ISP's will support it. I think this will improve over time, but right now I Comcast has a complete monopoly where I live on speeds over 2Mbps. I can get up to 80Mbps here from Comcast but it is uber expensive (like close to $150 a month after taxes) so I stick with 20Mbps plan.

And I am lucky. Before we moved to MN, the best speed I could get in Utah (Salt Lake was under 5Mbps. Max. That was about three years ago, and checking the area I see that 12Mbps is the max I could get now.

Digital has lots of potential, but I have a 125" screen and the difference between a digital move and Blu-Ray is extremely noticeable. I don't bother with Netflix or Amazon Prime on my 125" screen, the compression artifacts are just a deal breaker. Vudu HDX is actually pretty good, but it is just so much cheaper to rent a Blu-Ray, and I own so many Blu-Ray's that I just stick with that formula for now. 4K quality streaming is probably when I will completely switch from optical disc, but I am not sure how it will get delivered and if I will still be alive

[biznus97]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

I think UV was a step in the right direction, but not getting Apple and Disney on board with full support could continue to be a big problem.

Increasing quality is a problem because it is much deeper than the provider. The studios or a content provider like Netflix/Amazon/Vudu/etc cannot control the ISP. I just read that the improved Netflix streaming that was discussed at CES will require a minimum of 25mbps pipe and only a few ISP's will support it. I think this will improve over time, but right now I Comcast has a complete monopoly where I live on speeds over 2Mbps. I can get up to 80Mbps here from Comcast but it is uber expensive (like close to $150 a month after taxes) so I stick with 20Mbps plan.

And I am lucky. Before we moved to MN, the best speed I could get in Utah (Salt Lake was under 5Mbps. Max. That was about three years ago, and checking the area I see that 12Mbps is the max I could get now.

Digital has lots of potential, but I have a 125" screen and the difference between a digital move and Blu-Ray is extremely noticeable. I don't bother with Netflix or Amazon Prime on my 125" screen, the compression artifacts are just a deal breaker. Vudu HDX is actually pretty good, but it is just so much cheaper to rent a Blu-Ray, and I own so many Blu-Ray's that I just stick with that formula for now. 4K quality streaming is probably when I will completely switch from optical disc, but I am not sure how it will get delivered and if I will still be alive

Makes total sense. I keep a smaller screen around for SD and less than ideal HD for the same reason.

[Tok]

As far as BD inflated sales numbers... the last I checked also Apple wasn't willing to share actual numbers on how much revenue they are making by customers paying to buy movie content on iTunes. They might have shared a growth percentage but I think we all know what company is the elephant in the room when it comes to streaming and it has nothing to do with a worm riden fruit.

All of the 'pay-per-view' and 'digital sell-through' services are losing to Netflix.

But the reality of the situation as Netflix subscribers demand more A-list content on the streaming side along with quality streaming, the days of the $7.99 all you can stream plan are going away. The studios know Netflix has devalued their content to some degree which is why Netflix is going to have to pay larger fees to acquire content which in turn will cause Netflix to raise rates.

I would guess in ten years if Netflix is still around that it will be structured similar to the tier plans that it started with but with online content. If you want access to new releases and quality A list catalog titles I suspect you will be paying $30+/month for that option. If you are okay with Bollywood and TV shows from the 70s, 80s, 90s you will be fine at $10/month.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by CraigW

As far as BD inflated sales numbers... the last I checked also Apple wasn't willing to share actual numbers on how much revenue they are making by customers paying to buy movie content on iTunes. They might have shared a growth percentage but I think we all know what company is the elephant in the room when it comes to streaming and it has nothing to do with a worm riden fruit.

All of the 'pay-per-view' and 'digital sell-through' services are losing to Netflix.

But the reality of the situation as Netflix subscribers demand more A-list content on the streaming side along with quality streaming, the days of the $7.99 all you can stream plan are going away. The studios know Netflix has devalued their content to some degree which is why Netflix is going to have to pay larger fees to acquire content which in turn will cause Netflix to raise rates.

I would guess in ten years if Netflix is still around that it will be structured similar to the tier plans that it started with but with online content. If you want access to new releases and quality A list catalog titles I suspect you will be paying $30+/month for that option. If you are okay with Bollywood and TV shows from the 70s, 80s, 90s you will be fine at $10/month.

Agreed the $8 all you can stream price won't last forever if Netflix ever wants to make money. The more people cut the cord to cable/sat or cancel their premium channels like HBO, Showtime, etc the more the content providers will demand from Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, etc. The cost will have to get passed down to consumers as Netflix cannot continue to absorb this increased costs without charging more money. Most people don't realize this, but their disc by mail business was a cash cow and brings in more revenue/profit per customer than streaming does. As that business declines they will be forced to charge more for streaming.

We will see what happens, but the last time they raised prices it was bad news for their stock price and customers were not happy.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

Agreed the $8 all you can stream price won't last forever if Netflix ever wants to make money. The more people cut the cord to cable/sat or cancel their premium channels like HBO, Showtime, etc the more the content providers will demand from Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, etc. The cost will have to get passed down to consumers as Netflix cannot continue to absorb this increased costs without charging more money. Most people don't realize this, but their disc by mail business was a cash cow and brings in more revenue/profit per customer than streaming does. As that business declines they will be forced to charge more for streaming.

We will see what happens, but the last time they raised prices it was bad news for their stock price and customers were not happy.

yeah, that's why I mentioned earlier they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, the studios want to raise prices but the consumers have gotten so used to those $7.99 unlimited streaming prices that they're gonna find that they may not be making much money at ALL from streaming. Vudu and a few other rental streaming places do DECENT, but not great. streaming itself has become a fad balloon that is destined to pop.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by wormraper

yeah, that's why I mentioned earlier they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, the studios want to raise prices but the consumers have gotten so used to those $7.99 unlimited streaming prices that they're gonna find that they may not be making much money at ALL from streaming. Vudu and a few other rental streaming places do DECENT, but not great. streaming itself has become a fad balloon that is destined to pop.

You know if Vudu dropped their HDX prices to $3.99 I might be more inclined to use it. It saves me the time of having to go to the Redbox without a huge premium and I also have a much bigger selection. I just have a hard time with the standard $5.99 price. That's more than what it cost to rent a Blu-ray at Blockbuster before they collapsed.

I wonder if Vudu would be better served to drop the HD (720) option. That was nothing more than a stopgap to claim they had HD when Blu-ray and HD DVD were competing against them.

Still don't know how much I want to support a Wal-mart service though. I use my occassional free credits but in reality I have never paid for anything from them. Again I might support them if all HDX titles were $3.99 or less.