Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by cricepng

Sure if you have a fast enough connection you might be able to download a movie in a couple of hours, but in order to take that movie to a friend's house, you then have to take you player. I can easily grab a few discs and just pop them in a friend's BD player without requiring it be linked to my account or having to download again.

that is a good point too. aside from maybe using Netflix, who goes to a friend's house to watch a movie and downloads one? you usually take something you have that you think they will like or grab something from the video store(at least until Blockbuster started going the way of the dodo). and again, what happens if they don't have internet access? don't laugh, there are still people out there who are not wired up to the net.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by cricepng

The bits are potentially different in that a physical disc wouldn't require as much data compression. More bits should yield a superior visual product.

Sure if you have a fast enough connection you might be able to download a movie in a couple of hours, but in order to take that movie to a friend's house, you then have to take you player. I can easily grab a few discs and just pop them in a friend's BD player without requiring it be linked to my account or having to download again.

Notes from Sony for their Media Player.

2. The Sony FMP-X1 4K Ultra Media Player is exclusively compatible with Sony 4K Ultra HD TVs. Ethernet connection required. Fees may apply for Video Unlimited 4K service.

3. 2 Terabytes equals approximately 2000 Gigabytes. Not all memory is user accessible. Storage of 45 movies is based on average movie file size of approximately 38 GB per movie. Individual movie and video file sizes vary.

4. Download times will vary based on internet connection speed and bandwidth. Due to the large file size of videos in 4K Ultra HD, downloads may require several hours for completion. A broadband connection of at least 10Mbps is recommended for the best experience.

From the studio's perspective, they would much rather have your friend buy the movie based on your recommendation. Perhaps there will be a possibility of file sharing in the future, but I doubt it.


"Molyneux acknowledged that, while the fat files are a challenge, new compression technologies such as the High Efficiency Video Coding standard (HEVC) will help deliver 50 percent more compression (similar quality at half the bit-rate) than the H.264 standard used for video-on-demand. Using a rough yardstick, a 4K movie encoded in H.264 needs about 18-20 Mbps for downloading. HEVC can halve the bandwidth requirement and thus should help with the internet-based distribution of 4K video content, Molyneux said."

http://gigaom.com/2013/09/04/sony-be...nload-service/


"PALO ALTO, CALIF.—Sony has developed the FMP-X1 4K media player to provide 4K content for its 4K UltraHD TVs and to cope with streaming 4K’s high bandwidth demands, the company has licensed EyeIO’s UltraHD compression encoding technology. “With our system, we can compress 4K video by 50 to 75 percent without any visible loss of quality,” said Rodolfo Vargas, CEO of EyeIO, a Palo Alto, Calif.-based developer of video compression technology. EyeIO achieves this result by processing 4K video streams using a combination of 220 compression algorithms. Sony Pictures is expected to start 4K streaming of “Bad Teacher,” “Battle: Los Angeles,” “The Bridge on the River Kwai,” “The Karate Kid (2010),” “Salt,” “Taxi Driver,” “That’s My Boy,” “The Amazing Spider-Man,” “The Other Guys” and “Total Recall (2012)” this summer. - See more at: http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/008....bF5llFBA.dpuf

[Wendell R. Breland]

"The whole world is moving more and more to download."

It appears there are a lot of folks confused, streaming and downloading are two different animals. Netflix may get a lot of attention and press coverage but it is streaming service not a download service.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

And of course there will be no issues

You remind me of a defective 33⅓ LP.

I have seen the Sony 4K demo at Best Buy and I was very impressed with the color palette.

Why, you have proof that it is using Rec. 2020 and is not using Rec. 709 and H.264.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Others have reported downloads of about 2 hours. Gamer's have been dealing with this for years. Buy a BD from Amazon. The fastest your going to get it is next day, so what's the difference. And of course there will be no issues with missing or torn slipcovers, broken cases, loose disks, etc. etc. which some people go on about for hours on some of the threads found on this forum.

The difference is some people having bandwith caps on their internet service, resulting in additional charges, and having their internet access bottlenecked, limiting other uses while the movie download is in progress. And the 2 hour download time is probably a best case scenario. I'd rather wait for an Amazon shipment or go to a B&M store than deal with that.

Also people complain about torn slipcovers, cracked cases, etc. because they like these things and are at least somewhat passionate about them. Someone who, for example, doesn't care about slipcovers in the first place probably isn't going to complain when one is damaged... they'll just throw it out.

Saying that not having these things and going digital solves the problem is absurd. The people who are most passionate about physical media are the ones concerned about these things.

I guess next people who hate when home appliances and plumbing items need maintainence and/or replacement from time to time (whether they rent and have to wait for someone else to take care of it, or own and are responsible for it themselves) just shouldn't have a stove, a toilet, air conditioning... or maybe they should just consider being homeless to avoid these issues entirely.

Honestly as on the fence over 4k as I am, I'm FAR more likely to adopt a new phyical format than I am to shift over to downloads. If the only options for buying movies in 4k ends up being download based, then I'll just stick with 1080p Blu-Ray and even DVD for however long they last.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

The difference is some people having bandwith caps on their internet service, resulting in additional charges, and having their internet access bottlenecked, limiting other uses while the movie download is in progress. And the 2 hour download time is probably a best case scenario. I'd rather wait for an Amazon shipment or go to a B&M store than deal with that.

Also people complain about torn slipcovers, cracked cases, etc. because they like these things and are at least somewhat passionate about them. Someone who, for example, doesn't care about slipcovers in the first place probably isn't going to complain when one is damaged... they'll just throw it out.

Saying that not having these things and going digital solves the problem is absurd. The people who are most passionate about physical media are the ones concerned about these things.

I guess next people who hate when home appliances and plumbing items need maintainence and/or replacement from time to time (whether they rent and have to wait for someone else to take care of it, or own and are responsible for it themselves) just shouldn't have a stove, a toilet, air conditioning... or maybe they should just consider being homeless to avoid these issues entirely.

Honestly as on the fence over 4k as I am, I'm FAR more likely to adopt a new phyical format than I am to shift over to downloads. If the only options for buying movies in 4k ends up being download based, then I'll just stick with 1080p Blu-Ray and even DVD for however long they last.

Well, feel free to hang on to and fondle your BDs from time to time. I know people who have VHS players and are still happy playing their old cassettes.

TV Guide data is automatically downloaded to my Bravia via the internet overnight. I give it no thought. Selecting movies for download overnight won't bother me either.

How about this for an answer to ISP broadband issues:

Sony ISP launches world's fastest home Internet, 2Gbps

http://www.pcworld.com/article/20346...net-2gbps.html

The logical place to stop the resolution progression is at 8K. 4K is just a step along the way. At some point a break from physical media needs to happen.

I suppose you could wait for the BDA to come up with an 8K disc spec.

I haven't seen 8K yet, but this review of an 8K broadcast last year sounds pretty impressive.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/31/s...ision-eyes-on/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

The logical place to stop the resolution progression is at 8K...

Humans are capable of seeing at a higher spatial resolution than 8K.

I say, go to the limit....in due course.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Humans are capable of seeing at a higher spatial resolution than 8K.

I say, go to the limit....in due course.

That's the spirit! I think 8K is a reasonable practical limit for the average home theater.

[Youngbus46]

Blu-ray will be my last physical format as well. i have spent a long time and money on upgrading my DVD collection to blu ray and now i have replaced all my dvds with blu-ray i am content. The only dvds i own now are tv shows and cartoons not available on Blu-ray. i watch my films on a 100" screen and to my eyes Blu-ray looks pretty damn good. i also have a 60" Panasonic plasma i use for SD content and gaming. i am satisfied with Blu-ray and don't think i will ever upgrade to 4k.

[Grand Bob]

I am fairly happy with Blu-ray, but will not make the same mistake with 4K that I have made with every other format since VHS. With perhaps the exception of a few titles, I will wait an extensive period of time and wait for relatively inexpensive prices on 4K movies before buying them.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Fat lot of good that will be to people on poor/intermittently faulty broadband. Let's see those shiny discs.

Nevertheless, digital distribution is growing at nearly twice the rate of Blu-ray.

Blu-ray sales were 28.5 percent higher in the first quarter of this year than a year ago.

Spending on digital distribution jumped 26 percent from quarter to quarter, but when you factor out rentals, digital sell-through—via a la carte services such as Amazon Instant Video, iTunes, and Vudu—was up 51 percent, according to the group

"The Blu-ray gains were largely offset by declining sales of standard DVDs, though; when DVD and Blu-ray sales are combined, the total spending on physical discs was up only 2 percent in the quarter.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...-yet/index.htm

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Nevertheless, digital distribution is growing at nearly twice the rate of Blu-ray.

Blu-ray sales were 28.5 percent higher in the first quarter of this year than a year ago.

Spending on digital distribution jumped 26 percent from quarter to quarter, but when you factor out rentals, digital sell-through—via a la carte services such as Amazon Instant Video, iTunes, and Vudu—was up 51 percent, according to the group

"The Blu-ray gains were largely offset by declining sales of standard DVDs, though; when DVD and Blu-ray sales are combined, the total spending on physical discs was up only 2 percent in the quarter.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...-yet/index.htm

Actual dollars? Far more lucrative from bluray I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Well, feel free to hang on to and fondle your BDs from time to time. I know people who have VHS players and are still happy playing their old cassettes.

TV Guide data is automatically downloaded to my Bravia via the internet overnight. I give it no thought. Selecting movies for download overnight won't bother me either.

How about this for an answer to ISP broadband issues:

Sony ISP launches world's fastest home Internet, 2Gbps

http://www.pcworld.com/article/20346...net-2gbps.html

The logical place to stop the resolution progression is at 8K. 4K is just a step along the way. At some point a break from physical media needs to happen.

I suppose you could wait for the BDA to come up with an 8K disc spec.

I haven't seen 8K yet, but this review of an 8K broadcast last year sounds pretty impressive.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/31/s...ision-eyes-on/

VHS is an outdated antique with IMO poor picture quality. Bluray is a state of the art medium that allows fantastic AV quality even on large screens. There is nothing to compare with streaming wise so I guess I will be fondling away for many years to come.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Actual dollars? Far more lucrative from bluray I believe.

That is correct. AFAIK, there is no separation of SD vs HD EST sales data so saying EST has a higher YoY sales increase is purely a strawman argument. Posting only percentages shows a complete lack of understanding sales data. Have already posted that you need all the data to tell the whole story here.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Its all bits and bytes whether it is on an optical disc or downloaded overnight from Sony's 4K site. Are you saying that the quality off the hard drive will be inferior to quality off the disc?

I’m saying that despite what any vested company men (or women) may tell you (or, omit in public statements), there is far less of an incentive for content providers to compress physical media deliverables as compared to that of either download or streaming delivery and this is important ( https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...nt#post7832398 ) when the visual difference between native (‘raw’) 4K resolution and native 1080p resolution is really not that great to begin with.

Not to mention just decreasing overall file size by skimping on extras, etc. when utilizing non-physical media deliverable solutions.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

That is correct. AFAIK, there is no separation of SD vs HD EST sales data so saying EST has a higher YoY sales increase is purely a strawman argument. Posting only percentages shows a complete lack of understanding sales data. Have already posted that you need all the data to tell the whole story here.

Thanks man

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Actual dollars? Far more lucrative from bluray I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

Yes, real dollars. From the DEG report:

"Blu-ray Disc sales were up 15% over the first half of 2012, with new-release Blu-ray product sales up 19%. Blu-ray catalog product sales were up more than 8%.

Overall digital revenue in the first half of the year was up more than 24% to more than $3 billion, with EST revenue up more than 50%, DEG reported, crediting the increase to convenient access to digital collections and greater availability of digital at retail."

Just in case there is any question about the definition of EST:

"Electronic Sell-Through (EST) describes a method of media distribution whereby consumers pay a one-time fee to download a media file for storage on a hard drive.[1] Although EST is often described as a transaction that grants content "ownership" to the consumer, the content may become unusable after a certain period and may not be viewable using competing platforms.[2] EST is a key revenue stream for a wide array of digital media products, including film/television/video content, music, gaming, and mobile applications. The term is sometimes used interchangeably with the similarly-defined terms Download To Own (DTO).

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Yes, real dollars. From the DEG report:

"Blu-ray Disc sales were up 15% over the first half of 2012, with new-release Blu-ray product sales up 19%. Blu-ray catalog product sales were up more than 8%.

Overall digital revenue in the first half of the year was up more than 24% to more than $3 billion, with EST revenue up more than 50%, DEG reported, crediting the increase to convenient access to digital collections and greater availability of digital at retail."

Just in case there is any question about the definition of EST:

"Electronic Sell-Through (EST) describes a method of media distribution whereby consumers pay a one-time fee to download a media file for storage on a hard drive.[1] Although EST is often described as a transaction that grants content "ownership" to the consumer, the content may become unusable after a certain period and may not be viewable using competing platforms.[2] EST is a key revenue stream for a wide array of digital media products, including film/television/video content, music, gaming, and mobile applications. The term is sometimes used interchangeably with the similarly-defined terms Download To Own (DTO).

I will reserve judgement thanks

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I will reserve judgement thanks

I understand. Blu-ray disc sales were at a little over $2 Billion for 2011 http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaud...-time-in-2011/ or about 26% of DVD and BD combined sales of $8.9 Billion. So, given an increase of 15% that gets you to around $2.5 billion for BD compared to (edit) digital at $3 Billion which includes EST which grew 51% compared to the prior year. (edit) I say the differential in growth rate between digital download (EST) and BD doesn't bode well for BD.

Also:

"Dwindling sales. So just how bad do projections of Blu-ray disc sales look over the next five years?

Preliminary 2011 sales numbers for overall DVD and Blu-ray Disc sales are estimated at $8.9 billion, with a projected drop to $5.5 billion by 2016, for a loss of $3.4 billion in annual revenues.

Disc rentals were at $4.8 billion in 2011 and are also projected to fall by 2016, to $2.9 billion annually.

In all, this means that disc sales and rentals will yield $8.4 billion in annual revenues by 2016.

The surge in streaming delivery of premium content, on the other hand, is expected to grow $3.9 billion between 2011 and 2016, yielding $6.7 billion in annual revenues.

Sometime in 2017, then, revenues from streaming media delivery of premium content will exceed physical disc sales and rentals. Also, in less than a year, sometime in 2013, the number of streaming minutes for premium content will exceed the number of minutes viewed on DVD and Blu-ray Discs.

There's a chance that the cross-over point will happen much faster than that. If Blu-ray disc sales begin to drop off between the 2012 and 2013 holiday seasons, studios will be placed in a financial predicament, where day-and-date releases to DVD and Blu-ray will yield much lower sales than equivalent streaming revenues. The cost of physical disc production and distribution, coupled with more limited retail shelf space, may force studios to abandon optical discs more quickly than anticipated

http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articl...ing-84621.aspx

The handwriting is on the wall.

[Steedeel]

They haven't dropped off. They have been strong for last month and only going to get stronger.